Fault Code 33 Help!!

[alexfabian]

Hi Guys/Gals,

Riding to work the other day, cruising around 70mph my FZ6 2007 developed a fault, I have bullet pointed the symptoms below:
Engine Warning light on
Loosing speed to around 50mph
Bike feeling sluggish/no power available
Engine sounding rough/not able to rev correctly.
Fault code 33 on the screen.

I had the bike recovered home as I didn't want to cause any damage to the engine if the fault was in there.
Now I've got it home I have tried to find and fix the problem but unfortunately everything I've tried so far hasn't worked (listed below)

Removed the spark plugs/fitted new.
Removed the spark plugs, earthed the plug and fired, only plugs 2-3 spark, 1-4 do not.
1-4 are on the same coil so I guess that is the problem.
When I turn the ignition on there is only 12V getting to coil 2-3 not 1-4.

I have tested the starter relay and it operates correctly. Also checked the fuses and they are fine....

For some reason the power to the coil packs are not from the same wiring loom and I can't seem to find why it is not getting power to 1-4????

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Motogiro]

Fault code 33 is the primary circuit on the coil that fires both #1 and #4 cylinders. There are many reasons you might get this code.. You may have a bad primary winding on the coil. The first test would be a resistance check on the primary winding. Do you have a Digital Multimeter?

Disconnect the primary leads of the coil and put your meter in the Ohms mode x1k. You should get a reading of 1.53 to 2.07 @ 68 deg F.

Also power to coils 1-4 and power to coils 2-3 are the same supply voltages. The supply voltages for both coils come through the kill switch so if coil 2-3 is powered so should coil 1-4. Here is the difference....Coil 1-4 and coil 2-3 are fired by toggling the negative side of the primary windings for each coil to ground. This is done by the ECU/ECM which fires each coil on the TDC or end of exhaust stroke for the paired cylinders. This makes a more efficient design solution instead of programming 4 different sparks for the standard inline 4 firing order.

If you're not seeing voltage at the 1-4 cylinder coil there is the possibility the ECU is holding the negative primary on the coil down. Let's hope this is not the case because that could mean the ECU is damaged. Do not apply voltages to the coils directly unless the ECU plug has been disconnected. Unplug the ECU and then look to see if voltage is present on the dead coil. If the voltage is then present you may have a bad ECU. If there is still no voltage trace the coil supply wire back toward the kill switch. If that wire goes through a plug, the pins in that plug may be burned and not supplying the voltage any more.

Again disconnect wiring and check resistance on primary.

 

[alexfabian]

Thanks for the reply!!! I will be trying/testing all of the above tonight when I finish work. Fingers crossed it's NOT the ECU!
Will let you know how I get on...

 

[alexfabian]

Fault code 33 is the primary circuit on the coil that fires both #1 and #4 cylinders. There are many reasons you might get this code.. You may have a bad primary winding on the coil. The first test would be a resistance check on the primary winding. Do you have a Digital Multimeter?

Disconnect the primary leads of the coil and put your meter in the Ohms mode x1k. You should get a reading of 1.53 to 2.07 @ 68 deg F.

Also power to coils 1-4 and power to coils 2-3 are the same supply voltages. The supply voltages for both coils come through the kill switch so if coil 2-3 is powered so should coil 1-4. Here is the difference....Coil 1-4 and coil 2-3 are fired by toggling the negative side of the primary windings for each coil to ground. This is done by the ECU/ECM which fires each coil on the TDC or end of exhaust stroke for the paired cylinders. This makes a more efficient design solution instead of programming 4 different sparks for the standard inline 4 firing order.

If you're not seeing voltage at the 1-4 cylinder coil there is the possibility the ECU is holding the negative primary on the coil down. Let's hope this is not the case because that could mean the ECU is damaged. Do not apply voltages to the coils directly unless the ECU plug has been disconnected. Unplug the ECU and then look to see if voltage is present on the dead coil. If the voltage is then present you may have a bad ECU. If there is still no voltage trace the coil supply wire back toward the kill switch. If that wire goes through a plug, the pins in that plug may be burned and not supplying the voltage any more.

Again disconnect wiring and check resistance on primary.

I have measured the resistance of the coils, both are within the recommended tolerance and are in good condition. I have fitted the coil 1-4 to 2-3 power supply and it sparks fine.

When I connect my multimeter to the power supply for 2-3 I get 5v (ish) and when I hit the start button it increases to 12v.
When I connect to power supply for 1-4 I get 5v and then with the start pressed I get a dip in voltage to 1.6-2V, as the relay is clicking in and out.

Any ideas???

Thanks

 

[alexfabian]

I'm also getting 12V down both +wires (red/black), but I am also getting 3-4V down the - wires? There is only a difference when the starter switch is pressed......

 

[Motogiro]

It sounds like you may in fact have an ECU problem. The next step is to test the wire for that coil that goes back to the ECU. If the wire tests good examine the ECU plug pin for any corrosion that might cause a problem. It could even be a burned pin at the ECU. If all looks good as far as wiring and the ECU plug you may need a new ECU...

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[alexfabian]

It sounds like you may in fact have an ECU problem. The next step is to test the wire for that coil that goes back to the ECU. If the wire tests good examine the ECU plug pin for any corrosion that might cause a problem. It could even be a burned pin at the ECU. If all looks good as far as wiring and the ECU plug you may need a new ECU...

Sent from Moto's Motorola

Back again! I've have the loom stripped back to the individual wires. All of the coil power wires are fine and test ok using the multimeter, also the signal cables (Orange/black,grey/black) test ok.

Coil pack 2-3 still works ok, so I hooked up pack 1-4 using the original power from 1-4 and the signal from 2-3. The pack then failed to spark so I guess I have narrowed it down to the 1-4 Orange/Black signal wire.

I also measured the current being sent down the signal wire and compared the read out of 1-4,2-3. They are getting the same amount of current and it is fluctuating the same also. So.....the ECU is still sending the signal when to spark but STILL no spark???

Again, I have tried both coil packs of 1-4 (no spark), I managed to get 1-4 to spark when I used 1-4 power and 2-3 signal.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Alex
(Praying it's not the ECU)

 

[trepetti]

Hi Alex. There are folks here that are way smarter than me on this but measuring the voltage will not tell you if the Ecu is bad. Voltage is provided by the kill switch. The Ecu provides the ground for the coil to charge up, then cuts the ground to cause the current flow to stop which causes the magnetic field in the coil to collapse which induces the high voltage to flow from the coil to the spark plug and across the gap. So measuring the voltage on the primary side of the coil through the multimeter to ground is really testing the kill switch. Not good news Sorry.

Moto, Scott, do I have that right?

 

[alexfabian]

Hi Alex. There are folks here that are way smarter than me on this but measuring the voltage will not tell you if the Ecu is bad. Voltage is provided by the kill switch. The Ecu provides the ground for the coil to charge up, then cuts the ground to cause the current flow to stop which causes the magnetic field in the coil to collapse which induces the high voltage to flow from the coil to the spark plug and across the gap. So measuring the voltage on the primary side of the coil through the multimeter to ground is really testing the kill switch. Not good news Sorry.

Moto, Scott, do I have that right?

Thank you for the reply.

Ok I understand what you are saying, is there anyway that I can confirm that the ECU is actually at fault before I go out and buy one? Do,you know what reading I could test for that is coming out of 1-4 orange/black wire (which I think is at fault)

Thanks again for the reply

 

[Motogiro]

Thank you for the reply.

Ok I understand what you are saying, is there anyway that I can confirm that the ECU is actually at fault before I go out and buy one? Do,you know what reading I could test for that is coming out of 1-4 orange/black wire (which I think is at fault)

Thanks again for the reply

If you put the coil that you know has been firing is in the circuit where the failed coil is not firing and the known good coil does not fire it would say the ECU or continuity to the ECU is at fault. I believe you did say (post #7) that you put the coil that was not firing on the good controlled side and you did not get spark. This would indicate a coil failure.The best way I know of testing the ECU would be to use an oscilloscope so that you could compare both coil driver pulses to see if they looked equal. That test should be done with the coils connected so that the expected impedance was present to the ECU. What trepetti said is correct in that the coil would be hard to measure on the side that goes to the ECU because your looking at a hi and lo state at RPM and you can really hold a specific RPM when cranking. Please confirm what I believe you stated in post #7. If it is then you have a bad coil.
You can attach one side of the coil primary winding to a 12 positive source and momentarily tap the control wire to the 12VDC negative and you should get a good spark off the secondary. Use a spark plug and remember to ground the threaded body of the spark plug to the same 12 VDC negative that you're using. Do not leave the primary winding control wire attached to the negative just tap it momentarily.

 

[alexfabian]

If you put the coil that you know has been firing is in the circuit where the failed coil is not firing and the known good coil does not fire it would say the ECU or continuity to the ECU is at fault. I believe you did say (post #7) that you put the coil that was not firing on the good controlled side and you did not get spark. This would indicate a coil failure.The best way I know of testing the ECU would be to use an oscilloscope so that you could compare both coil driver pulses to see if they looked equal. That test should be done with the coils connected so that the expected impedance was present to the ECU. What trepetti said is correct in that the coil would be hard to measure on the side that goes to the ECU because your looking at a hi and lo state at RPM and you can really hold a specific RPM when cranking. Please confirm what I believe you stated in post #7. If it is then you have a bad coil.
You can attach one side of the coil primary winding to a 12 positive source and momentarily tap the control wire to the 12VDC negative and you should get a good spark off the secondary. Use a spark plug and remember to ground the threaded body of the spark plug to the same 12 VDC negative that you're using. Do not leave the primary winding control wire attached to the negative just tap it momentarily.

Thanks for the reply, I have emailed a company called Motomatrix and they have said they have been asked about this fault a few times before and have confirmed that it would be the ECU like you said which is causing the fault.

I now need to find a used, working ECU to send to them so they can reset it to a virgin state, and then code it to my keys......

 

[Motogiro]

Thanks for the reply, I have emailed a company called Motomatrix and they have said they have been asked about this fault a few times before and have confirmed that it would be the ECU like you said which is causing the fault.

I now need to find a used, working ECU to send to them so they can reset it to a virgin state, and then code it to my keys......

Just make sure you've confirmed the coil (primary winding) and the associated wire for that coil are good. The ECU will throw that code if there is no power to the primary, the primary winding is open, the wire to the ECU form the primary winding is open or the ECU internal transistor has failed.

 

[FinalImpact]

Cliff, one observation is the coils are very picky in regards to testing by just tapping power to them momentarily. In fact its nearly impossible to get a spark every time the connection is broken.
Point; it may be misleading.

I wonder if the EU bikes received different components on the output as it appears we've seen what 4 failures over the past two years there...

FWIW: diagnostic mode 30 & 31 IIRC while toggling run stop switch does test the coils and emits 5 ignition pulses... Plug bodies grounded to engine...

 

[FinalImpact]

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...on-cure-bad-vibrations-spark-plug-caps-4.html

Post 131, ya - diag #30 & 31... Note: if you look REAL close at your coils there is a + an - on them by the terminals. Its embedded in the material.

 

[alexfabian]

Hi Guys, it's been a while since my last reply on here. In case you were wondering or if anyone is experiencing similar symptoms like myself, the fault was actually the ECU. The company MotoMatrix managed to source me a used ECU which they reset to a virgin state, this is possible when you have the red key which links the replacement ECU to your bike. The customer service was great and speedy delivery. The price wasn't bad either considering Yamaha wanted over £2000 for a replacement ECU.
The bike runs fine now, just need to figure out why the speedo turns off intermittently............