[Resolved] Cranking, not starting w/ documentation, video ref & diagnosis details

cybex_

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I've recently finished with some electrical & cosmetic work on my bike (addition of lights) and fairing fixes, but when putting everything back together the bike won't start.

Video ref:
I went over key components and diag mode with some light multimeter usage. I can do more if required.

I'm using a 2004ss workshop manual for all references to procedures and checks.
Workshop Manual: FZ6-S(S), FZ6N - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IvQmmtz071urPCFlDNn5d1M_dnrGKcW-/view?usp=sharing

Problem:
Bike is turning over/cranking (i.e. starter is turning the bike) but not starting (to idle).

Tried:
  • Hold throttle open 100% while cranking several times in a row for a few seconds doesn't help either.
  • Putting a few drops of petrol into the cylinders (above airbox), bike doesn't start either (possibly needs to be a mist?)
  • Bump start (to 10-11km/h)

Diagnosis:
  • Suspected electrical fault (related to fuel)
  • Battery (2mo old) gives >13V under no load, ~9V when cranking
    • Using car battery (car off) w/ jumper leads, bike cranks faster but not starting.
  • Fuel pump primes (when kill switch is off and/or when checking in diag mode, )
    • when removing fuel host from pump to injectors, some (~20-30ml) pressurised fuel comes out after each prime cycle
    • Fuel tank has no vacuum (audible sound when opening tank) upon fuel pump prime
    • Fuel injection system voltage: 12V (diag Code: 09)
    • Fuel injection system relay functional (audible check, diag code: 50)
  • Solenoid functioning (audible check, diag Code 48)
  • All fuses checked (EFI, Ignition, main, etc).
  • No engine warning light,
  • No error codes in cluster (normal)
  • (after bike power cycle i.e. w/ current starting issue), no stored error codes in ECU memory

Sensor/button checks
  • Kill switch has continuity
  • Neutral (diag code: 21), sidestand (diag code: 20) sensors checked (diag mode)
  • Crankshaft position sensor checked (normal, 200 ohms)
  • Tilt sensor reading within required limits (diag code 08)
  • Starter cut-off relay checked (manual, 8-12: Ignition System (13) AND diag mode, audible clicking sound)

NOT checked (since these are labour intensive, these are a very last resort)
  • Spark plugs
  • Secondary coil resistance
  • Fuel injectors
  • Compression (don't have necessary tools atm)

Notes:
  • When unplugging crankshaft position sensor, I'd expect to see an error code 12 (even after power cycle) on cluster (normal/diag mode), this does not show.
Fault Code 12: No normal signals are received from the crankshaft position sensor.
  • Unplugging the kickstand sensor does not show any error code.
  • Unplugging intake temperature sensor shows error 22, this is the only sensor of the 3 mentioned that affects the cluster.
Fault Code 22: Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.

History:
Replaced sub wiring harness (blue/white connector) from kill switch, starter switch & brake light -> ECU coupler since it had intermittent connectivity, causing code 46 every now and then (i.e. this connector was the cause)

Code 46: Power supply to the FI system is not normal.

This blue/white connector previously resulted in the bike not starting, causing clicking sounds in the starter relay and prevented the bike not starting. For the time being, I directly soldered each connection together to eliminate a potential issue.

See images below as reference.


Sub-wiring harness connector


Sub-wiring harness location



Summary
It seems 2 of 3 components are present:
  • Compression
  • Spark
  • (missing) fuel
However, it seems injectors aren't functioning. I'm certain atleast one of the injectors should work assuming 3 of them failed (in some way). This leads me to it being an electrical fault. Since I've had a few wiring issues (corroded wires, etc), I'm leaning towards continuity checks for wiring as a first measure.

Any/all suggestions are welcome.

---

UPDATE 1:
Doing a few further diagnostic checks, I observe the following:
  • In diag mode, testing injectors (code 36 & 37), I can clearly see a light mist sprayed into the cylinders.
  • Some sensors aren't being detected as disconnected.
    • Disconnected main switch, immobiliser connector (from keyhole on lhs to ECU / main harness)

  • disconnected crankshaft position sensor (expected to see fault code 12, was never detected)
  • disconnected ECU plug (after ~8s on normal cluster, Er_1 was visible - normal)

Notes:
  • After reconnecting ECU plug (while, crankshaft & intake air temperature sensors were disconnected and main switch/immobilser lead was disconnected), I mistakenly attempted to start. Bike cranked but didn't start. Code 22 was visible on cluster.
  • Reconnecting air temperature sensor (w/ crankshaft sensor and main switch/immobilser lead was disconnected) bike cranked, no start. No error codes visible (in normal/diag mode).
  • Continuity test between crankshaft connector -> ECU shows connection.
  • NOTE: According to manual, I should not be able to start (crank?) w/ faulty/disconnected Crankshaft position sensor


UPDATE 2:
Battery started running low, cranked a few times.

Observed:
  • Battery w/ no load: ~12.5V
  • Battery while cranking: ~8.7V drops to ~6V then stops cranking
  1. During this 'low power' crank, no engine warning light (all previous cranks mentioned in O.P. above had it on while cranking).
  2. While cranking (with low power), Er_1 displayed on cluster for cranking duration only (first time seeing this).
As much as I'm included to wait to recharge the battery to full and try again, if the battery was the source of the problem - the jumper cables to a fully charged car battery with a very fast crank should have started up immediately.

I'm still leaning towards an electrical issue of some kind, though I can rule out FI system.
 
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Motogiro

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First: We are not allowed to post copyright material from Yamaha manuals on this forum.
ER-1 as are other codes can get thrown when the voltage is very low. If you don't already know, do not jump start the bike from a car that has the engine running. Car battery is a good source for a jump and voltage source. The car alternate develops too much current for the bike's Regulator/Rectifier and can damage it.

Fuel, compression, spark, boom! If you have these components the engine should run. Of course timing. The ECU controls the fuel injectors and spark through pass transistors that operate as ground paths. Do not unplug or plug the ECU with power applied.

Is or has there been a fuel management device installed on the bike?
Since you've worked on electrical on the bike and it was running I would suspect a plug was disturbed. On inspecting plugs you might part them and inspect the pins.
 

trepetti

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Greetings
I've recently finished with some electrical & cosmetic work on my bike (addition of lights) and fairing fixes, but when putting everything back together the bike won't start.

Video ref:
I went over key components and diag mode with some light multimeter usage. I can do more if required.

I'm using a 2004ss workshop manual for all references to procedures and checks.
Workshop Manual: FZ6-S(S), FZ6N - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IvQmmtz071urPCFlDNn5d1M_dnrGKcW-/view?usp=sharing

Problem:
Bike is turning over/cranking (i.e. starter is turning the bike) but not starting (to idle).

Tried:
  • Hold throttle open 100% while cranking several times in a row for a few seconds doesn't help either.
  • Putting a few drops of petrol into the cylinders (above airbox), bike doesn't start either (possibly needs to be a mist?)
  • Bump start (to 10-11km/h)

Diagnosis:
  • Suspected electrical fault (related to fuel)
  • Battery (2mo old) gives >13V under no load, ~9V when cranking
    • Using car battery (car off) w/ jumper leads, bike cranks faster but not starting.
  • Fuel pump primes (when kill switch is off and/or when checking in diag mode, )
    • when removing fuel host from pump to injectors, some (~20-30ml) pressurised fuel comes out after each prime cycle
    • Fuel tank has no vacuum (audible sound when opening tank) upon fuel pump prime
    • Fuel injection system voltage: 12V (diag Code: 09)
    • Fuel injection system relay functional (audible check, diag code: 50)
  • Solenoid functioning (audible check, diag Code 48)
  • All fuses checked (EFI, Ignition, main, etc).
  • No engine warning light,
  • No error codes in cluster (normal)
  • (after bike power cycle i.e. w/ current starting issue), no stored error codes in ECU memory

Sensor/button checks
  • Kill switch has continuity
  • Neutral (diag code: 21), sidestand (diag code: 20) sensors checked (diag mode)
  • Crankshaft position sensor checked (normal, 200 ohms)
  • Tilt sensor reading within required limits (diag code 08)
  • Starter cut-off relay checked (manual, 8-12: Ignition System (13) AND diag mode, audible clicking sound)

NOT checked (since these are labour intensive, these are a very last resort)
  • Spark plugs
  • Secondary coil resistance
  • Fuel injectors
  • Compression (don't have necessary tools atm)

Notes:
  • When unplugging crankshaft position sensor, I'd expect to see an error code 12 (even after power cycle) on cluster (normal/diag mode), this does not show.

  • Unplugging the kickstand sensor does not show any error code.
  • Unplugging intake temperature sensor shows error 22, this is the only sensor of the 3 mentioned that affects the cluster.


History:
Replaced sub wiring harness (blue/white connector) from kill switch, starter switch & brake light -> ECU coupler since it had intermittent connectivity, causing code 46 every now and then (i.e. this connector was the cause)



This blue/white connector previously resulted in the bike not starting, causing clicking sounds in the starter relay and prevented the bike not starting. For the time being, I directly soldered each connection together to eliminate a potential issue.

See images below as reference.


Sub-wiring harness connector


Sub-wiring harness location



Summary
It seems 2 of 3 components are present:
  • Compression
  • Spark
  • (missing) fuel
However, it seems injectors aren't functioning. I'm certain atleast one of the injectors should work assuming 3 of them failed (in some way). This leads me to it being an electrical fault. Since I've had a few wiring issues (corroded wires, etc), I'm leaning towards continuity checks for wiring as a first measure.

Any/all suggestions are welcome.

---

UPDATE 1:
Doing a few further diagnostic checks, I observe the following:
  • In diag mode, testing injectors (code 36 & 37), I can clearly see a light mist sprayed into the cylinders.
  • Some sensors aren't being detected as disconnected.
    • Disconnected main switch, immobiliser connector (from keyhole on lhs to ECU / main harness)

  • disconnected crankshaft position sensor (expected to see fault code 12, was never detected)
  • disconnected ECU plug (after ~8s on normal cluster, Er_1 was visible - normal)

Notes:
  • After reconnecting ECU plug (while, crankshaft & intake air temperature sensors were disconnected and main switch/immobilser lead was disconnected), I mistakenly attempted to start. Bike cranked but didn't start. Code 22 was visible on cluster.
  • Reconnecting air temperature sensor (w/ crankshaft sensor and main switch/immobilser lead was disconnected) bike cranked, no start. No error codes visible (in normal/diag mode).
  • Continuity test between crankshaft connector -> ECU shows connection.
  • NOTE: According to manual, I should not be able to start (crank?) w/ faulty/disconnected Crankshaft position sensor


UPDATE 2:
Battery started running low, cranked a few times.

Observed:
  • Battery w/ no load: ~12.5V
  • Battery while cranking: ~8.7V drops to ~6V then stops cranking
  1. During this 'low power' crank, no engine warning light (all previous cranks mentioned in O.P. above had it on while cranking).
  2. While cranking (with low power), Er_1 displayed on cluster for cranking duration only (first time seeing this).
As much as I'm included to wait to recharge the battery to full and try again, if the battery was the source of the problem - the jumper cables to a fully charged car battery with a very fast crank should have started up immediately.

I'm still leaning towards an electrical issue of some kind, though I can rule out FI system.
You say you did some electrical work. Can you tell us what you did and more importantly, HOW you did it? Where in the harness did you tap in?
 

cybex_

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First: We are not allowed to post copyright material from Yamaha manuals on this forum.
ER-1 as are other codes can get thrown when the voltage is very low. If you don't already know, do not jump start the bike from a car that has the engine running. Car battery is a good source for a jump and voltage source. The car alternate develops too much current for the bike's Regulator/Rectifier and can damage it.

Fuel, compression, spark, boom! If you have these components the engine should run. Of course timing. The ECU controls the fuel injectors and spark through pass transistors that operate as ground paths. Do not unplug or plug the ECU with power applied.

Is or has there been a fuel management device installed on the bike?
Since you've worked on electrical on the bike and it was running I would suspect a plug was disturbed. On inspecting plugs you might part them and inspect the pins.
Hi Motogiro

Thanks for helpful tips, advice. I will keep in mind links, etc w/ source material in future.

Thanks for info on Er_1 (and it seems Fault Code 22) w/ regards to low battery / power output. I was attempting to draw attention to sensors not being detected/missing like crankshaft position sensor being unplugged which should prevent the bike from starting. This was unplugged yet I could still crank the bike. No error codes were visible on cluster nor in diag mode. (see main post Diagnosis & notes, Update 1).

Re: fuel management device - I do not have aftermarket components attached. This is a standard FZ6 w/ injectors.
 

cybex_

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You say you did some electrical work. Can you tell us what you did and more importantly, HOW you did it? Where in the harness did you tap in?
I made 2 additions
  1. Running lights (left side, NOT high beam)
  2. Brake lights
For running lights addition, I added 2 plug connectors (1 plug for running lights, 1 for spot light/LED additions). My own lights (built on main lighting system) has its own 10A.
For brake lights addition, I once again added 2 plug (1 plug for brake lights, 1 for LED additions). These are built upon backlight lighting system and uses the same fuse.
 

cybex_

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Since you've worked on electrical on the bike and it was running I would suspect a plug was disturbed. On inspecting plugs you might part them and inspect the pins.

Quite possibly a plug/wiring (wire connectivity) issue however I cant help but notice some sensors aren't being read which to me is a huge red flag. To me, the fact that crankshaft sensor (being a vitally important sensor) isn't detected when unplugged indicates its the ECU isn't getting to that point of detecting it being missing, i.e. there is another problem/check prior to this sensor in ECU logic.

Notes:
  • According to FI System: Fail Safe Actions in FZ6 manual,
Item: Crankshaft Position Sensor:
Symptom: No normal signals are received from the crankshaft position sensor. Action taken:
Action: Stops the engine (by stopping the injection and ignition).
Engine Startability: Unable

I need to stress, I can crank the bike with this sensor unplugged. The fact that it cranks but doesn't start may be a symptom of another issue I'm not aware of, but this is noteworthy. Further, I'm not sure if (under normal operations) this missing sensor should allow the starter to engage (previously working on it ~8mo I recall starter wouldn't engage and Code 12 should be shown on the cluster).
 

cybex_

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I didn't see anywhere if you pulled the spark plugs, grounded them (plugged in) and checked for spark at tips...

Do you have any spark?

.

Summary
It seems 2 of 3 components are present:
  • Compression
  • Spark
  • (missing) fuel

NOT checked (since these are labour intensive, these are a very last resort)
  • Spark plugs
  • Secondary coil resistance
  • Fuel injectors
  • Compression (don't have necessary tools atm)

I've avoided doing this as its a labour intensive process and would prefer to rule out other easier checked/diagnosable options. Though, I'll be checking these a bit later and posting an update as I'm running out of options.

Note: Diagnostics don't report any issues relating to spark plugs nor when cranking either (as per the manual to indicate spark plugs, etc issues).

Hypothetically speaking, if spark plugs are functioning as expected - any ideas how/where to proceed?
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Do basics to work your way to the fix.

Remove one plug (#4 isn't hard), attach to the lead and ground it out.
Crank and look for spark.

If you have another known good plug, just plug that into the lead and look for spark..

You indicated you spritzed some fuel down the TB's with no result. That indicates to me there is no spark as you manually added fuel... (assuming you had adequate compression)

Rule that in or out and move on...
 

cybex_

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Do basics to work your way to the fix.

Remove one plug (#4 isn't hard), attach to the lead and ground it out.
Crank and look for spark.

If you have another known good plug, just plug that into the lead and look for spark..

You indicated you spritzed some fuel down the TB's with no result. That indicates to me there is no spark as you manually added fuel... (assuming you had adequate compression)

Rule that in or out and move on...
Indeed. Some earlier testing, I noted while cranking, fuel was being sprayed in. Will be testing the spark plugs tomorrow and post update.

In the sense of being proactive, assuming I don't have spark - what would be further diagnosing steps?

According to the manual, I should check sparks plugs, cap resistance, coil resistance in that order. If all checks out, crankshaft position sensor checks out, main, engine, neutral, sidestand, clutch switches all check out, starting circuit cut-off relay tested correctly and lean angle sensor works as intended - it boils down to faulty wiring then?

As mentioned previously, crankshaft position sensor if unplugged should show engine warning light w/ Fault Code 12 - it doesn't.
 

Motogiro

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Indeed. Some earlier testing, I noted while cranking, fuel was being sprayed in. Will be testing the spark plugs tomorrow and post update.

In the sense of being proactive, assuming I don't have spark - what would be further diagnosing steps?

According to the manual, I should check sparks plugs, cap resistance, coil resistance in that order. If all checks out, crankshaft position sensor checks out, main, engine, neutral, sidestand, clutch switches all check out, starting circuit cut-off relay tested correctly and lean angle sensor works as intended - it boils down to faulty wiring then?

As mentioned previously, crankshaft position sensor if unplugged should show engine warning light w/ Fault Code 12 - it doesn't.
It may be that if the CPS is disconnected the ECU sees an open path and does not report an error. I would think that it should show an error.
It almost sounds like the ECU lost it's ground path. Check your ground wires that attach to various points at your frame. Generally always a black colored wire on the FZ6.

Unplug your ECU There are two wires on the plug that should have continuity to the frame or engine. One wire is black and the other wire is black with a white tracer. Without these grounds the ECU can not operate the fuel injector signals or the coil pack signals. You can disconnect the negative lead at the battery and there should be continuity from those black wires to the negative battery lead.
 
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cybex_

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It may be that if the CPS is disconnected the ECU sees an open path and does not report an error. I would think that it should show an error.
It almost sounds like the ECU lost it's ground path. Check your ground wires that attach to various points at your frame. Generally always a black colored wire on the FZ6.

Unplug your ECU There are two wires on the plug that should have continuity to the frame or engine. One wire is black and the other wire is black with a white tracer. Without these grounds the ECU can not operate the fuel injector signals or the coil pack signals. You can disconnect the negative lead at the battery and there should be continuity from those black wires to the negative battery lead.

Great set of steps, results as follows (w/ CPS plugged in):
  • Checked spark by removing entire spark plug unit, resting on engine block (on threads) and firing up starter. Spark plugs needs replacing soon. No spark though.
  • B, B/W wires from ECU to Negative terminal have continuity.
  • Checked primary coil resistance, within required limits
Not quite sure how to proceed from here, besides doing some additional simple tests for spark plug related resistance tests, I'm out of ideas on how to proceed, other than this CPS detection issue being my only 'lead' and seriously bugging me.
 

cybex_

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Checking starting circuit cut-off relay, (ref: Ignition System, 8-12, check 13):
  • Continuity check: (+) B/R and (-) Sb provides ~684 reading (no beep)
  • Continuity check: (+) B/R and (-) L/G provides ~704 reading (no beep)
Reverse tests check out, no continuity as expected

Colors reference
  • B/R - black, red
  • Sb - Sky blue
  • L/G - Blue, green
 

Gary in NJ

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Cybex

If the bike was working fine prior to your electrical work, and it won’t start after your work, then this is a problem you caused by inadvertently disconnecting a connector or by forgetting to reconnect something.

Re-do all of your work and you should find the issue.

You didn’t happen to lay the bike on its side while you were working on it? That would trigger the tip-over circuit.
 

cybex_

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Cybex

If the bike was working fine prior to your electrical work, and it won’t start after your work, then this is a problem you caused by inadvertently disconnecting a connector or by forgetting to reconnect something.

Re-do all of your work and you should find the issue.

You didn’t happen to lay the bike on its side while you were working on it? That would trigger the tip-over circuit.
Hi Gary

Re: If the bike was working fine prior to your electrical work, and it won’t start after your work, then this is a problem you caused by inadvertently disconnecting a connector or by forgetting to reconnect something.

Certainly, it was starting up. Something to note is I got a recurring Fault Code 46:

Fault Code 46: Power supply to the FI system relay is not normal.

This was due to the bad connector I mentioned in #1 - which should be resolved at this point.

As a step one prior to posting this thread, first thing was bypassing any modifications made, checking potential connectors (even those I haven't touched in the past 8 months) including cluster harness, CPS, etc.

@Motogiro provided some good info to start assisting, exactly what I was hoping for in an attempt to source this problem

---

Re: You didn’t happen to lay the bike on its side while you were working on it? That would trigger the tip-over circuit.
Sensor/button checks
  • ...
  • Tilt sensor reading within required limits (diag code 08)

Nope, not willing to pick up a bike unnecessarily either :)
 

cybex_

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I'm glad to report, I have a solution.

Steps / Notes:

Since Ignition system turned out complete and working (via Ω checks), it had to be an electrical/wiring/coil issue. CPS was replugged for the n'th time. Checked all connections, from ECU to neutral switches, etc. & replugged starter cut-off relay (plugged in with some force to ensure connections).

Noticed, had 3 vacuum tubes with tears in them (see this post for a similar issue)

As part of the Ignition System fault finding checklist, I checked up to and including ignition coils, spark plugs, caps, etc to eliminate all issues up to the ECU box. I did this while connect to jumpers (battery was getting low). Plug pencil/cap all checked out (couldn't get reading from cap #4), the rest were around 10k Ω (±200 deviation). Checked coil with screwdriver shorted to engine bloc, got some nice blue sparks (held screwdriver ~5mm away from engine block).

Solution:
I have no idea where the problem was. Last time I attempted to start was prior to removing spark plugs. During this time I replugged CPS, ECU, FI system/fuel pump plugs, clean & replugged ignition coils down to spark plugs and fixed vacuum pipes (doubt this will cause no spark though)

The most likely candidate is: starter cut-off relay w/ connection not made on one or more wires while already plugged in.

Reason: most items I replugged multiple times but noticed the most recent time, fuel pump didn't turn on in diag mode or flipping kill switch on/off when starting. This relay controls these 2 (according to wiring diagram). Replugged it (with some force), got fuel pump priming when turned 'on'. Check ignition coil/spark plugs for spark and voila.
 

Motogiro

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I'm glad to report, I have a solution.

Noticed, had 3 vacuum tubes with tears in them (see this post for a similar issue)

The last time I had vacuum tubes with tears in them was when I was shredding on my guitar amp with the 12AX7's glowing!

What???? No old school guitar players here? Lol!
 
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