How to re-build your stator

greg

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..or alternator/magneto/generator whatever you want to call it, though stator is the correct term :)

Note that these instructions apply to the FZ6, but it could be used for other bikes provided you follow the table below. It's assumed you have correctly diagnosed a broken stator (make sure you measure it's output in AC!)

Tools/equipment needed:
- Allen key set (or the big one from your bike tool kit)
- Pliers
- (glass) needle nose pliers (with a smooth grip, i got some from maplins for £5)
- 500g of 18 gauge (1mm) insulated copper wire, I used two 250g coils
- epoxy resin (i used car fiber glass repair kit stuff, it says it resists oil/chemicals/water etc). Araldite didn't seem to be temperature resistant enough
- T30 torx screw driver
- a mechanic friend on standby
- soldering iron
- silver solder (the best for this apparently, i used lead-free tin stuff)

Step 1: Remove the stator assembly
- Unbolt the stator cover on the left of the bike
- Trace the wire up under the tank and unplug it
- You might need a tap with a rubber mallet, but you should be able to pull the whole thing out now
- bear in mind that it's being held in place by some strong magnets too
- there's a magnetic gasket that you can reuse
- watch out for cogs falling out, but they are easy to put back in
- use a jug or something to catch the dribble of oil that will come out

Step 2: Unscrew the stator
- This might be tricky, the 4 torx (T30) screws inside are all threadlocked in, be sure to use good quality tools, and make sure you have a good hold on them
- I ended up slicing my hand open and going to A&E during this step, so be careful of sharp edges.
- I also had to get the wire cover drilled out by a mechanic as it was well and truely stuck. I could probably have gotten away with leaving it in, cutting the wire and soldering it back on later

egH2h.jpg



3) Uncoil the stator
- Cut the 3 wires connecting to the cable, try and cut them on the wire
- Then try and find the last strand to be wound on and start unravelling it all using a pair of pliers
- keep hold of the plastic insulating bits around the wires, we'll use them later
- IMPORTANT: try and remember how many turns are on each coil, also try and remember how they are connected, I didn't do this properly and hence had a lot of problems. Though now I know how it works, so the most important thing to know is the number of turns, as this equates to the output voltage
- This will take an hour or so, try and leave the insulation on the iron core

4) Repair the core
In my case one of the wires had shorted out and burned a hole through the insulation. I mixed up some epoxy and covered all the exposed bits of metal i could find next to where the wire would be coiled.

5) A discourse on inductors and stators
Before we start winding we need to understand the interaction between the magnets and inductors (coils).

Our bikes create 3 phase voltage. Each of the 3 wires coming out of the stator is generating an AC voltage, each of which is out of phase with the others. There are 3 different wires that wrap around the iron core. All the wires are connected together at one end, this act like an internal ground, this is called a WYE configuration. It is probably possible to use a delta termination too, which is supposed to give a smoother output and be more fault tolerant. I just copied off what yamaha did originally. To wire in a delta fashion each end of the wire is connected to the start of the next (1-2, 2-3, 3-1), and at these points we tap the wires for power (i.e. connect up the external wire too)

The next big issue which I have is that most internet guides (usually for fireblades), suggest using an ABCABC pattern, which won't work on our bikes. This is because we have a different number of magnets (you can see them inside the flywheel if you look closely)

I also need to explain the naming convention. ABCABC means we have 3 different wires, (A, B and C), and that we connect 6 of the poles on the stator in that order (direction doesn't matter). So pole 1 is A, pole 2 is B, pole 3 is C, pole 4 is A, etc. The capital letter means each is the same direction. Lower case would mean the opposite direction

For the FZ6 we use the following pattern: AaABbBCcCAaABbBCcC
That is we have an 18 pole iron core, with groups of 3 poles all using the same wire, and alternating direction
i.e.
Pole 1: Wire A, Clockwise
Pole 2: Wire A, Counter-Clockwise
Pole 3: Wire A, Clockwise
Pole 4: Wire B, Clockwise
Pole 5: Wire B, Counter-Clockwise
Pole 6: Wire B, Clockwise
etc.

Each wire is wrapped 24-25 times around each pole

eg:
jnNZDh.jpg


As I understand it groups of alternating coils on the same strand act like a single coil (but we don't need to know that)

For other bikes you could count the magnets and number of poles on the stator and work out the configuration using this table:
http://forumrc.alexba.eu/nutpol_e.htm
Presumable other bikes only use 12 magnets, and not the 16 of the FZ6.
Judging from the R6 stator I have this is also the case too.

6) The wiring
Pick a place to start and choose a direction, as long as you do it all the same way it doesn't matter.
- Start with a pole, and leave about 6"(15cm) of spare wire and begin wrapping from the center
- It's important to keep these as tight and neat as possible, I used the roll the wire came on to keep them tight, and using my fingers and some non-metal tools to push the wire around.
- You should be able to get 10-11 complete revolutions around each pole on the first layer.
- After the first layer work your way back to the centre, and make sure none of the wires overlap, as this wastes space.
- Wrap the wire a total of 24.5 complete revolutions around the core.
- I counted each half revolution as a "turn" (how many times i turned the core over), and did a total of 49 turns per core
- Try and finish your 3rd layer in the center
- 1 or 2 turns difference shouldn't make too much of a different, but try and keep it the same as the spec.
- For each group of three you should be changing direction, going CW, CCW, CW
- After the group of 3 is done, make a wire go around the inside to the next set of pole and begin again
- I used the pliers to carefully compress some of the windings, which gave me plenty of space for the others
- Leave another 6" of free wire when you finish
- Repeat this for the other 3 cores

7) Joining it
- Lay the wire in place for where you want it to be, the end of the wire will all be connected together on the side of the stator with the wire holder. The other ends will be soldered onto the main wire, try to have these ones finish close to the wire clip so that the wire will reach.
- Once you have the right length, clip the wires to the right length, and sand the enamel off the ends of the wire
- Join the 3 ends together (on my diagram A12 B15 C18), use pliers to wrap them together and solder the ends
- Cover any exposed wire with some of the cloth from the start, and try and bend them down a slot so that it won't come loose
- Solder each of the remaining ends to the main wire, I found this a bit tricky as they didn't want to stick. It's best to put the cloth insulator on before you solder, you can then move it over the join, and tuck it under the clip and keep it secure

8) Test it
measure the resistance between each of the 3 wires, and also the core, they should be the same (<1ohm), and there should be no continuity to the metal core. You should also check this as you assemble it too

9) Sealing it
- mix up some more epoxy and coat the wires and any potential dodgy areas with epoxy, being sure to leave the inside bit of the core clean

10) install it
- screw it back in, make sure the epoxy is dry and the wire is out of the way
- i used blue threadlock to stop the bolts coming loose

11) test it
- fire the bike up, measure the output voltage in AC between each connector, it should be 30-60V, plug it in and check your battery is charging


Below are some of my pictures as I was wiring it. You can see how I did the first strand, and how I kept the wire tight
Spot the mistake in the 1st picture though, I wound 2 adjacent coils in the same direction, and had to unwind it and do it again, luckily i spotted it straight away.

8hNZOh.jpg

8hNZOh.jpg

l6Lmwh.jpg

keep the wire pulled tight with each turn, or you will run out of space
HxgP5h.jpg

mi16Hh.jpg
 
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greg

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some more build pics including a diagram of how each pole fits together

remember 24-25 wraps per pole, and lowercase means change direction

i also tested mine before i epoxyed it, just in case it didn't work again!

jnNZDh.jpg
 
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greg

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here's a couple of my earlier mistakes. I copied off the R6 stator, which used an ABCABC... star pattern. With this config I only got 6-10V output from the stator.

look how messy and untidy the wiring it, and how i struggled to wrap it properly because of this


btw shout if you have any questions, i probably missed some stuff

mistake, I copied the R6 pattern thinking it would be the same (it's not)
RXB8fh.jpg

eLrZFh.jpg
 
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Cloggy

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A big thanks for writing this up for us Greg, I hope I'll never need it but it's really handy to know :thumbup:
BTW I've got to spread more rep around before giving it to Greg again.
 
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fazil

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Great info with nice pictures.
This will be very usefull for the guys who like diy repair staff.
Thanks Greg...
 

Wolfman

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Nice write up...looks like a fair bit of work, but definitely do-able. Thanks a bunch for sharing.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 

greg

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it's not that bad, maybe 4-5 hours work if everything goes smoothly

winding the coils is the hardest bit, and takes about 10-15minutes per coil.
 

Nelly

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Cheers Greg,
Defo one I wouldn't try on my bike. I'd have a bash on Jamie's though.
Nice write up.

Nelly:thumbup:
 

Motogiro

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Greg,
Awesome! Thank you for taking the time to do and post this procedure. It adds to our great searchable knowledge base. :rockon:
 

Shinn

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I remember having to do a small one in electrical school... so evil. Though I personally would just buy a new one, saving many curse words and other broken objects, awesome job!! I am very impressed with the detail of the write up too.
 

greg

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I remember having to do a small one in electrical school... so evil. Though I personally would just buy a new one, saving many curse words and other broken objects, awesome job!! I am very impressed with the detail of the write up too.

i'd prefer to buy one too, but nobody seemed to have any! and yamaha wanted £314 for a new one ($400-500)

though i did get one from fazil in the end, but i also had a track day on wednesday, so i had a bit of a deadline

still feel like i've missed the odd bit out from the guide though, but the gaps should hopefully be common sense :)
 

fazil

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Greg,

What happened to the stator?
Do you use the re-wired one or did you replace with the one that i sent.
Do you recommend re-wiring it if it burns someday?
 

greg

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not had a chance to use your one yet, i'm back home from amsterdam this weekend, so will inspect how mine is doing.

now that i understand how it all works i would probably re-wind again in future, it's fairly easy, just a little time consuming

my only real worry is that the epoxy might melt/break apart (it's supposed to be chemical resistant), or that something comes loose inside (i've threadlocked the bolts)

do you need the stator, or was it a spare? i'd be interested to see if the voltage output from mine is the same as the OEM one
 

fazil

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It was a spare of course ;) the original one is still on the bike.
But i'll probably rewire it with the help of your write-up if it gets burned someday. :D
 

greg

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tbh i think they are generally pretty reliable, if yours gets burned i suspect i could sell one back to you ;)
 

FinalImpact

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I missed this the first round through. Way to dig in and get it done! I'm impressed! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thinking bigger, what is the systems current limit if we wind it ourself? Just a glance at the wire says the current produced was not limited by that gauge wire. So is the regulator or the rectifier that limits the wattage output?

Granted a larger dia wire will take more space and limit the number of turns but the gauge looks plenty large enough that it should handle another 100 watts. . .

Hmm . . .

Thanks for sharing!
 

Motogiro

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I missed this the first round through. Way to dig in and get it done! I'm impressed! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thinking bigger, what is the systems current limit if we wind it ourself? Just a glance at the wire says the current produced was not limited by that gauge wire. So is the regulator or the rectifier that limits the wattage output?

Granted a larger dia wire will take more space and limit the number of turns but the gauge looks plenty large enough that it should handle another 100 watts. . .

Hmm . . .

Thanks for sharing!



As far as current if we think about cross section of wire and the current it is is rated at to safely pass, we should be able to pass 3 times that current from the stator being it has 3 windings. The limiting factor would probably be the R/R.

We discussed this on another thread recently. Our regulators are shunt type which basically run the unneeded current to ground. This energy is turned to heat and dissipated through a heat sink. Without knowing what the current the regulator is capable of dissipating we run the risk of over current and failure.

There are series type regulators and depending on the the current they can pass they might be a better design. When the series type reaches threshold it should open and less heat and waste of energy should be the result. :D

Here's a link: http://roadstercycle.com/index.html
 

FinalImpact

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As far as current if we think about cross section of wire and the current it is is rated at to safely pass, we should be able to pass 3 times that current from the stator being it has 3 windings. The limiting factor would probably be the R/R.

We discussed this on another thread recently. Our regulators are shunt type which basically run the unneeded current to ground. This energy is turned to heat and dissipated through a heat sink. Without knowing what the current the regulator is capable of dissipating we run the risk of over current and failure.

There are series type regulators and depending on the the current they can pass they might be a better design. When the series type reaches threshold it should open and less heat and waste of energy should be the result. :D

Here's a link: Roadstercycle-Index


Now we're talking about free HP power if we redesign it! :/ I'd guess this system is employed due to the fixed magnets tho which likely dictate it runs at full output all the time. What isn't needed is passed to the shunt. Unlike an auto where the current output can be increased by applying more current to the field coils.
 
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