Don't ride like you drive

[VEGASRIDER]

Although the rules of the roads are essentially the same for cars and motorcycles, you must separate your driving habits so it doesn't cross over to your riding. Most of you ride recreationally, therefore you probably spend more time behind the wheel than the handlebars and may forget some of the things that you should not be doing when you're on your bike.

What driving habits do you or other drivers have that would not be a good practice to carryover when riding? List one, and please explain why. Let me start off the list with...................

Tailgaiting, also known as following too closely. If you are the type of driver who has a tendency to tailgate, you might want to refrain from doing so on your motorcycle. There is a big difference of rear ending a vehicle with a car vs a motorcycle so please allow yourself a nice safety margin. This includes when you come to a stop behind another vehicle. Please allow yourself plenty of room between you and the vehicle in front of you. Don't make the mistake of stopping a feet or two away, you are leaving yourself zero outs in the event you need to move for whatever reason. In my opinion, a definate sign of an inexpereinced rider or possibly a rider who has carried their driving habits to riding.

 

[agf]

I think this is a great thread Kenny
just as well most of us don't have cd players to reload and the phone is too hard to hear when you raise it to a helmeted ear

but reality is cornering on wet roads at the start of the wet season when the roads are nice and greasy. easy to deal with in he car but treacherous on two wheels. Here in Melbourne,crossing tram tracks at a shallow angle.... and I did a big ol' wide crossing this morning in front of a copper but fortunately I indicated first, but in hind sight I prob looked like I was cutting in front of him pretty severely, even tho there was about 3 car lengths between us and only doing 40km/h

in hot weather the beauty of riding in the car with shorts, singlet top and thongs or jandles or flipflops on your feet. seeing some riders in the hot months with n real protective gear.

 

[2nd childhood]

One habit I have on two wheels and don't (but should) on four wheels is to always expect the unexpected and leave myself an escape route. :spank:

 

[mxgolf]

Four wheels you feel pretty bullet proof while on two not so much. You have to spend 100% of your time on two wheels focusing on the road and all road hazards. For example man hole covers, train tracks can be very slippery when riding a motorcycle. Potholes is another obstacle that needs to be spotted ahead of time as it could and normally will be in your riding line. FOCUS 100% on the road ahead see your line and act accordingly to all hazards.

 

[Panther1911]

I find more of the opposite.

I try not to carry some of my riding habits to my car.

I find that I ride more aggressively and a little faster when in traffic than I do in my car.

If I am the first in line at a stop light, when it turns green I accelerate fairly quickly to put a larger gap between me and the person behind me.

Some times I find my self passing more or changing lanes more to get away from others that are in cars that have questionable drivers. Since the bike is much more nimble and faster than my SUV, I can do this on the bike.

Sometimes I have to try not to do those things in a car.

 

[raja777m]

If I am the first in line at a stop light, when it turns green I accelerate fairly quickly to put a larger gap between me and the person behind me.

Yup, i try not to jump after the split second i see green, on both Bike and Car.
If i'm at the stop light, first vehicle, I feel like i'm on a race track(never been to one yet) waiting for green with other racers of the day.
Car: dangerous for you and opposite(technically, perpendicular) and Bike: dangerous for you.
Its a bad habit I couldn't tame.
For now i'm looking both ways, so that no other uncontrolled car would come one to me(I watch russian road rage, funny accidents, win-fail videos a lot to learn from other's mistakes).
Slowly i'll learn not to do race at green.

 

[Motogiro]

Was just talking to my wife about this the other day while watch a another rider following too closely. I explained how a rider must give much more room than you would driving a car for the unexpected debris you may run into. Generally if you are in a tire track there is a better chance the car ahead will contact debris with it's tire and give you a higher percentage of not contacting the debris. If you are in the very center of the lane there is more chance you will contact debris. Being in the center of the lane and following to closely will give you less or no time to react and avoid contact with debris. Following too closely also lessens your stopping distance and trajectory angles to find a hole during emergency braking.

The way we operate vehicles in civilization leaves even less chance of giving the needed space. This is a psychological problem with most vehicle operators. We have a first come first serve mentality and if you leave space someone will try to take that space. That may include you as a rider. As you take that space you close a safety gap that you especially need as a rider. You can still reduce your risk by giving that additional distance at any chance you have and develop it as a habit.

 

[mxhideout]

Good idea for a thread. I've been reading/finding new ways to ride safer the past couple years. I could post a few tips, but this is one one that can translate to two or more wheels. If you're first at a red stop light and it turns green, quick glance both ways as you roll out to see if someone looks like they could run a red. People like to run reds, and if are racing to the next light and didn't see the mom in her suv flying through the intersection to soccer practice, there's a good chance of impact.

 

[patrickb37]

I tend to take a slower entry speed into corners on my bike than in a car. With a car (especially FWD), it's easier to brake mid-corner if you go in too hot. Not so on a bike. Slow in, fast out!

 

[2nd childhood]

Was just talking to my wife about this the other day while watch a another rider following too closely. I explained how a rider must give much more room than you would driving a car for the unexpected debris you may run into. Generally if you are in a tire track there is a better chance the car ahead will contact debris with it's tire and give you a higher percentage of not contacting the debris. If you are in the very center of the lane there is more chance you will contact debris. Being in the center of the lane and following to closely will give you less or no time to react and avoid contact with debris. Following too closely also lessens your stopping distance and trajectory angles to find a hole during emergency braking.

I'd never thought of that as a reason to stay out of the middle, but it makes total sense. I steer clear of the center due to potential oil drippings from cagers who don't keep up their rigs. The tire tracks tend to me cleaner and drier.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Here's a popular one, emergency braking. It's the complete opposite on a bike. In a car, and when you need to stop immediately, most drivers will slam on their brakes, putting their foot through the floorboard, locking or tightening up their hands and arms with their steering wheel. You cannot do that on your bike. Grabbing a handful of brake will result in a front tire lock up and could result in a low side crash before you even reach the hazard that popped out in front of you. Too much rear brake with your right foot will result in a rear tire skid, possibly misaligning your rear tire with your front. You also need to have your arms relaxed since you may have to swerve. Locking up your brakes, arms along with a death grip on a bike will certainly result in a crash, where in a car, you could probably get away with it.

This is why practicing your quick stops and swerves is so critical. Using the proper techniques to achieve maximum braking and focusing on your muscle memory. Squeeze, don't grab or slam.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I tend to take a slower entry speed into corners on my bike than in a car. With a car (especially FWD), it's easier to brake mid-corner if you go in too hot. Not so on a bike. Slow in, fast out!

This is incredibly important, especially for more inexperienced street riders. I'm still inexperienced, but when I was first getting on the road, I took a few turns nice and slow and thought "hey I can do this much faster." At least I did it in a spot where there was no median and no oncoming traffic. :spank::spank:

Slow in, fast out is MUCH better than fast in, slide out!

 

[kenh]

:thumbup:

Here's a popular one, emergency braking. It's the complete opposite on a bike. In a car, and when you need to stop immediately, most drivers will slam on their brakes, putting their foot through the floorboard, locking or tightening up their hands and arms with their steering wheel. You cannot do that on your bike. Grabbing a handful of brake will result in a front tire lock up and could result in a low side crash before you even reach the hazard that popped out in front of you. Too much rear brake with your right foot will result in a rear tire skid, possibly misaligning your rear tire with your front. You also need to have your arms relaxed since you may have to swerve. Locking up your brakes, arms along with a death grip on a bike will certainly result in a crash, where in a car, you could probably get away with it.

This is why practicing your quick stops and swerves is so critical. Using the proper techniques to achieve maximum braking and focusing on your muscle memory. Squeeze, don't grab or slam.

If my memory serves me correctly, you are taught quick stops in the MSF basic course from about 25 mph. While this is a great introduction to slowing rapidly. it is a controlled environment. In the real world you are usually traveling at a higher rate of speed and the road surface/conditions may be less than ideal. For practice when I am approaching a traffic light that may change, I will do a quick check in my mirrors and perform a sudden stop when the light changes. I could have easily made the light, but once in awhile I use the lights as practice stops. The result is that you will be more comfortable executing a sudden stop when you really have to and you will learn your braking threshold. There are many variables and everybody is different, but the more you practice the more calm you will be when it really counts.

 

[iviyth0s]

I'd say while it's good to stay centered in your lane in a car to minimize hitting anyone but not in the case of a motorcycle. For a motorcycle it's probably better to be maybe 3/4 or more to one side of the lane (I like the left) while riding so that you're more aware to that driver in front as well as oncoming traffic being more aware to your presence. Obviously potholes and the like should still be avoided but I've found this to be a pretty good practice. Also if you're partially to one side of the lane it may give you some added swerving time if they suddenly stop (of course if they swerve towards your direction it may be worse at the same token)

 

[beatle]

I find it strange how close other riders get to each other. I rode with a friend who had an R1 a couple years ago. When we stopped I ribbed him and asked why he was going so slow. He said he thought I wanted to go slow since I was following so far behind him (3-4 car lengths @ 70mph). Much closer and I'd run into him if he so much as touched the brakes if I didn't have the controls covered.

Looking at how other riders space apart from each other, I see a lot clustered together. Maybe this is good to keep from getting separated, but it seems less safe to me.

 

[Dry Martini]

. This includes when you come to a stop behind another vehicle. Please allow yourself plenty of room between you and the vehicle in front of you. Don't make the mistake of stopping a feet or two away, you are leaving yourself zero outs in the event you need to move for whatever reason. In my opinion, a definate sign of an inexpereinced rider or possibly a rider who has carried their driving habits to riding.

Well not always. When I come to a stop behind another car, I leave enough space for an out, until another car has come to a complete stop behind me. They are now my buffer. Then I can pull up some. I always check my mirrors when coming to a stop, to what the person behind me is doing. I will even do this at a yellow light. If they look like they have no intention of stopping on yellow, I go on through the intersection. I practice this both riding bikes and driving cars.

It is best to practice "situational awareness" on a daily basis. That way you are not caught off guard when you change modes of transportation.

Situational awareness also applies to personal safety. Know where you are and what is around you. If more people did this, they would not need backup cameras, mirror mounted radar to tell them what is in the lane next to them. Yes cars are being designed for the new brain dead driver.


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[Dry Martini]

I find it strange how close other riders get to each other. I rode with a friend who had an R1 a couple years ago. When we stopped I ribbed him and asked why he was going so slow. He said he thought I wanted to go slow since I was following so far behind him (3-4 car lengths @ 70mph). Much closer and I'd run into him if he so much as touched the brakes if I didn't have the controls covered.



Looking at how other riders space apart from each other, I see a lot clustered together. Maybe this is good to keep from getting separated, but it seems less safe to me.

You are riding in a staggered formation, right? This allows you tighten up a bit, wIthout fear of running into them.


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[beatle]

You are riding in a staggered formation, right? This allows you tighten up a bit, wIthout fear of running into them.


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Yes, though the proximity is still a bit off-putting. I suppose in theory it's no different than two separate lanes of traffic, though it feels much closer on a bike.

 

[FIZZER6]

What I do in my car that I should not carry over to the bike?

1. Steer where I want to go. Won't work on the bike at speed, press the direction you want to go! Fortunately if you ride enough you don't have to think about how you are steering the bike it just comes naturally.

2. Stopping abruptly. Not usually an issue in traffic in a car but if you suddenly stop on the bike in traffic chances are the person following you won't see you stop so give yourself enough following distance on traffic so you don't have to do a power stop if traffic suddenly halts.

3. Following distance: You all have covered the issue with debris but when stopped in traffic or at a light do not get right up behind the car in front. To the car driver a bike that is 3' off his bumper will look like he's touching him from the rear view mirror even when you aren't even close. This will likely cause the driver to not pay attention to the road ahead and if he's a D-bag he may even brake check you for following too close and making him uncomfortable. Give space!

4. Lane position on 2-way roads: Not much you can adjust in a car but on a bike it's much safer to be in the outside of your lane when passing high speed oncoming traffic as lots of people out there are not paying attention and can suddenly drift or swerve into your lane. If you are on the inside track and need to swerve your chances of a crash are much higher than if you were already on the outside track near the edge of the road. This is especially true when going around a blind curve where there could suddenly be an oncoming truck over the line into your lane! It's not easy to swerve while leaned over!

 

[Koissu]

Great thread - nice way to review before getting out in the Spring. I was explaining some of this to my wife last night as I was perusing the thread - then this morning she sends me this text:

'3 different people came to a complete stop in the middle of 111 [local 45mph road] taking a turn without a blinker. One woman just pulled a u turn right in front of me without a blinker and then ran right through a red light.'

MA drivers are notorious for their lack of blinkers so it is just habit to assume no one is doing what they appear to be doing (or may do what they do not appear to be doing!).

Situational Awareness. All the time.