Help with R6 rear shock and forks that were installed on my FZ6 before I bought it

Tom24GR

New Member
Hello everyone,

I recently bought a 2007 FZ6 and it has front forks from what I believe to be a 2003-2004 R6 (with the blue preload adjuster) [pics included] as well as a Penske gas/oil shock that was made for an R6 of that generation. Part of the inside storage compartment had to be cut up, because I assume that that was the only way the shock could fit. It seems clear to me that these have never been serviced. I have tried adjustment preload, compression, and rebound to the stronger settings but it is still bouncy (and double bounces when I manually compress the forks by pressing the handlebars. The difference between the strongest and lightest preload settings is not big, and basically feels like its doing nothing. Additionally there is some stiction as the forks move. The rear gas shock is exhibiting the same symptoms and additionally is not holding nitrogen gas (leaking).

I have a few questions:

1) Since an R6 shock has already been fitted, would I be able to go out and buy the normal r6 shock (the one that only uses oil) and put it in instead of the Penske. I don't like the complication of the Penske and the gas canister take up a lot of room and I can't put in a helmet lock. Services on the regular r6 shock will be good. If it cannot fit does anyone have any other suggestions that would fit (fully adjustable).

2) Does anyone have any idea of why the adjusters on the front forks really don't seem to do much? Could it be that the oil is broken down? Or maybe the springs inside aren't able to cope with the added weight of an FZ6 plus the fact that the rider is 200lbs?

3) I see that the factory fork oil for the r6 is yamaha suspension fluid 01. Does anyone know what weight oil this is. I realize that fork oil weights aren't standardized but I can find a suitable alternative as long as I know more or less what weight it is.

4) Does anyone know of any good brands for new fork seals, etc. If I end up servicing the front one I will probably do the seals.

Thanks in advance.

Pictures :
 

Gary in NJ

Junior Member
Site Supporter
Those are nice (dare I say coveted) upgrades on your bike. It's hard to say "why" things aren't working without having the opportunity to inspect things in person. Not withstanding, here are my thoughts.

Forks: Since you bought the bike used, you have no idea what springs are installed and if the rate is correct for your weight and riding style. That's reason one to open them up. Reason two would be to do an oil change. I believe that the OEM oil is a 5wt fork oil. Of course, you are free to use whatever weight oil you choose, but it will effect the valving...which leads me to reason three to open the forks up. If the clickers don't have any effect, then something is wrong. It could be tired oil, wrong oil, a shim stack that wasn't assembled correctly, or the needle was inserted the wrong way. Who knows? You will when the forks are serviced.

Shock: Looking at the photo, there is corrosion at the adjustment ring - which makes me thing that the shock does in fact have a leak. The good news is that the Penski shock is completely rebuildable and it should be returned to normal service. That's a GOOD shock...don't be so quick to ditch it. If you don't like the location of the remote reservoir then put it somewhere else. It may require a longer hose to accommodate an alternative location. The good news is that the shock requires service and the person who rebuilds it can also modify it to meet your needs. Just like the forks, make sure that the spring rate is correct for you. Oh, I don't think that is an R6 shock. Penski (and Fox) made those shocks specifically for the FZ6...sadly for only a few years.
 

Tom24GR

New Member
Oh that's good to hear. If that is the case I will keep it then. I'm pretty sure there is a leak because I see oil buildup all around the shock. So in order,

1- Do they sell rebuild kits for the forks directly from Yamaha? In terms of the shock I saw on Penske's website that they sell the rebuild kit. Any recommendations on companies for new springs.

2) Do you have any experience with adjusting the penske shock? I am trying to figure it out but I couldn't find any youtube videos on it.

I really wanna sort this out as I bought this bike for $2400. It had brand new pilot sport 5's. But it needed spark plugs, clutch pack, clutch cable, brake fluid, coolant, new turn signals. The bike runs BEAUTIFULLY now. No misfires, power delivery is smooth, etc.

But I noticed that the suspension if off big time. Stability doesn't feel good and the ride is just too soft. I hit a speed bump and the back end moved up and down so much that it threw my body up off the seat (in the air).
 

Tom24GR

New Member
Also the reason I said it was an FZ6 shock was not only because thats what the owner said (not always reliable) but if it was made for the FZ6 wouldn't he have been able to install it without tearing up the storage compartment.
 

Gary in NJ

Junior Member
Site Supporter
Yeah, the lack of damping in the shock would make it feel as though you are riding a 400 pound pogo stick. Yamaha does sell a seal kit. So do aftermarket companies such as RaceTech. You can also get springs from Racetech. Before you order anything. get the forks off and see what is in there. The spring rate will be etched on the spring. The problem with the forks could simply be blown seals. If there's no oil, there's no damping.
 

Gary in NJ

Junior Member
Site Supporter
Also the reason I said it was an FZ6 shock was not only because thats what the owner said (not always reliable) but if it was made for the FZ6 wouldn't he have been able to install it without tearing up the storage compartment.
That's the usual fitment for that shock. While made for the FZ6 (or repurposed by Penski for the FZ6), the OEM shock didn't have a reservoir of any type, it is a low-spec twin-tube shock. So there has to be some type of modification for the reservoir. I'm thinking there is room under the seat for the reservoir. People typically put them outside as your is to show them off. There's really no reason to have it out like that.
 

Tom24GR

New Member
Oh I get you. I would rather put it in because as it is now the whole storage compartment is useless. If I were to put anything in there it would fall down in the street. Plus if it is located in the compartment I can adjust the adjusters on the reservoir itself much easier.

Lastly, do you think I should get springs for someone who is over my weight (i.e. I am 200 and get springs for someone who is 220) to compensate for the fact that the FZ6 is heavier than the R6 those forks were designed for?

Also, is there anyway I can support the bike without having a dedicated triple tree stand? I have a swingarm, spool, and front fork stands but I'm missing the triple tree stand and would like to avoid buying if something else that is decent and safe is viable.
 

Gary in NJ

Junior Member
Site Supporter
Spring selection doesn't take into account where the forks came from. It looks at the total system weight of bike and rider. I would hope that the person who undertook the fork conversion took the time to properly spring the forks. The wet weight difference between an FZ6 and an R6 is less than 40 pounds (456 vs 418) - so even if springs were not selected...it shouldn't be off by much. Unless of course the R6 owner was 150 pounds and had the bike properly sprung.

I believe what you are feeling with the forks is a lack of damping. The oil in the forks controls the motion (the rate at which the forks compress and rebound) while the springs simply hold everything up. Even with blown fork seals you can check the static and race sag of the bike to see if the springs are the proper rate.
 
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Tom24GR

New Member
Gotcha! I don't know the person who did this with the forks because he was the first owner. I bought it from the second owner so I haven't met the guy to understand what weight he was more or less.

To be honest I might just pickup two springs that I found from the company you suggested to me before. I used their calculator putting in weight (and adding 15 pounds for the difference in weight between the fz6 and the r6).It told me to get the 1.0 spring.

If I am going to go through the trouble of rebuilding these forks I might as well put in a spring for my weight and be done with it so I can enjoy the bike.
 

Tom24GR

New Member
No not yet. I ended up taking the clutch cover off again and dropped a dowel in the oil pan.......................................................................................................................................

After removing the exhaust, oil pan, cleaning all the sludge out, and finding the dowel, I reassembled everything and STILL NO LUCK. Its not the clutch pack- I checked the disks compared to the old ones and everything is the same. The pressure plate is lined up correctly too. The springs are properly torqued as well.

In addition I bought a new clutch cable (motion pro) and I have to adjust it SUPER tight otherwise it won't disengage period. I'll have it up on stands and unless its SUPER-DUPER (hahahha) tight it just won't disengage period. The wheels will keep spinning through gear changes (because its in the air, if it was on the ground it would have stalled out quite suddenly). That makes me believe that the clutch pull rod on the inside is not fully in the cover. Not enough leverage to fully and quickly disengage it.

My next idea is to take the clutch arm and spring off, put the cover back on and then tighten the cover as much as I can using the clutch arm without the spring. Then once i really tighten the cover ill put the spring back and try it again.

The other thing I realized is that is I have the dot slightly behind the arrow on the clutch cover- it produces enough leverage- but the problem there is that at the cable's loosest setting- I am unable to put it on as there isn't enough slack.

What do you think about the 1st and 2nd ideas?

P.S. Should I copy and paste this to the other thread for others to see in the future?
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
Quote:
My next idea is to take the clutch arm and spring off, put the cover back on and then tighten the cover as much as I can using the clutch arm without the spring. Then once i really tighten the cover ill put the spring back and try it again. End quote..

Part #22 rotates and will take up slack if you turn it in the correct direction when assembled. I don't see a problem assembling as such. Get the play out of #22(in the correct direction), then install the return spring and arm getting marks to line up..


Part #7 is the bearing that if bad (kinda rare it happens) can cause your issue, it's not pulling the clutch hub out fully.

All the parts you replaced in the clutch (which exactly), were they OEM or aftermarket?

If aftermarket, I'd be measuring the thicknesses compared to the old (or better yet
YAMAHA spec's per the manual.

**The engage/disengage zone is super short (about 1/3 of your TOTAL handle bar lever movement). Your using the ENTIRE range and it's not enough...

***What your describing sounds like the clutch plates/frictions, etc are TOO thick (or an extra plate /friction in there) and all the pull your currently getting is still not enough.

There's only so much room to disengage before clutch springs start binding.

Re-assembly should be by the book, and I would not assemble as your thinking-. Don't think you'll hurt anything but that very likely is NOT the issue.


Was the clutch slipping before or what was the issue? Did you check flatness for warpage for the steels?











Capture.JPG
 
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trepetti

It's all good!
Elite Member
Site Supporter
No not yet. I ended up taking the clutch cover off again and dropped a dowel in the oil pan.......................................................................................................................................

After removing the exhaust, oil pan, cleaning all the sludge out, and finding the dowel, I reassembled everything and STILL NO LUCK. Its not the clutch pack- I checked the disks compared to the old ones and everything is the same. The pressure plate is lined up correctly too. The springs are properly torqued as well.

In addition I bought a new clutch cable (motion pro) and I have to adjust it SUPER tight otherwise it won't disengage period. I'll have it up on stands and unless its SUPER-DUPER (hahahha) tight it just won't disengage period. The wheels will keep spinning through gear changes (because its in the air, if it was on the ground it would have stalled out quite suddenly). That makes me believe that the clutch pull rod on the inside is not fully in the cover. Not enough leverage to fully and quickly disengage it.

My next idea is to take the clutch arm and spring off, put the cover back on and then tighten the cover as much as I can using the clutch arm without the spring. Then once i really tighten the cover ill put the spring back and try it again.

The other thing I realized is that is I have the dot slightly behind the arrow on the clutch cover- it produces enough leverage- but the problem there is that at the cable's loosest setting- I am unable to put it on as there isn't enough slack.

What do you think about the 1st and 2nd ideas?

P.S. Should I copy and paste this to the other thread for others to see in the future?
Wanted to mention 1 thing.....

When the oil is cold and the bike is on a center or rear paddock stand, the rear wheel will still spin with the clutch lever pulled in. This is because the thick oil will still transmit some force from the drive to the driven plates even when the pressure on the clutch stack is released. There is very little torque transmitted, so is the wheel were on the ground it would not propel the bike forward.

Make sure you are not being fooled into thinking the clutch is not releasing.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
Wanted to mention 1 thing.....

When the oil is cold and the bike is on a center or rear paddock stand, the rear wheel will still spin with the clutch lever pulled in. This is because the thick oil will still transmit some force from the drive to the driven plates even when the pressure on the clutch stack is released. There is very little torque transmitted, so is the wheel were on the ground it would not propel the bike forward.

Make sure you are not being fooled into thinking the clutch is not releasing.
His handlebar lever "travel" should not be the entire range and then adjusted super tight(no play) to disengage. Somethings not right..

**There's another thread addressing just the clutch issue: https://www.600riders.com/threads/help-with-getting-clutch-cover-back-on-after-clutch-disk-replacement-cable-has-no-tension-whatsoever-issue-is-not-the-cable-itself.59758/


.
 

Tom24GR

New Member
Hey guys,

I replaced my clutch initially because it was slipping a little and I just bought the bike which had 22,000+ miles on it so it was also a bit of preventative maintenance. Sure enough when I went in one of the friction plates had snapped in pieces (and sure enough when I took my oil pan off I found one of those pieces at the bottom of the pan).

I replaced the clutch disks, friction disks, and springs. The friction disks and springs are EBC and they are the thickness as the original ones. I also bought 7 new plates which were OEM thickness (from a third party brand). I kept the 1 OEM metal plate that was thicker than the rest (as the first one you put in the basket is I think 0.3mm thicker). The springs are a claimed 10% stronger but okay I don't mind that. The springs are the same as OEM in terms of measurement. Everything I bought was made for the 2007 FZ6.

I put the disks in this order : Larger metal plate, friction, metal, friction, metal, etc. etc. etc. ending in a friction one (total amount of disks is 16).

The bearing seems to be in good shape the little balls are not seized and I never took it off to begin with.

Lastly, I realize that when the bike is cold the wheel will move but if its just fluid flow you will be able to stop it with your hand. In my case unless I tighten the cable like crazy the wheel will move and you can't stop it with your hand (i.e. its fully engaged).

One question, are all the friction plates the same size? I would think so because the kit made for the bike came like that but I just wanna make sure.

Thanks again for all your guys' help.
 

Gary in NJ

Junior Member
Site Supporter
As I posted in the other thread, there are different sized plates that make up the stack. There are two outer plates friction plates at each end of the stack and 6 inner friction plates each 2.9 to 3.1 mm. There are 7 clutch plates (2.0mm ea) between each friction plate and an inner clutch plate (2.3mm) in the basket.

I think the exploded view at RevZilla is better than the one in the FSM:

 
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trepetti

It's all good!
Elite Member
Site Supporter
Hey guys,

I replaced my clutch initially because it was slipping a little and I just bought the bike which had 22,000+ miles on it so it was also a bit of preventative maintenance. Sure enough when I went in one of the friction plates had snapped in pieces (and sure enough when I took my oil pan off I found one of those pieces at the bottom of the pan).

I replaced the clutch disks, friction disks, and springs. The friction disks and springs are EBC and they are the thickness as the original ones. I also bought 7 new plates which were OEM thickness (from a third party brand). I kept the 1 OEM metal plate that was thicker than the rest (as the first one you put in the basket is I think 0.3mm thicker). The springs are a claimed 10% stronger but okay I don't mind that. The springs are the same as OEM in terms of measurement. Everything I bought was made for the 2007 FZ6.

I put the disks in this order : Larger metal plate, friction, metal, friction, metal, etc. etc. etc. ending in a friction one (total amount of disks is 16).

The bearing seems to be in good shape the little balls are not seized and I never took it off to begin with.

Lastly, I realize that when the bike is cold the wheel will move but if its just fluid flow you will be able to stop it with your hand. In my case unless I tighten the cable like crazy the wheel will move and you can't stop it with your hand (i.e. its fully engaged).

One question, are all the friction plates the same size? I would think so because the kit made for the bike came like that but I just wanna make sure.

Thanks again for all your guys' help.

I know it sucks, but if you have ANY doubt about the parts, I would start fresh. I recently replaced my clutch and was looking at the EBC replacements. After getting some very good advice from other members on this forum, I ended up with all Yamaha OEM parts and never regretted it. I know you have money already invested, and you might be close to a solution, but don't hesitate to chuck it all and start fresh if there are issues that you cannot fix. Chalk the spend up to an educational expense.
 

Tom24GR

New Member
Well. After so long I have finally gotten it working!!!! I went in and measured the disks and they were more or less the same as the old ones. The friction plates were 2.9mm and the old metal disks were 1.8-1.9mm. New metal disks were 1.9mm and I'm chalking that up that difference to the fact that the old metal plates are 13 years old.

My problem was in fact the cover. When I had put it on in the past I had the rod positioned either fully loaded (to the left) or not at all loaded (to the right). This time I just had the rod face me and when I put the cover on there was no struggle. I now have the cable fully loosened on the middle adjuster and only slightly adjusted on the main adjuster (with the proper free play) [brand new cable] and I am able to fully engage and disengage just like before. I don't have to overtighten the cable just for it to be able to disengage. Now its just like normal.

Thanks for all your help throughout this. I'm glad I didn't have to throw away any of the new clutch supplies that would have been a bummer.
 

FinalImpact

2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone
Super Moderator
Site Supporter
Back to the shocks!!!
The rear may never work proper without re-valving it as it was never meant to work via direct action. I have a thread on this based on an R1 shock I re-valved which works extremely well.

That said, the damping on the nose is very fixable. Mind you, measuring the static Static SAG will help you know your spring rates and how close they are for you and the bike.
I have many posts on SAG and balancing the the bike. Once dialed, they really are a great bike. I'm 200 w full leathers and boots, the ONE FZ spring works great on the rear of an custom R1 shock. It's all doable...

As others will attest, I'm not here much so include @ user name... and we can get you dialed...
 

Tom24GR

New Member
So in fact the shock is really made for the R6? We were trying to figure this out above. I was told it was a Penske shock for an r6.

My problem with the front is that the adjusters don't seem to do much. The preload adjuster is on max setting and the rebound and compression are 1 below max and it still seems a little soft. Then if I were to try and dial it down it would become super soft. In other words there are 2 "settings" semi-stiff or super soft. The lowest and middle preload settings seem to have no difference. That's why I was thinking that I needed a service (oil, seals etc.) Have you ever seen something like that? Also the left rebound adjuster doesn't make a clicking sound like the other (very weak and squishy adjuster).

When you say @ user name do you mean my name on here? @Tom24GR
 
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