Autotune is throwing code 43 and 46 and causing pump to prime continuously.

[foxhounddown]

When I have my autotune connected to my power commander v, the fuel pump continues to prime. It starts throwing code 43 and 46. I've tried different combinations and it always does this as soon as I connect the autotune.

It's really odd because it never did that beforehand. Is it possible my autotune is faulty? I tried reconnecting the autotune power supply and ground at different parts of my motorcycle but the end result is the same. When the PCV is by itself it works fine. I should also mention that the fuel ignition fuse had blown. Just really odd things all at once.

When the autotune is connected I get a low voltage on the diagnostic interface (do9) for the battery voltage. It'll read around 9 volts on the diagnostic when in reality the battery is ~12.5v and the charging system is working functionally when I check the battery with a multimeter

 

[Motogiro]

It sounds like there is a voltage drop because of a very low resistance or short. The wires in the harness may be heating when this low resistance condition exists. Eventually the fuse blows. It sounds like the autotune may be defective if the condition only exist when it is in circuit. I would take the unit back and not use it. Maybe contact Dynojet for support. Good luck!

 

[FinalImpact]

Where exactly did you tap into for power?

When switched on, the wideband o2 sensor has to heat up for it to output accurate data. If the power souce is unable to supply the current needed there will be a loss of voltage. You could unplug the o2 sensor to see if its the heating action which cripples it or for test, run it off the battery for a moment to see if it operates correctly.

Fwiw the Bazzaz camp suggested i tap power from the tail lamp wire, downstream of the 10A fuse. I dont relish the thought of walking and using ONE FUSE for tail lamp and fuel controller data logger seemed lame. So i added it this piggy back fuse holder here... The Z-AFM is like your Autotune with a wideband o2 sensor. Take a look here.

Fuel Management: Don't follow the directions verbatim.
Reliability is important so I wrote the manufacture and asked about the Fuse rating requirement for the fuel controller & logger. The instructions state to Clamp on to the "TAIL LAMP CIRCUIT" downstream of the 10A fuse to power the Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller (FC) & Z-AFM data logger.

Guess what size the manufacture suggests? A 10A fuse! BAZZAZ - this is STUPID! If I follow your directions and brake light circuit pops the fuse, my engine dies and I am at ask risk!! Relying on the BRAKE FUSE to power the FC (ah - fuel injectors), that's just STUPID!

Folks, don't follow everything to the letter from Manufactures. This clearly needs its OWN fuse from a switched source. :thumbup:

Taillight fuse 10.0 A (OEM)
Fuel injection system fuse 10.0 A (OEM)
Bazzaz FC Fuse 10.0 A (Add on)

To power this mess!!!

 

[foxhounddown]

Ah that makes perfect sense. I had it tapped into the blue wire for the taillight like it's suggested in the install manual. I tried plugging the power directly to the battery so that it wouldn't drop the voltage elsewhere but the same condition occurred. I'll try powering it from a secondary power source and see how that works.

I had bought it on ebay and it was functional for the a few weeks so hopefully it goes well with dynojet.

 

[FinalImpact]

Direct to battery and it causes faults? Thats not cool. It sounds like its defective. Have you ran any diagnostics on the Fuel controller by itself via software?

Unplug the sensor and see what it does. Also, if you have a current meter capable of 10 - 12 AMPs, you might see what the fuel controller draws, the Autotune, and then plug in the sensor and take another current reading. Maybe the heater circuit in the sensor or Autotune is shorted??

So, those guys are idiots too, "Instructing installation be powered by the downstream 10A tail lamp fuse"?

If so, F*** these companies are idiots! They're gonna get someone killed!!
- Its UBBERLY STUPID to expect a single 10A fuse "intended for the tail light power" to ALSO power the fuel injection and a Wideband Oxygen Sensor Heater!
- Granted, thousands have likely done it, but hundreds pop fuses in that area (many w/o the load of added device) and these folks could be in DANGER WHEN THE ENGINE SHUTS OFF UNEXPECTEDLY!!!

 

[foxhounddown]

Direct to battery and it causes faults? Thats not cool. It sounds like its defective. Have you ran any diagnostics on the Fuel controller by itself via software?

Unplug the sensor and see what it does. Also, if you have a current meter capable of 10 - 12 AMPs, you might see what the fuel controller draws, the Autotune, and then plug in the sensor and take another current reading. Maybe the heater circuit in the sensor or Autotune is shorted??

So, those guys are idiots too, "Instructing installation be powered by the downstream 10A tail lamp fuse"?

If so, F*** these companies are idiots! They're gonna get someone killed!!
- Its UBBERLY STUPID to expect a single 10A fuse "intended for the tail light power" to ALSO power the fuel injection and a Wideband Oxygen Sensor Heater!
- Granted, thousands have likely done it, but hundreds pop fuses in that area (many w/o the load of added device) and these folks could be in DANGER WHEN THE ENGINE SHUTS OFF UNEXPECTEDLY!!!

I haven't run diagnostics on the autotune as I'm not really sure how. Next course of action is gonna be using a secondary 12v source and then I'll try to see how it affects the system. It might be an internal short in the autotune module because I had checked continuity on all the wires in the oxygen sensor and the wires on the autotune module that connect to it, so definitely must be internal if that's the case.

UPDATE:
Okay I've concluded the autotune is definitely defective. I removed the battery and hooked it up solely to the autotune. The autotune heats up the oxygen sensor as normal and was reading the AFR correctly when hooked up but the moment I connect the autotune to the PCV (even if these are the only components in the circuit), the injectors keep priming.

 

[foxhounddown]

Just thought I'd update on what happened. So Dynojet's technical support also concluded it had an internal shortage and so I sent it in to have it tested.

I let them know I bought it secondhand on eBay so I didn't think it was honored under warranty anymore. Sure enough, they said it would be $25 for testing and $16 for ground shipping back to my address since it wasn't under warranty. Surprisingly, they sent a new module within a few days with a receipt saying that it's covered under warranty. Got to say, I'm impressed and content I didn't have to shell out another $200 for an Auto Tune module.

 

[FinalImpact]

Just thought I'd update on what happened. So my Dynojet's technical support also concluded it had an internal shortage and so I sent it in to have it tested.

I let them know I bought it secondhand on eBay so I didn't think it was honored under warranty anymore. Sure enough, they said it would be $25 for testing and $16 for ground shipping back to my address since it wasn't under warranty. Surprisingly, they sent a new module within a few days with a receipt saying that it's covered under warranty. Got to say, I'm impressed and content I didn't have to shell out another $200 for an Auto Tune module.

So you sent back both the PC and Autotune or just the Autotune and O2 sensor?

Regardless - +100 DJ tech support for replacing the defective components!

 

[foxhounddown]

The instructions said that I should only send back the Autotune w/o any accessories so I didn't even send in the oxygen sensor, just the Autotune with the wiring harness.

And it looks like the one they sent back to me is new. The glue/chemical that goes over the motherboard is new and it has a new serial number on the back cover.

 

[FinalImpact]

Let us know how it goes.

On to Tuning / AutoTune:
What year of bike is this on (S1/S2) chassis; point being S1 has no O2 bung S2 has CATs in the header. Do you know the efficiency of those CATs and what they'll do to the "reported AFR"???

What mods are done to the bike and what is your Target AFR you're shooting for? A flat ##.#:1 or variants across the map????

I know the DJ/PC hold many maps so are you building from scratch or running with a base map and edit that?

 

[foxhounddown]

Let us know how it goes.

On to Tuning / AutoTune:
What year of bike is this on (S1/S2) chassis; point being S1 has no O2 bung S2 has CATs in the header. Do you know the efficiency of those CATs and what they'll do to the "reported AFR"???

What mods are done to the bike and what is your Target AFR you're shooting for? A flat ##.#:1 or variants across the map????

I know the DJ/PC hold many maps so are you building from scratch or running with a base map and edit that?

Looks like I spoke too soon. I installed this autotune and I'm still getting code 43 (not 46 anymore). I even tried connecting it directly to the battery again and same issue. I don't think it could be the oxygen sensor as it's heated up normally from the beginning and all the wires have continuity. I should've checked for voltage drop and I might do that at home off a different 12v battery.

Btw, I have an S1 (2004). I don't have any cat's either because I installed an arrow mid-pipe with an 02 bung welded in. I've got most gears off the recommended AFR tables which are 13.8-13.2 depending on throttle position. I've got 6th gear more towards 13.8 but it's pretty similar to the other gears. I ran a map for stock settings and autotuned out from there. My map was pretty close to done when the autotune gave out.

 

[FinalImpact]

Take voltage reading across the fuel pump wires at the tanks Red/blue trace & Black wires. It should reflect system battery voltage.
Also, under the left pod, disconnect the starter safety cut out relay. Inspect mating pins for discoloration or damage of either/or both connectors.
I personally am not seeing the need to use a second battery if you have one that starts the bike. Both would always have a different potential and i just dont think its worth the risk.

Next step, unplug the F/C plug at the injector plug and connect it back directly to the ECU and verify the 43/46 code is gone. Read pump voltage again. Does it increase?
The bike should start and run off the oem MAP bypassing the fuel controller (F/C) map. Its just the one plug to the injectors to connect.

Also, is the light constant all the time or is it intermittent?

43 - The ECU is unable to monitor the battery voltage (an open circuit in the line to the ECU). Power supply to the injectors and the fuel pump is not normal.

46 - Power supply to the fuel injection system is not normal.

 

[FinalImpact]

While under the tank - disconnect the ECU and verify its connections are not compromised, corrosion, overheating, burns, blackness etc. - disconnect power at the battery first obviously.

Also, because we are hinting at both the Autotune and the DG/PC having issues, is there a chance this DJ unit had the polarity reversed for moment. This could explain the latent failure. Silicon junctions internal to the PC unit may survive an initial polarity reversal but fail later as it compromises the components internal to the unit and they fail over time / degrade.

ECU is here - the single black box with the mass of wires...

Disconnect battery power here -

 

[foxhounddown]

I was thinking of using a second battery solely so I don't have to remove the one from the bike and only for testing voltage drop across the autotune module. I think that the issue is the autotune because the code 43 only happens with the autotune connected but I'll try what you've said.

And to answer your questions, the check engine light stays on. I tried waiting a bit to see if perhaps the issue would turn off after the oxygen sensor had heated up but no luck. I don't know of any period that the polarity was reversed.


So I removed the autotune module to test for voltage drop within the module. Power (red) wire is fine all along up to the module. Testing voltage drop between the battery post and after the autotune module measures a 10 volt drop. If i test it from the battery post to the tip of oxygen sensor, its about an 11 volt drop.

 

[FinalImpact]

I was thinking of using a second battery solely so I don't have to remove the one from the bike and only for testing voltage drop across the autotune module. I think that the issue is the autotune because the code 43 only happens with the autotune connected but I'll try what you've said.

And to answer your questions, the check engine light stays on. I tried waiting a bit to see if perhaps the issue would turn off after the oxygen sensor had heated up but no luck. I don't know of any period that the polarity was reversed.


So I removed the autotune module to test for voltage drop within the module. Power (red) wire is fine all along up to the module. Testing voltage drop between the battery post and after the autotune module measures a 10 volt drop. If i test it from the battery post to the tip of oxygen sensor, its about an 11 volt drop.

As best I can follow, it sounds like you powered the module with a battery and then took your probes and poked holes into the wires (or opened the module and measured the voltage? And instead of battery voltage you measured 10V????

Not that this applies, but the Bazzaz AFR logger and F/C are both running on a 10A fuse. If your device throws a spark when connecting it, this could be a sign that its drawing a lot of current. If you don't have current meter capable of 15 Amps, you place an 1156 bulb in line with the unit. If it light fully like going across a 13V battery, the unit is drawing a fair amount of current. You can try a 55W bulb also. If the unit is inducing a high load (drawing lots of current, the lights get bright).

You might take a look at this. http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/UserGuides/AT200/AT-200.pdf

Even tho the bike has an error code, is it running? Does the Autotune function? I'd like to help but, there isn't much detail to go on.

 

[foxhounddown]

I probed into the wires at different points. Kinda like measuring battery voltage at the posts but I'm measuring at different points in the red wire. The number I'm getting should be the difference in voltage between the two points. So the difference between the positive post and farther down the red wire was 0 volts so no voltage drop but its 10 volts if I measure between the positive post and past the autotune module.

I measured the amp draw and it was about 2.5 amps which is within reason. And yes the bike runs regardless of the error code (the pump just keeps whirring), and the autotune functioned last time I tried it. I didn't try it this time that I got it back because I didn't have my laptop to hook it up.

 

[FinalImpact]

Did you measure the pump voltage with and w/out the module connected?

I've never looked into why the pump shuts off, but the ECU must either:
- sample its load, as it runs against the pressure regulator, it shuts it down based upon voltage drop.
- Its a set timer and shuts off waiting for the engine to show crank pulses accelerating??

Based upon what your saying, it only happens with autotune installed well, the RED/BLUE trace voltage would help us understand this as these parts are not really related unless your powered this device from the fuel pump circuit.

Please add some details about ALL connection made. To WHERE and for WHAT and maybe share some pictures... As you stated, 2.5Amps is reasonable If taken from the right place. ?? Is that Fuel controller and Autotune or just autotune drawing 2.5A?

Measure the voltage here:

 

[Motogiro]

I'm looking at the schematic and it looks like the ECM tells the relay in the starter interrupt/ cut off relay assembly to allow power to the fuel pump. This same relay supplies power to the positive side of thefuel injection. This is full time power meaning the fuel pump is not interrupted or regulated by the ECM unless there is a logic (safety issue) to unload that relay. This would also stop power to the fuel injection. This means the fuel pump must only turn on and off by it's own internal regulation. Higher demand = more on time. It might be there is an internal regulation problem in the pump or the pump volume is not up to standards. If voltages look good at the pump there could be a problem with the pump itself. Is the pump the correct pump? It may have been replaced with the wrong type to do the job? It may not have a problem until asked to deliver more fuel because of the tuning. Hope this helps.

 

[FinalImpact]

Once the bike is running the pump stays on. So there may be some logic to "shut it off" until the CPS shows movement.
Cliff, to your point; if its powered off (pump), it takes the injectors with it. My thought is it does this to conserve battery power. It knows to waits for movement from the crank senor to power up the circuit.
It seems reasonable but i have no proof. This would allow rolling starts vs pushing start button to bring pump back on line. If you recall i did a current test of key on and current drops off once pump shuts down.

Good info regardless! Thanks!

 

[Motogiro]

The pump and injection coils have power at all times unless they are interrupted by safety protocol. This means that if the ECU shuts off the pump it kills the injection coils at the same time. Once the fuel pressure is reached the pump shuts off. When the injectors are operated, fuel pressure drops and the pump pressure regulator allows current to flow. Voltage is constantly present. So although current is zero at the pump the potential is always present unless the key, kill switch, or safety tells the ECU to open the relay to the fuel pump and injection coils.



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