Need Help 2007 FZ6 S2 Fazer Severe Loss of Power ( galloping ) 9k RPM upwards

[Si1973]

Hi All,
This is my first post, I'm new to the forum.
Desperate for advice please.
I have a 2007 FZ6 S2 Fazer, 23k miles, completely stock except for K&N.
Had the bike 2 years from 10k miles and it's been a dream until about a month ago.
As soon as it comes out the other side of the familiar mid range flat spot, right when you're expecting that lovely power from 10k onwards, at anything over half throttle it just lurches all over the place and cannot redline anymore.
Otherwise, idles as they do, low to mid rpm as they are, returns high 50's to low 60's mpg, starts on the button, no complaints.
But now it's no fun whatsoever and I'm gutted.
Today I had the plugs out and they were all in good condition and I just nipped the gaps down to spec. Except for cylinder 4 which was rusty around the seat and the washer. I assumed a water leak past the coil boot and the plug was also quite loose, so I cleaned up the sealing surfaces and put back in.
Started and ran smoother, but still this rubbish situation high up.
I had hoped it was that plug causing that cylinder to lose compression, but obviously not.
Really don't know where to go next.
Any ideas, at my temper's end with her at the moment.

Thanks,
Simon

 

[trepetti]

Hi All,
This is my first post, I'm new to the forum.
Desperate for advice please.
I have a 2007 FZ6 S2 Fazer, 23k miles, completely stock except for K&N.
Had the bike 2 years from 10k miles and it's been a dream until about a month ago.
As soon as it comes out the other side of the familiar mid range flat spot, right when you're expecting that lovely power from 10k onwards, at anything over half throttle it just lurches all over the place and cannot redline anymore.
Otherwise, idles as they do, low to mid rpm as they are, returns high 50's to low 60's mpg, starts on the button, no complaints.
But now it's no fun whatsoever and I'm gutted.
Today I had the plugs out and they were all in good condition and I just nipped the gaps down to spec. Except for cylinder 4 which was rusty around the seat and the washer. I assumed a water leak past the coil boot and the plug was also quite loose, so I cleaned up the sealing surfaces and put back in.
Started and ran smoother, but still this rubbish situation high up.
I had hoped it was that plug causing that cylinder to lose compression, but obviously not.
Really don't know where to go next.
Any ideas, at my temper's end with her at the moment.

Thanks,
Simon

The kill switch is a common weak part on the bike. It is not uncommon for it to become dirty, and one of those symptoms is a big impact on power at high rpm. This is caused by the high frequency vibrations of the upper revs.

To test, you can use a wire to jump the switch closed. Or you can just disassemble and clean the switch.

There are lots of threads on the forum about this. Do a search and see if that helps

 

[Si1973]

The kill switch is a common weak part on the bike. It is not uncommon for it to become dirty, and one of those symptoms is a big impact on power at high rpm. This is caused by the high frequency vibrations of the upper revs.

To test, you can use a wire to jump the switch closed. Or you can just disassemble and clean the switch.

There are lots of threads on the forum about this. Do a search and see if that helps

Thanks very much for the reply.
I will certainly have a look at that and investigate.
I was going towards fuel starvation next, and valve clearances, then fuel pump/filter problems. Do you know if the fuel filter is replaceable on these?
I can't find just the gauze part anywhere and everyone just says it's part of the pump.
But even with my other avenues above, I think they would all give generally bad running across the board, correct? Not just at the high rpm party zone.
Is it a big job to clean up the kill switch?
Thanks again, Simon.

 

[trepetti]

Thanks very much for the reply.
I will certainly have a look at that and investigate.
I was going towards fuel starvation next, and valve clearances, then fuel pump/filter problems. Do you know if the fuel filter is replaceable on these?
I can't find just the gauze part anywhere and everyone just says it's part of the pump.
But even with my other avenues above, I think they would all give generally bad running across the board, correct? Not just at the high rpm party zone.
Is it a big job to clean up the kill switch?
Thanks again, Simon.

Before you get too deep into a teardown, ALWAYS start with the most probable. https://www.600riders.com/threads/the-kill-switch-problem.58255/

I rebuilt mine a few years ago using the link above as a guide simply because I knew it was a question of WHEN, not IF the switch became a problem. It is not too difficult. Just make sure you move slowly and don't lose the ball and springs. Get some dielectric grease and apply it liberally as you assemble.

A plugged fuel filter is another possibility if you see rust and other crud on the inside of the tank. The screen is not replaceable, but usually a thorough cleaning will free it up.

Valve clearances are not a primary cause of your issues. You are near due for that, but it is a big job that will take you a day.

Another kill switch cure is to simply jump it permanently. Lots of other members have done that and argue that a secondary kill is not needed for these modern bikes. In the event of a down, the Tip Over Sensor will kill the engine. But I am a bit or a purist. If I have a switch, I want it to work.

Good luck and make sure you post up your progress.

 

[Gary in NJ]

Yes, check the switch. It’s easy and a known failure point that can cause all sorts of strange issues.

The in-tank fuel filter is also prone to clogging and should be inspected after you confirm the condition of the switch.

 

[Si1973]

Thanks very much both of you.
How easy is the permanent bridge for the switch please?
Because I read that you have to take all the airbox off to get to the connector where the bridge can be made?
Is this true, or is there a much simpler way?
And how difficult is the fuel filter clean up, has anyone posted instructions do you know?
Thanks again, and sorry for so many questions.
Cheers,
Simon

 

[Si1973]

Update....
So I rode to work this morning ( 45 miles, mostly dual carriageway ), the bike seems to be a lot smoother starting, idling and again up to the power band. Through 1st, 2nd and 3rd the problem is not so pronounced, but 4th, 5th and 6th forget it. Anything over half throttle and it's still all over the place. Also this morning I noticed the lurching starts even before the power band whilst on 3/4 to full throttle, worse on uphill stretches.
This is why I feel it's fuelling rather than the kill switch vibration, it just feels as if its being starved.
I've run the diagnostic check on the TPS and it reads 16 closed and 103 full open. I think that's ok?, and it reads every digit between, so not jumping.
Can the TPS become out of sync with the cable? I did adjust the cable a month back to take up the 2 or 3mm slack before throttle kicks in.
I'm running some good fuel system cleaner at high dose through to try that, with some more coming today.
But I fear, the weekend will be taking the tank off and trying to clean it out and the fuel filter.
Blew back through the tank breather hoses this morning and all clear.
Any other hoses I should check and where are they?
Someone else said maybe a vacuum pipe leak or kinked somewhere? But I don't really know which pipes I am looking for.
I also fitted a gear indicator 2 years ago and it works lovely, maybe one of the splices I did on that could cause it?
Crank position sensor joint maybe?
Basically I'm convinced it's fuelling or vacuum leak, because it feels like a little split is opening up under full load or something like that.
So annoying.

Any further advice on my thoughts above would be awesome

Thanks,
Simon

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Change out the spark plugs for S & G's. Their cheap enough.

What your describing now, is under LOAD, is when it's acting up..

Basic's FIRST...

Re by-passing the RED KILL switch. You don't have to get uner the fuel tank, just to the switch on the handle bar. Tie both leads together, seal it up, button it up, done..

*Question, do/did you use that RED kill switch often or regularly?

 

[Si1973]

Used it

Change out the spark plugs for S & G's. Their cheap enough.

What your describing now, is under LOAD, is when it's acting up..

Basic's FIRST...

Re by-passing the RED KILL switch. You don't have to get uner the fuel tank, just to the switch on the handle bar. Tie both leads together, seal it up, button it up, done..

*Question, do/did you use that RED kill switch often or regularly?

Change out the spark plugs for S & G's. Their cheap enough.

What your describing now, is under LOAD, is when it's acting up..

Basic's FIRST...

Re by-passing the RED KILL switch. You don't have to get uner the fuel tank, just to the switch on the handle bar. Tie both leads together, seal it up, button it up, done..

*Question, do/did you use that RED kill switch often or regularly?

S and G?
Sorry. Newb.
Was thinking of the Iridium set NGK.
Any experience?

Kill switch only used by accident.
Very very rarely.
Good to hear the bypass is simple.
Think I'll do it anyway, waste of time it being there if not used and will eventually go wrong anyway.

Plugs weren't in bad condition and re-gapped which has smoothened her.
But you think just go ahead and replace?

I'm going to take the air box off and check the vacuum hoses too, because I just found a thread where someone's cracked on one cylinder and they had similar issues.

What's this about ECU "reset" by disconnecting battery for a while and apparently it "re-learns" settings ?

I did have a PC5 on it for a while but couldn't accept the drop in mpg so sold it. But that was a year ago and this only started 2 months ago max. So I'm not thinking any ECU "teachings" left from that.

Will have tank off at the weekend I think too.
Any advice on how to clean out and how to clean the fuel filter?
Someone said the little gauze filter can be removed carefully.

Cheers again,
Simon

 

[Gary in NJ]

Clean the screen with brake cleaner.

You seem to be going in many directions all at once. That is the worst way to diagnose a problem. Address the STOP switch. If that doesn't solve the problem, then move onto the fuel filter. Those are the two known issues with the FZ6. If the problem persists then there are logical tests and measurements that will provide actual information. Just swapping parts is a fools way of chasing down a problem.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Used it



S and G?
Sorry. Newb.
Was thinking of the Iridium set NGK.
Any experience?

Plugs weren't in bad condition and re-gapped which has smoothened her.
But you think just go ahead and replace?

S&G's = $hits and Giggles..

Your overdue for plugs and being re-gapping did help, it's basic maintainance.
I replaced mine with Iridiums years ago and hasn't touched them since (32,000 miles on the clock now). Spark plugs, when worn and UNDER LOAD, is when they'll act up..

Checking hoses won't hurt but a vacuum leak like that is usually all over the RPM range.

 

[Si1973]

Kill switch bypassed.
As far as I have read, its not an MOT check, fingers crossed.
Will ride and see if improved tonight.
Is it also worth bypassing the stand kill switch?
Any others?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Kill switch bypassed.
As far as I have read, its not an MOT check, fingers crossed.
Will ride and see if improved tonight.
Is it also worth bypassing the stand kill switch?
Any others?

The side stand switch is a rare failure.

Just do one "fix/mod" at a time to find the issue..

 

[Si1973]

Update.
Rode tonight and problem still there.
Lifted tank to check for kinks in fuel line and all other hoses you can see without airbox removal. All fine.
Put some more Seafoam in gave it a GOOD shake.
Took out again for 20 miles sitting high revs but no throttle to try and blow through.
Opened her up and the problem seems to be coming down the rev range now.

Tank off next and try to get filter out.

Used to love this bike.

 

[trepetti]

Update.
Rode tonight and problem still there.
Lifted tank to check for kinks in fuel line and all other hoses you can see without airbox removal. All fine.
Put some more Seafoam in gave it a GOOD shake.
Took out again for 20 miles sitting high revs but no throttle to try and blow through.
Opened her up and the problem seems to be coming down the rev range now.

Tank off next and try to get filter out.

Used to love this bike.

Good luck and remember... love is 'for better and for worse'

 

[Si1973]

Tank off and drained.
Top half pump off can see filter.
Not very dirty.

 

[Si1973]

Update...
Drained tank and took the pump out.
Filter not dirty at all.
Put back together.
Ran for a bit.
Now it won't even fire.
Plenty of fuel in the tank.
Don't know what to do now.
Can't take it to a garage.

It's buggered

 

[trepetti]

Update...
Drained tank and took the pump out.
Filter not dirty at all.
Put back together.
Ran for a bit.
Now it won't even fire.
Plenty of fuel in the tank.
Don't know what to do now.
Can't take it to a garage.

It's buggered

Easy now..... More info please. Does the fuel pump prime when you turn the key on? Are you certain that the kill switch is in the run position? Does it crank? Remember that it will only crank if it is in Neutral or the clutch lever is pulled in AND the side-stand is up.

It ran before, so retrace your steps and make sure you reassembled all the things you took apart. Are the 2 electrical connectors installed?

 

[Si1973]

Easy now..... More info please. Does the fuel pump prime when you turn the key on? Are you certain that the kill switch is in the run position? Does it crank? Remember that it will only crank if it is in Neutral or the clutch lever is pulled in AND the side-stand is up.

It ran before, so retrace your steps and make sure you reassembled all the things you took apart. Are the 2 electrical connectors installed?

Hi,
Thanks for reply.
I'm going to find a garage that will come collect the thing and fix it.
It's too much for me and I'm not bad mechanically, I service my cars.

I bypassed the kill switch so yes, that's off.
Yes the pump primes.
Its on the centre stand and its in neutral.
It ran for a bit and then just died.
Yes it cranks, just won't fire.
Now won't start at all.
Plenty of fresh fuel in it
I read that someone else had a trouble with that little o-ring in the pump on the outlet line joint. But I don't know where it's supposed to sit, ie around the top outlet pipe before it goes back together, or inserted into the groove on the bottom side.
This is why it's all too much now.
Getting it all apart again is a pain.
Garage will just have the right kit to measure pressures etc....
It will cost me, but I can't do it.

 

[trepetti]

Hi,
Thanks for reply.
I'm going to find a garage that will come collect the thing and fix it.
It's too much for me and I'm not bad mechanically, I service my cars.

I bypassed the kill switch so yes, that's off.
Yes the pump primes.
Its on the centre stand and its in neutral.
It ran for a bit and then just died.
Yes it cranks, just won't fire.
Now won't start at all.
Plenty of fresh fuel in it
I read that someone else had a trouble with that little o-ring in the pump on the outlet line joint. But I don't know where it's supposed to sit, ie around the top outlet pipe before it goes back together, or inserted into the groove on the bottom side.
This is why it's all too much now.
Getting it all apart again is a pain.
Garage will just have the right kit to measure pressures etc....
It will cost me, but I can't do it.

Understood and good luck. Make sure you find a reputable shop.