Front wheel lock-up

[BlackAndBlue]

I just got an '07 last week and the very biggest difference between it and my previous motorcycle ('92 Nighthawk 750) is that the front brake is MUCH more powerful. I could grab all the front brake all I wanted with the Nighthawk and as long as there was no loose material on the pavement, it was no problem to control. The aggression with which the FZ6 dives and slows with even moderate front brake application makes me wonder how careful I need to be while I'm practicing emergency stops with it (which obviously I'm doing lots of right now since I'm getting familiar with a new bike). How easily will the front lock up with stock pads? Will the rear typically lift before the front locks? I'm referring particularly to when in normal traction conditions. I don't need anyone to tell me that if I'm on a slick spot or loose material that it will lock up easily! But on average decent pavement, how much concern of a front lock up is there?

I do realize that this still depends greatly on tire, relative descriptions of pressure applied, exact pavement quality and everything else, but I just want to see what anyone that has plenty of miles and maybe a few real emergency stops on this bike has to say about the matter.

Thanks in advance!

 

[thisisbenji]

It's really hard to lock the front.

I'm not a very skilled rider, (only a few track days and five years on the street), but I usually get some chatter before I get close to locking up.

NOTE: This could be that my bike sucks and yours won't chatter.

 

[BlackAndBlue]

good to know. anyone ever lift the rear unexpectedly on a good surface?

 

[fb40dash5]

good to know. anyone ever lift the rear unexpectedly on a good surface?

I nabbed the brakes pretty good rounding a curve and seeing a deer in the road one night last year. I don't know that I actually lifted the rear, but it got squirrely and slid a bit. I think the FZ brakes are a great balance of a ton of power with reasonable pressure, and a lot of modulation.

I also learned that despite all the people saying to use your rear brake all time or you won't use it in a panic stop... I rarely use my rear brake, but I got on it too hard in that situation.

Personal preference, but I put ASV shorty levers on mine. I like to 2-finger the levers, and neither side needs any more leverage than I get with them. Might help if you're used to needing to apply more pressure or grabbing farther out on the lever.

 

[FinalImpact]

As you know there is little way to ascertain how hard we all brake to induce skid/stoppie actions.
That said, its all about practice, practice, practice.... You need to know your limit regardless of anything we write.

Yes, I've had the tire doing a slow roll with smoke coming off while the bike was at twice that speed; i.e. seeing what the new forks could do.

Get to a safe location and practice. Try not slide forward by pushing back on the pegs. You don't want your arms locked stiff pushing on bars so grip the tank and push back using eveything but your arms.

Build in steps so you know what you and the bike are able to do. Be smooth and progressive. No stabbing of the controls. Smooth will keep you intact should traction be compromised.

Fwiw: the rear oem brake lever height is too high and makes it very easy to overpressure the rear and lock it. I adjusted mine down nearly an inch...

Have you taken a rider safety class of any kind?

 

[VEGASRIDER]

You should focus your braking application from technique and muscle memory. Yes, there is a big difference between the Nighthawk and FZ6, grabbing the front brakes is not good. Remember, try to progressively squeeze your brake levers. As stated, practice in an open parking lot, and don't forget practicing your swerves, sometimes swerving is a better corrective action than braking, but a lot of riders fail to execute the swerve since they simply forget or just focus on braking. You need to practice your swerves just as much as you practice your quick stops.

 

[ozgurakman]

If your concern is nose diving, try to harder springs.
I'm using my '05 fz6 fazer with HEL brand braided racing lines and oem pads and it's hard lock (my bike got 2pot calipers).

Also, I did pretty strong brakes several times and no, bike's tail weren't get lifted.

sorry for my English. Ride safely and congrats with your bike!

 

[thisisbenji]

I also learned that despite all the people saying to use your rear brake all time or you won't use it in a panic stop... I rarely use my rear brake, but I got on it too hard in that situation.

Using the rear brake 100% of the time sounds sketchy to me. Rear brake is one of those things that really needs to be determined by the conditions. I wouldn't necessarily want to use it in a panic stop to be honest.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

The rear brake is great for scrubbing speed at low speeds, and got smoother riding at show speeds ( <10mph ). It definitely allows for shorter stopping distances in dry conditions, but I agree that it should be used cautiously and situationally because it's very easy to lock up.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Using the rear brake 100% of the time sounds sketchy to me. Rear brake is one of those things that really needs to be determined by the conditions. I wouldn't necessarily want to use it in a panic stop to be honest.

I hate the word "Panic Stop" because it just induces panic braking, which is slamming on the brakes which ultimately results in a crash. You can get away with it in a car, but you are certainly doomed if you do it on a bike.

Also if your intention is to get the motorcycle stopped in the shortest distance possible, proper application of the rear brakes is required! Therefore why would you not want to use your rear brake? It could be the difference of hitting something or not.

 

[2007Z6ALL-LED]

I would recommend to practice to use two brake whenever you brake. It's life saving!

I did the emergency brake (see the thread below), skidded 5 feet and luckily no accident (I've been riding since 12 year old so counter steering is my nature, habit reaction whenever the rear skidding).

Until now, I'm never a skillful rider but always learn more every day. And I'm still practicing my two brake action all the times..you should do,, it's a life saving (squeezing the brake not to grab it)!


http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...call-glad-changed-my-rear-pr4-last-month.html

 

[BlackAndBlue]

I appreciate all the responses. I definitely will be practicing stopping more. Like has been mentioned, that's an ongoing thing, kind of like maintenance. My concern about locking up the front has been lifted some. I'm on fairly fresh Dunlop dual compounds, though I don't know their exact age, but I'm pretty confident they'll help me keep control.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

On the side of the tires will be a 4 digit code. The code will be the week of the year they were made (01 through 52) and the next two numbers will be the year they were manufactured. So my tires have 2209 on them for the 22nd week of 2009.

 

[BlackAndBlue]

On the side of the tires will be a 4 digit code. The code will be the week of the year they were made (01 through 52) and the next two numbers will be the year they were manufactured. So my tires have 2209 on them for the 22nd week of 2009.

Woah. Middle of 2010 on both. The bike has been stored in a parking garage of sorts, protected from the weather but not necessarily climate controlled. that's a little old for me. I know for the tires that I race on, if they endure a winter of ambient temperature they're trash. Not dangerous but not at all fast. Might go ahead and replace these this year.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If your intention is to get the motorcycle stopped in the shortest distance possible, proper application of the rear brakes is required!

Therefore why would you not want to use your rear brake? It could be the difference of hitting something or not.

+100% ^^^^.

Seat time, practice, knowing when to use one brake and not the other, or NOT as hard, (road conditions) are the key.

For normal riding conditions and emergency stops, using BOTH brakes, keeping the bike pretty much straight upright is the key!

Watching for sand in the roadway, IE don't lean the bike over and grab the ft brake

With time, practice and experiance, it'll come with instinct.

 

[fb40dash5]

Using the rear brake 100% of the time sounds sketchy to me. Rear brake is one of those things that really needs to be determined by the conditions. I wouldn't necessarily want to use it in a panic stop to be honest.

I rarely use the rear brake riding around... but I should clarify that I do use rear braking. It's just from the engine most of the time. But modulating the clutch and downshifting isn't in the itenarary when you need to stop RIGHT NOW. Stopping distances definitely are shorter with rear braking, but of course when you're unweighting the rear with heavy braking you want to go real easy on the pedal.

I like FinalImpact's suggestion to drop the pedal height some, I think I'm gonna have to do that sometime today.

I hate the word "Panic Stop" because it just induces panic braking, which is slamming on the brakes which ultimately results in a crash. You can get away with it in a car, but you are certainly doomed if you do it on a bike.

Also if your intention is to get the motorcycle stopped in the shortest distance possible, proper application of the rear brakes is required! Therefore why would you not want to use your rear brake? It could be the difference of hitting something or not.

Very true, a panic-nab at the brakes is no bueno. I got into the habit of using my rear brake more often after the experience I described... not because I needed the rear brake, but because I wasn't too familiar with what X pedal pressure will do, and when.

I never took the actual MSF course since I got my license in Oregon and they have to have their own version of everything... does the basic MSF have the practice stopping with just the front brake vs. both brakes thing? The small amount of rear braking you can apply while really hauling it down with the fronts makes a surprising difference in distance.

 

[Monica A]

I am wondering if this isn't a front suspension issue instead of a brake issue. Check for fresh fork oil and adjustment for your size and riding style.

When I had my FZ6, I had a few occassions to hammer the brakes and never locked up. Read tire might have lifted a tad but I was going in a straight line (stoplight changed fast and I was flying - decided not to run it because it is a notorious intersection for crashes like that). My hubby changed my fork oil and did some adjustments to my FZ6 just before this particular incident.

 

[BlackAndBlue]

I am wondering if this isn't a front suspension issue instead of a brake issue. Check for fresh fork oil and adjustment for your size and riding style.

Well, there no issue per se. I was just wondering how the bike behaved in general.

 

[FinalImpact]

I rarely use the rear brake riding around... but I should clarify that I do use rear braking. It's just from the engine most of the time. But modulating the clutch and downshifting isn't in the itenarary when you need to stop RIGHT NOW. Stopping distances definitely are shorter with rear braking, but of course when you're unweighting the rear with heavy braking you want to go real easy on the pedal.

I like FinalImpact's suggestion to drop the pedal height some, I think I'm gonna have to do that sometime today.



Very true, a panic-nab at the brakes is no bueno. I got into the habit of using my rear brake more often after the experience I described... not because I needed the rear brake, but because I wasn't too familiar with what X pedal pressure will do, and when.

I never took the actual MSF course since I got my license in Oregon and they have to have their own version of everything... does the basic MSF have the practice stopping with just the front brake vs. both brakes thing? The small amount of rear braking you can apply while really hauling it down with the fronts makes a surprising difference in distance.

^^ Don't forget to adjust the Brake light switch!

Our classes here were a go/no-go and you pass by downshifting and Front brake only (ARC program). Anyone using the rear brake or insistent upon rear brake application would FAIL! They had the"their way" which I DO NOT agree with but did it to pass class!

I'd say there logic here was:
A) too many OVER brake the rear during panic situations and lock it. I am not immune, I've done plenty of times.
B) If you keep the Gear matched to your speed, the engine power (even if at idle) will reduce the odds of locking the rear. True statement. Basic laws of physics.

Agreed about the forks. They can consume 95% of their 5.1" (130mm) of travel when braking hard. Making the bike behave the nearly the same at each end makes it much more predictable. The front benefits from a linear rate spring and improved damping control.

OP - once you perfect straight line braking, practice it in a corner also. One day you will need it. Be smooth and don't upset the bike!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I guess for new riders, some companies prefer braking a certain way.

When I took the advanced, Police Motorcycle Class (while on motors), besides the "Iron cross" and other slow speed maneauvers, we actually did road testing (out in the boonies, no curbs).

They would have us ride to approx 40 MPH, drive off INTENTIONALLY into the grass medium and lock up the REAR BRAKE only. (simulation wet conditions/sand, etc)

Yes, it would fish around some, depending on much control you had on the bike (full dressed Harleys).

If you had any doubts about stopping and staying upright in adverse conditions (rain, sand, off road) with the REAR WHEEL ONLY, practicing this will give you confidence that it can easily be done.

While on duty, I had to use this along with the front brakes (no ABS at the time) on just rained on roads. Using both brakes, I missed a semi stopped (waiting to turn left) literally, by maybe a foot. Not using BOTH BRAKES, we would have definitly "met" (with it being my fault)..

Why someone would NOT use all the "tools" properly at their disposal when possible is beyond me..