HELP!!! - with my timing chain

trepetti

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This has always been the bane of my existence.

I did my valve check today (no adjustments needed) and for the life of me, i cannot the timing chain installed correctly. I did not remove the cams.

Can someone please give me the start to finish steps to get the timing lined up correctly?

Question: The crank wheel - there is a 'T' and a line. I assume that I line up the 'line' with the case seam.

From there, (with the cams out) please give me the step-by step to get this done right.

Thanks.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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(1) Get the crank on TDC (as you noted and pictured above). This is also on page 202 on the S2 Yamaha manual.

(2) Make sure cams are aligned (as shown below) with the cam chain TIGHT ON THE FORWARD MOST RUN and then between BOTH CAMS(pay attention to the CAM markings and cam lobes also as pictured):



(3), The excess chain slack, on the "back run" will be taken up with the tensioner.

(4) Once assembled, rotate the crankshaft CLOCKWISE (The Yamaha manual incorrectly states CC) and check that all alignment marks are dead nuts on. ANY INTERFERENCE, STOP and re-check-somethings not right..

***Pic's expire in 3 days so print em out***

.
 
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trepetti

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I have the manual, but I was looking for details not in the manual.

When I lace up the chain, I will make sure the forward run is taught. But when I tried that, I got a droop between the cams.

So tomorrow I will remove the cams and start again. With all I have read, It seems easy enough, so I am hoping I am overthinking this.

Thanks Scott.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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With the front run tight, and the exhaust cam lined up, that cam is good..

Then, check the intake cam with you, MANUALLY keeping slight pressure on the intake cam(CC).
The cam mark should line up with the head surface (as pictured).

**Now, IF THE CHAIN IS WORN/STRETCHED, all your cam marks will be off a very little bit-the chain, being "longer" will "put the cams" slightly off.

If you install the chain a full tooth off, (either cam), it will be VERY, VERY APPARENT.

Remember, W/O the tensioner installed, the chain will droop, period. It's up to you to keep tension on the chain (just by hand) for lining up marks.

.


.
 

trepetti

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Got it. So what i am going do is:
Remove both cams
Line up TDC line
Install the exhaust cam with the chain as taught as I can
Install the intake cam with as little droop as possible.
Push the intake cam guide to eyeball the timing
Install the CCT and rotate the engine clockwise carefully a number of times, checking the timing marks every 720 degrees
And if I feel interference. Cams come out and start again.

Let me know if I missed any secret ingredients.

Now, I also have a brand new timing chain and new front, rear and upper guides. I had planned to install them next time I needed to remove the cams, which just became today, so I guess this is a great time to install them.

This should not make this and more difficult, right?

And on that note, I assume that I need to remove the timing wheel to do that. Doesn't look like I can wiggle it between the wheel and the case.

To complicate things a little, the drive chain is off the bike, so I can't use the tranny to hold the crank still to remove the wheel nut. I figure with the nut at 25ft lbs I can remove it with my Makita impact wrench.

Any suggestions or critiques from anyone are welcome.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Sounds like you have it down...

Your impact should pop that nut off W/O an issue.

And yes, now is the time to replace guides and the cam chain.

Read up on the large front guide-I never swapped mine however make sure the head doesn't require removal. Some engines, the head holds that guide in place...

The rear guide (with tension) gets most of the wear and tear just due to the design and constant pressure put on it from the tensioner...



.
 

FinalImpact

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I don't recall how many miles are on your bike but if the T-marks do not align by 1/4 to 1/2 tooth, the cam timing is retarded and you loose a little bit off HP. Mine at 25k, off just slightly like maybe the width of the line on the intake.

Warning, a lot of words here but it only takes a few minutes to do this. Once you see the relationship, it goes quickly.


As for alignment, you only have to remove the exhaust cam, any more is just extra work. I would not advise removing the gears from the cams while in place. It's a total PITA and far more work than simply pulling the exhaust cam.

The unmentioned trick to getting it back in time is this:

INTAKE:
Remove the spark plugs, exhaust cam and CCT.
Position the intake on its marks pointed towards the rear.
Rotate the CrankShaft (CS) past TDC a couple of chain links in the CW direction.
Lift the chain and drop it over the intake sprocket. Now apply pressure to the Chain Guide throw the CCT hole and rotate the CS CCW to tension the chain. With moderate force on the guide, does the crank stop turning when it reaches TDC? If yes, you are done. Mark the Intake chain and gear with a Silver Sharpie dot. Mark the chain link at the TDC position. You can't see the teeth so just mark the link across from TDC case line.
If off, repeat until close.

AGAIN, your goal here is to get the relationship of link count to crank and intake cam within a link of correct when the marks align. The easy way to do that is to move the crank past the TDC mark with the CCT out, drop the chain on, Apply tension to guide, and rotate the CS backwards until the chain is taunt and the marks align. Once done, move to next step.

Keeping in mind this relationship may be off a tooth as we really don't know the position of the guide/CCT extension ect.

EXHAUST:
Our first goal here is to simply take all of the slack out of the back of chain with the CCT out. So, with one hand pick up the chain where the exhaust cam should be keeping it tight on the CS.
ROTATE THE CRANKSHAFT BACKWARDS (CCW) until it just starts to move the intake. i.e. chain is tight on backside. This frees up the chain so you can insert the exhaust cam. This is a little tricky and may take a couple of tries but the plan is to insert the Exhaust Cam (EC), such that when rolled into place you the intake and exhaust sprocket marks align on the head with the chain tight.
Don't worry if the first try is off. Just get a tooth count relationship of how far off you are. Just saying you may not get home run alignment this try.

When installing the EC you lift the chain dropping it onto the sprocket position such that WHEN SEATED IN THE JOURNALS, THE INTAKE TO EXHAUST LINK COUNT IS CORRECT SO THE MARKS ALIGN ON THE HEAD when the chain has tension. That is your guide when I say roll the cam into place. Now evenly snug down the caps.

Is the chain snug between the Ex and Intake? If yes AND the marks are aligning, seat the caps fully. IF NO, count how many teeth you are off.

Manually apply tension to chain guide while rotating the the CS clockwise!!! If the crank stops turning at TDC mark (meaning you took up the slack) you are done!!! Insert the CCT making certain it is fully retracted while securing the bolts.

If off, repeat process by removing CCT, rotate CS backwards making slack on exhaust side, but not enough to move the intake. Remove the exhaust cam and move X number of teeth you were off and roll it back into place.

The process goes really quick once you see that MOVING the CRANK and playing with chain slack is in your favor. And with the plugs out, there is Zero concern for harming the guides or anything else.

GL and let me know if that makes sense. Yes, too many words but the concept is what you need.


EDIT: i made some minor adjustments to clarify the process.

FWIW you could start this process with the intake out and basically reverse the chain slack, chain tensioning process. I didn't as the caps and cam are more obstructed. That said if you already have the intake out, aligning the exhaust first would go real quick by just parking the EC on the mark, spin the CS CCW, drop the chain on and turn the CW. If the CS stops on TDC, you know the link count. If short, add a link, if it goes past TDC subtract a link.
 
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trepetti

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Thanks Randy, I have read this over and seems to make sense.

Before I get started I am going to spin off the trigger-wheel bolt and drop in my new chain and guides. I am assuming will need to remove the intake cam to replace the Intake-side guide and chain, but that is not a problem for me. Let me know if you know otherwise.

I won't be able to torque up the trigger wheel until I get the drive chain back on, so I'll just need to attach a note to the ignition to remind me not to hit the starter :)

Lastly, I have 1 of those Ebay 4 degree-advanced trigger, but I don't want to introduce too many variables. I'll do that after I get the whole thing buttoned up. Not in any hurry.
 

FinalImpact

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Thanks Randy, I have read this over and seems to make sense.

Before I get started I am going to spin off the trigger-wheel bolt and drop in my new chain and guides. I am assuming will need to remove the intake cam to replace the Intake-side guide and chain, but that is not a problem for me. Let me know if you know otherwise.

I won't be able to torque up the trigger wheel until I get the drive chain back on, so I'll just need to attach a note to the ignition to remind me not to hit the starter :)

Lastly, I have 1 of those Ebay 4 degree-advanced trigger, but I don't want to introduce too many variables. I'll do that after I get the whole thing buttoned up. Not in any hurry.

Sounds like there is *NO need to pull the trigger wheel then if the new one isn't going on. So you could just mock this up and mark your chain at all of the relevant OEM lines if you are so inclined.

How many miles?
 
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trepetti

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Sounds like there is *NO need to pull the trigger wheel then if the new one isn't going on. So you could just mock this up and mark your chain at all of the relevant OEM lines if you are so inclined.

How many miles?
Question Randy, are you saying that I can replace the cam chain WITHOUT removing the trigger wheel? Is that something you've done, heard about?..

Waiting for the day to warm up here before I start round 2.
 

trepetti

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Major thanks Randy. It took 2 tries but it is now spot on. The original chain was stretched, but that was not the real reason this was giving me such trouble. Your instructions were enormously helpful. You should make that a sticky. Now I can continue the spring rebuild!
 
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