Low RPM Sputtering

Truth

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Hello all. I recently bought my first nice bike, (first nice anything really). 2006 FZ6 4,000 miles, with a couple add ons. Scorpion pipe, belly pan, tail kit, and so on.

My question is, I noticed on low RPM in low gear it will sputter, and hesitate a bit. And during engine braking I can hear it popping out the tail pipe. Do these bikes need to have the injection re-mapped when they're piped? I only ask because I got the bike piped, and can't be sure if it was done. Otherwise I'm thinking throttle body sync or TPS? Any ideas would be much appreciated, thank you.
 

wolfe1down

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I have an '05 with a Leo Vince exhaust and it sometimes idles rough or 'surges' when at idle. It will also pop when up-shifting hard and will sometimes do it on the downshifts. This is correctable by:

1. Getting an air/fuel controller (ie. juice box, power commander, etc.),
2. Adjusting your idle set screw (underneath the left hand side of the gas tank, near the front - you can search this, a useful thread was just made awhile back), or
3. Syncing your throttle bodies (requires an ~$100 tool; Fred, a member on here has a great video for how to do this)

Hope this helps.
 

Nelly

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There is tons of info on the site re after market pipes. The Google search function is the best one to use.
Good luck.
Nelly:thumbup:
PS an English member installed leo's and K&N filter that produced rough running.
He switched back to the stock filter and it [the running] improved some what.
 

vrtulnik

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Hi all,

I have problem with sputtering at low RPM (idle rpm). I read a lot of topics about this problem but i am at the end with ideas where can be problem.

It is FZ6 S2 2008 with stock exhaust

I did "bigger" service in March (1 300 km ago)
- new spark plugs (NGK CR9EK)
- new 1 cable from coil to spark plug
- new oil + filter.

After 1 300 km started my problem with sputtering at low rpm.

So, i started inspect:
- i dissasbled spark plugs with coils - I measured everything with multimeter. Both Coils and cables have resistance according service manual. - Spark plugs have resistance as stated by the manufacturer. Everything good seems to be here.
- I took out fuel pump. Filter was little dirty (I cleaned this filter 1 year ago), but I don't think there will be a problem, because problem is only in low rpm.
- I tried measure TPS values. Values were 20 and 101. I adjusted TPS to 17-98. But resistance was not according service manual, every resistance was out of specs with big differences between my values and values in service manual.
- Okay, I bought new TPS and adjust on 18-98.
- Fuel injectors are tested and cleaned - there is no problem.
- Idle speed was adjusted on 1200 - 1300 rpm
- I checked (only by eye) every hose, without problems and damages.
- I checked every point in Diag mode - solenoid valve, coils (I listened them), injector relays...
- I checked temperature on exhaust pipes. Every pipe is hot.

After changed TPS sensor and cleaned injectors bike better responds on gas. However, problem still persists...

In high rpm bike runs without problems!!


I have ordered gauges for TB sync, this is my last idea where could be the problem.


Have anybody any idea or had anybody the same problem?



Thanky you.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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I'm not sure what "sputtering" is.. Maybe a misfire? Please elaborate if you can.

Perhaps post a video (with audio of course) could help us..

In any event, yes a throttle body sync can only help.

.
 

vrtulnik

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I'm not sure what "sputtering" is.. Maybe a misfire? Please elaborate if you can.

Perhaps post a video (with audio of course) could help us..

In any event, yes a throttle body sync can only help.

.

Video:

Bike with active choke (until 53 degrees of Celcius) is going on 1 500 rpm, without sputtering. After exceeded 53 degrees when choke is off, start sputtering.

I have problem during start-up on 1st gear and when suddenly increase rpm from low - approx. 2 000 rpm during driving on another gears.


Thank you.
 

vrtulnik

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Sounds like one cylinder intermediately firing..

Do you have access to a laser temp gun to check temps (exactly) on the header?

How many miles on the bike & if many, were the valves checked?

.

Do you mean measure temperature on exhaust pipes, near motor outlet? I will try measure it tomorrow with laser temp gun.

Bike has 46 000 km, I made about 10 000 km (from purchase to now) and I never checked valves... I don't know if they were ever checked...

It is true that I hear ticking from purchase. But if is problem in valves i would feel sputtering also in higher rpm, or no?

Today I was try it.. Interesting thing is that in higher temperature (80 C) was not sputtering at the idle, not even during take-off run on 1st gear., but i felt a jerk slightly sometimes.


I measured battery. It is older battery (minimum 4 years), but seems good.

- Voltage when key is turned off is 12.7 V
- Voltage in idle speed fluctuates between 12.8 - 13.7 V, because rpm fluctuates too...
- Voltage in 3000 rpm is 13.7 V
 
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TownsendsFJR1300

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Yes, temp taken on the header as it exits the engine...

Battery / charging voltages sound good..

Re the valve check, your a bit over for a check/adjustment and that should be done anyway.

I'm wondering if you got some water/moisture in your fuel.. I don't think you have E fuel over, correct?

.
 

vrtulnik

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Yes, temp taken on the header as it exits the engine...

Battery / charging voltages sound good..

Re the valve check, your a bit over for a check/adjustment and that should be done anyway.

I'm wondering if you got some water/moisture in your fuel.. I don't think you have E fuel over, correct?

.

I can record video with measuring voltage on battery.

I changed completely "old" fuel for new fuel... and without changes.
 

vrtulnik

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Are there any diagnostic codes? Have you checked to make sure there isn’t a bad electric connection at the injector?


No, there are not diagnostic codes - everything is okay. Injector conectors seems okay, because i had all 4 disconected.


Yes, temp taken on the header as it exits the engine...

Battery / charging voltages sound good..

Re the valve check, your a bit over for a check/adjustment and that should be done anyway.

I'm wondering if you got some water/moisture in your fuel.. I don't think you have E fuel over, correct?

.

I measured pipe temps and I found that 1st cylinder has lower temp like another cylinders... It is little hard measure exact values of temps, because my thermometer is until 220 C.

#2 #3 #4 cylinders have more that 220 C.. #1 cylinder has max 170 C.. it depends on surface of the pipe, because where is rust, temp is lower, but temp was not higher like 170 C (temp of cooling was 90-100 C)

After turned off bike, 1st cylinder has big different temp like another 3 cylinders... Please see video.



What have I do now? It is like bad spark plug, because coils, coil wires with spark caps are good - resp. resistance is according service manual.
I can measure again everything.


Video. temps measured 30 sec after turned off motor:
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Yep, looks like #1 is your issue..

You need spark, compression and fuel. We think you have fuel and spark

We don't know the compression value of #1 compared to the rest.
I would do a compression test for the entire engine. If #1 is indeed low,
a "leak down" test will help pin point the issue..

Again, checking the valves should be done. A leaking valve can get burnt and cause all kind
of bad issues... Checking it just takes some time. Adjusting, a bit more involved.

.
 

vrtulnik

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Yep, looks like #1 is your issue..

You need spark, compression and fuel. We think you have fuel and spark

We don't know the compression value of #1 compared to the rest.
I would do a compression test for the entire engine. If #1 is indeed low,
a "leak down" test will help pin point the issue..

Again, checking the valves should be done. A leaking valve can get burnt and cause all kind
of bad issues... Checking it just takes some time. Adjusting, a bit more involved.

.

First I will try change spark plugs from #1 to #2 and i will see whether it is not bad spark plug, even if is new.

I have scales for measure valve clearances, bigger problem is with adjusting. Do you know about any video or thread here on the forum?

I saw few videos on youtube (Calvin MC), but there is not explained about adjusting valves.

And compression too, is it possible make compression test at home with gauges?

Thank you very much.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Compression tester at home, no...

There are many threads here on adjusting valves, in great detail.

Do a search and read the shop manual.

Note, the Yamaha shop manual
has you turning the crankshaft COUNTER CLOCKWISE, it SHOULD be CLOCKWISE.


PM sent..
 

vrtulnik

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Compression tester at home, no...

There are many threads here on adjusting valves, in great detail.

Do a search and read the shop manual.

Note, the Yamaha shop manual
has you turning the crankshaft COUNTER CLOCKWISE, it SHOULD be CLOCKWISE.


PM sent..

I tried change spark plug from #1 to #2, without results.... Cylinders #1 and #2 have lower temp like cylinders #3 and #4.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Lower temps on adjacent cylinders could be a head gasket failure in-between adjacent cylinders.
A head gasket failure is extremely rare on the FZ (I never heard of one on this forum) however a leak down test should find this.

You need to get some basic engine health perimeters checked..

.
 

vrtulnik

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Lower temps on adjacent cylinders could be a head gasket failure in-between adjacent cylinders.
A head gasket failure is extremely rare on the FZ (I never heard of one on this forum) however a leak down test should find this.

You need to get some basic engine health perimeters checked..

.

I am thinking about one step, because i read about coils, resp. about bad contact coil wires with spark plug caps.

Is it possible change coils between each other? Coil for cylinders #1 and #4 will be for #2 and #3.
I measured coils, wires and caps, resitance could be good, but contact between wire and cap can be bad and arises arc there.
So, when contact or coil is bad, after change coils will be bad also cylinder #2 and #3.


EDIT: I dissabled again coils and measured. I measured coil for #1 and #4 cylinder.
- spark plug caps = 10 kohm -- it is okay.
- Secondary coil = 15 kohm = it is okay
- Primary coil = 2.1-2.2 ohm = maximum is 2.07 ohm in service manual, so i don't know whether is okay or not.
 
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trepetti

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I am thinking about one step, because i read about coils, resp. about bad contact coil wires with spark plug caps.

Is it possible change coils between each other? Coil for cylinders #1 and #4 will be for #2 and #3.
I measured coils, wires and caps, resitance could be good, but contact between wire and cap can be bad and arises arc there.
So, when contact or coil is bad, after change coils will be bad also cylinder #2 and #3.


EDIT: I dissabled again coils and measured. I measured coil for #1 and #4 cylinder.
- spark plug caps = 10 kohm -- it is okay.
- Secondary coil = 15 kohm = it is okay
- Primary coil = 2.1-2.2 ohm = maximum is 2.07 ohm in service manual, so i don't know whether is okay or not.

The coils are the same, except for the lengths of the leads, but for testing you can certainly swap them with 1-4 moving to 2-3 as you mentioned.

You could also swap the leads on a coil, so yo can use the #1 lead on the #4 plug etc. I would start here. swapping 1 and 4. If the problem moves then it is coil or wire, if it doesn't then it is the cylinder itself.....

I am perplexed by
 
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