FSM ERROR - Read or Engine Damage May Occur!!!

[FinalImpact]

All,
Here are a couple of observations about the Yamaha Factory Service Manual (FSM) which if followed MAY RESULT IN DAMAGE TO THE VEHICLE!
1) Typo stating to turn the engine counter clockwise = WRONG -> Clockwise is correct!
2) Torque Oil Drain Plug to 31 ft/lbs = cracked pan if A USED washer and Oiled Threads are present!
3) Torque Rear Sprocket Studs/Nuts Torque to 72ft/lbs = Damaged threads if GREASE/OIL is Present on threads/washer!

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1) TIMING CHAIN & VALVE ADJUSTMENT ERROR TYPO!
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Production Literature:
LIT-11616-20-60 (S2) PAGE 89 of Section 3-4 is one area...
LIT-11616-17-50 (S1) PN 5VX-28197-10, indicates the SAME ERROR

• Only rotate the crankshaft CLOCKWISE!! while performing repairs of any kind!
• The critical error tells the user to rotate the engine COUNTER CLOCKWISE! Doing this action MAY damage the Timing Chain Tensioner, timing chain guides and/or the sprag clutch used in the engines Starter Motor!

The ERROR in literature reads as follows in red:
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ADJUSTING THE VALVE CLEARANCE
The following procedure applies to all of the valves.
a. Turn the crankshaft counterclockwise.
b. When piston #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, align the TDC mark “a” on the pickup rotor with the crankcase mating surface “b”.

It should read:
** a. Turn the crankshaft clockwise. **
​

**************************************

DETAILS:
The timing chain is on the right side of the engine with the tensioner on rear of the engine block. Chains are meant to be pulled, much like a rope is pulled. As such, when the crankshaft is rotated clockwise it pulls the chain from the head, downwards to the crankshaft. Once past the crankshaft there is less load on the chain and the tensioner applies pressure to the guide to keep the chain taunt to reduce noise and wear.

Rotating the engine BACKWARDS (counterclockwise ) pulls the chain taunt against the Cam Chain Tensioner and guides. This may break the guides or depress the mechanical ratchet internal to the CCT and damage it. It also acts upon the Starters Sprag (one way clutch) spinning the starter motor backwards.

OUTLINE OF CCT, GUIDES AND CHAIN:
Right side of Engine, Cam Chain Tensioner on the Rear:



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2) OIL PAN DRAIN BOLT / DON'T CRACK THE PAN!
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Torque Spec: 31 Ft/Lbs, 43 Nm (4.3 m·kg)
- The FSM states to USE A NEW GASKET!!
- The FSM states ALL THREADS ARE CLEAN AND DRY!! < NOT OILED!
By Reusing the gasket AND having oiled threads YOU RISK BREAKING THE OIL PAN USING 31Ft/lb setting!!!

Read up on Metric ISO Bolt Torque Specification (ISO 898).
In **most cases** oiled threads require a torque reduction of 25%! In addition, a used washer is compressed, smooth and slippery when oiled. This reduces the friction between the Bolts Hex Head and the Oil Pan! Meaning: @31ft/lbs the TENSION APPLIED AT THE THREADS IS GREATER THAN THE PANS STRENGTH! This bolt only needs to stay secure and Not leak oil!

** BOTTOM LINE **
** TORQUE NEW WASHERS WITH DRY THREADS & DRY WASHER TO 31 Ft/Lbs!!!
** DO NOT TORQUE USED WASHERS WITH OILED THREADS TO 31 Ft/Lbs!!!

** RULE OF THUMB **
** REDUCE TORQUE BY 25% FOR OILED THREADS! (31 X 0.25 = 7.75ft/lbs)**
** USED WASHERS DECREASE FRICTION BETWEEN THE BOLTS HEAD AND THE OIL PAN!
** BECAUSE ITS AN OIL PAN AND OIL IS DRIPPING OUT, OIL IS ON THE WASHER!! REDUCE TORQUE BY 10% (31 X 0.10 = 3.1ft/lbs)!

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3) REAR SPROCKET STUDS/NUTS TORQUE TO 72 FT/LBS
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** 72Ft/lbs may result in DAMAGED THREADS IF THERE IS ANY TRACE OF LUBRICANT ON THE THREADS OR WASHERS!
** Clean these surfaces thoroughly with brake cleaner LEAVING NO LUBRICANT ON THE STUDS, NUTS, OR WASHERS!
** Lubricants reduce friction and the tension applied to the fasteners may exceed the actual STRENGTH OF THE MATERIALS!
** Read the FSM - CLEAN, DRY THREADS = NO LUBRICANTS!!!! THIS INCLUDES LOCTITE!

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• When A BOLT STOPS TURNING, BE CAREFUL! SOMETHING MUST GIVE!
• REMEMBER: Torque as seen by a Torque wrench is AN INDICATOR of tension being applied to a fastener!
• BOLT STRETCH is the ACTUAL MEASURE OF TENSION APPLIED TO OBTAIN CLAMP FORCE!!
• Oiled threads and washers reduce surface tension between the bolt head and the surface being clamped.
• YOU MUST ACCOUNT FOR OILED THREADS VS DRY THREADS

************************************

EDIT LIST:
2014-11-19 Add tags: 5SL-12210-10-00 TENSIONER ASSY, CAM
2014-11-19 Added new pic, Added drain plug, Added rear sprocket
2014-11-18 Reduced verbage

 

[2007Fizzer]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

FWIW, and as helpful as this information is, it's actually been done before, somewhere on this great website, a good bit prior to today. I've already annotated my Yamaha Service Manual at this exact page, with the correct instructions overlaid on that page in red ink, based on an earlier warning. But I guess this is such an important potential problem that it doesn't hurt to flag it again.

 

[ozgurakman]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

thank you for this crucial information.

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

Review of the Earlier manual "LIT-11616-17-50" (2004) indicates the SAME TYPO telling the user to rotate the engine backwards during engine service!!!

FSM FAIL!

TAG: 5VX-28197-10

 

[greg]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

is it easy to take the tensioner out to check if it is working correctly? or is there a risk of something going wrong if you take it out and bolt it back in?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

It IS possible, especially if the chain is worn, that it can skip a tooth at the crank while hanging loose.

If you can remove the side cover, zip tie the chain taught, you can now very safely pull the CCT.

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

FWIW, and as helpful as this information is, it's actually been done before, somewhere on this great website, a good bit prior to today. I've already annotated my Yamaha Service Manual at this exact page, with the correct instructions overlaid on that page in red ink, based on an earlier warning. But I guess this is such an important potential problem that it doesn't hurt to flag it again.

Thanks and I'm sure its been noted several times throughout the years, but simple searches do not yield a straight concise answer. Not with the PN or clockwise.

I also posted it here: FZ6 Technical - Yamaha FZ6 Forums - International FZ6 Motorcycle Community Forum In hopes that people doing their own work will find this. This thread is locked to keep all new information in one place.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/51785-fsm-typo-read-engine-damage-may-occur.html

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

You might do one for the rear sprocket bolt(s) torque.

The specified torque is way too high and has caused damage before..

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

You might do one for the rear sprocket bolt(s) torque.

The specified torque is way too high and has caused damage before..:thumbup:

Thanks Scott,
Can you get some details? Also, with the thread dia and pitch we could establish some limits.

Anything else found to be in error? I may look over the R6 and R1 files for the value listed.

Let us know and the original posts can include errors observed and/or change the titles slightly....

 

[motojoe122]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

Thanks Scott,
Can you get some details? Also, with the thread dia and pitch we could establish some limits.

Anything else found to be in error? I may look over the R6 and R1 files for the value listed.

Let us know and the original posts can include errors observed and/or change the titles slightly....

I checked my Haynes manual, says rear sprocket nuts....100Nm(73.75ftlb)

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

Could a mod sticky these in the tech section so no one makes this mistake? Add more as they are found?

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

I checked my Haynes manual, says rear sprocket nuts....100Nm(73.75ftlb)

BIG EDIT DUE TO HOW THIS APPLIES TO THE APPLICATION!! Original POST 2014-01-24, 7:40PM. EDIT 2014-01-25 11:59AM.

Drive sprocket nut M20 - 1, 85 Nm (8.5 m·kg, 61 ft·lb) USER ERROR! WRONG APPLICATION! This is the front Sprocket. Here the SPLINES ON THE SHAFT TAKE THE LOAD. The Nut (fastener) is not under SHEAR CONDITIONS. The pressure from the nuts torque need only keep the sprocket in place and stop movement!

CORRECTION: FROM THE FSM!
Rear wheel sprocket and rear wheel drive hub:
M10 6 100 Nm (10 m·kg, 72 ft·lb)

Also they list a ISO standard Course pitch for most fasteners: (( THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO THE REAR SPROCKET!!))
10 mm 30 Nm, 22 ft Lbs
12 mm 55 Nm, 40 ft Lbs
14 mm 85 Nm, 61 ft Lbs
EXCERPT:

GENERAL TIGHTENING TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
This chart specifies tightening torques for standard fasteners with a standard ISO thread pitch. Tightening torque specifications for special components or assemblies are provided for each chapter of this manual. To avoid warpage, tighten multi-fastener assemblies in a crisscross pattern and progressive stages until the specified tightening torque is reached. Unless otherwise specified, tightening torque specifications require clean, dry threads. Components should be at room temperature.​

HOWEVER:
The Studs and nuts securing the rear sprocket present a condition NOT LIKE MOST APPLICATIONS! If the sprocket moves under load it can shear off the studs. Granted this would take time, but there is a REASON for the HIGH Torque applied to the fine pitch threads. Its to prevent the sprocket from rotating even a small amount.

IMO the Tq to be applied is not in ERROR!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

Deleted by author.

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

EDIT: Condensed into post #16

 

[motojoe122]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

When I installed the 520 chain and sprockets, I was surprised the front sprocket nut was only 85Nm and the nut was NOT peened into the groove. I bought my bike as a hold over with 7/10 of a mile on it.

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

EDIT 2014-02-09 DRIVEN SPROCKET TORQUE:

We all agree the FSM indicates 72 - 73 Ft/lbs for the 6 self locking nuts securing the sprocket to the drive hub studs. Granted it SEEMS OVERKILL however, I do believe there is a valid reason for this. The high tension applied by the six fasteners is required so the engine torque applied to the sprocket does not shear the studs off. In this application the sprocket can not be allowed to slip as any rotation would translate to a cutting or a shear force on the studs holding it to the hub. This could result in damage to all components involved as well as safety concerns.

Without pulling the sprocket, it appears to be an M10 (10MM x 1.25 pitch). This is a steel threaded stud going into an aluminum hub.

Yes, the studs are pretty much permanent and being their not moving can hold some more PULLING load. With that in mind, the stress on those bolts are pretty much from the side (and yes, of course holding the sprocket), the sprocket pulling them SIDEWAYS, while the studs basically keep them from spinning on the aluminum hub.

While the steel on steel front sprocket bolt, M20 takes 61 foot lbs of torque, its very obvious, a bolt, almost half the size, going into aluminum SHOULD NOT take more torque than the sprocket bolt.

*The engine mounting bolts, appear to use the same size steel bolts/threads (going into the aluminum engine block) which is torqued to 40 ft lbs. For the rear sprocket, with SIX 10mm nuts on studs, locking nuts, IMO, 35-40 ft lbs, max torque is all I would put on them. With the SIX SELF LOCKING NUTS, they aren't going anywhere :thumbup:

That should be plenty, for the size, the material, application of the studs and nuts without damaging the hub/stud

*As you know, there have been numerous threads on those studs getting stripping when torqued to spec's (73 ft lbs), thus, another typo.

Obviously not the first time the FSM has had a typo, in the 07-09 PDF Yamaha shop manual, it shows the S1 swingarm NOT the S2 for setting the chain adjustment..

As another side note, the oil drain plug. The Yamaha manual calls for 31 Ft lbs. IMHO, this is very, very tight and again, its been documented of stripped oil pans. **On my Yamaha, OUTBOARD ENGINE, F150, the exact same size steel oil drain plug, into an aluminum block, factory spec's are 20 foot lbs,WTF? On my FZ, I don't put a torque wrench on it, just snug it down. There's no load on it, just so it doesn't vibrate out...

FRONT SPROCKET:
Has a hardened splined shaft. The splines are taking the rotational load of the engine torque. The M20 nut Torque at 85 Nm (8.5 m·kg, 61 ft·lb), applies tension to secure the sprocket and to some extent, limit its rotation on the splined shaft. They don't want it to get loose and wear the splines on the shaft or the sprocket.

REAR SPROCKET:
From my experience you CAN NOT COMPARE these APPLICATIONS (engine to frame vs rear sprocket to hub)! They are NOT THE SAME! And 40 lbs is NOT ENOUGH TO RETAIN THE REAR SPROCKET under maximum engine torque.
The 72 ft/lb tq specified is required to prevent movement under high torque conditions. We do not know what any given rider and bike will be subjected to, therefor the factory specified tq would be the number I would use.

JUSTIFICATION FOR REDUCED TORQUE:
Please site where this has been an issue taking into account if there was some other issue pending like damaged threads or user error exceeding the torque specified.

OTHER ITEMS:
- Agreed. FSM is not error free and per your example, the drain plug only need to stay fastened and not leak. It is not structural or securing other components. Just make sure it doesn't fall out!

- And yes, I edited upstream posts # 12 and # 14 as I CHANGED my mind as I thought about how the application here differs. Its very different than most applications.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

Deleted by author.

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

It was request that I reply to the post above.
Reference: Suggested Torque by the manufacture 72 ft/ls is too much and damages the threads. As mentioned, a quick search will find posts and threads detailing problems meeting the torque specified by the FSM. I see and agree that some people have had issues.

Lets place some perspective on the application and look beyond our walls to the greater population of bikes as the basic hub and stud design of the rear driven sprocket is used on various Yamaha models.
YAMAHA FZ6, R1 and R6, R6S all specify 72 ft/bs. 5SL-25366-00-00 YAMAHA CLUTCH, HUB Note: all models call out the same torque specification!!

This covers a very large install population. Review of other forums finds there are cases of damaged threads whereby studs/nuts stripped across all applications. There are also lots of cases where it was torque'd successfully to the Tq specified.

IMO - just because isolated instances occurred, it is not justification to reduce the Tq value specified by the manufacture. Doing this could place some folks at risk. We are talking maybe ~200 bikes that had issues vs an install base of what ~100,000 bikes?? (Just a wild guess). Follow the link if you like, that hub was used from 2003 to 2011 on many bikes by Yamaha. Obviously not all of them had the sprocket off and posted threads about it failing.

My advice: should the locking nuts be removed, make certain neither of the threads are damaged by the self locking nut. If it looks questionable in anyway, replace it. The stud unscrews. If you choose to use a lower tq than specified by the FSM, do so at your own risk.
Also - follow the criss cross pattern moving the torque up in equal increments. Example - 35, and then 10 to 14 ft/lb increments. Repeat pattern in increment to desired final value.

Again, it was asked repeatedly that I respond to this. That is my response. The failure of few does not justify changing the Tq from the value specified by FSM. That is My Opinion.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Re: Fsm error; read or engine damage to cam chain tensioner may result

Retracted this posts