Low RPM Sputtering

[TownsendsFJR1300]

by ???

.

 

[vrtulnik]

by ???

.

To be continued...

I measured second coil, and has the same resistances.


I thinking about do compresion test at home.. I can buy gauge for compresion testing, it is not very expensive.. And also Leak down gauge for petrol engines (with extension for 10mm threads)...

 

[trepetti]

by ???

.

....why my backspace key didn't work...

 

[vrtulnik]

I tried measure temp from right side of bike and #4 cylinder has the same temp like #1 at the same place - outer side of pipe.
I measured temp to closer head or directly head. #1 and #4 have also above 220 C!! #2 and #3 have higher temp about 20 - 30 C, what can be normal, because there are inner pipes.

I read a lot about measuring cylinder temps today...


I have nothing else left just wait for gauges for throttle body sync..

 

[vrtulnik]

by ???

.

I disassembled Throttle body and I found a lot of carbon on intake valves and little on walls of throttle bodies under butterflies.

my question is:
how can I clean them? Yes, I can put Techron into petrol, but i don't know whether is effective for a lot of carbon.
Is it possible spray chevron to valve chambers (100 % concentration, not with petrol) more times for clean rough carbon? I'll let it work few minutes (10).
It will not damage any rings, surface, valves...? it seems be aggressive fluid.

Or I can mix 50% petrol and 50% Techron concentrate in spray bottle.

What chevron is good for it?
Techron Concentrate plus gasoline
Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel system cleaner


After this procedure I can pour chevron into petrol for clean whole fuel system, pistons, piston rings.....


I disassembled valve cover and I tried check valve clearance.
Intake valves seems in tolerance, but all exhaust valves are below (0.23) value. I have problem tuck 0.20 scale.
***I have scale with 5 hundreds (0.05, 0.10, 0.15, 0.20, 0.25..).. I have to buy with 2 hundreds for exact measuring.

I checked timing and here i am unsure. Mark on Exhaust crankshaft is not corresponding with Intake crankshaft. Exhaust mark is higher about 2 mm against intake mark (intake mark is aligned with the edge of the cylinder head)..

You can see in the photo green mark below T-mark. When this green mark is aligned with crankcase, intake and exhaust marks are corresponding together.

Is it okay, or no?








Thank you.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I think I would try brake cleaner for those areas.

The valves themselves/down inside the head, I'd crank the engine till the cylinder your working on, the valves are closed(keep brake cleaner from pouring into the combustion chamber, hydraulic lock, etc).

Where you can get to with a tooth brush would work too. If the valve stems are super caked up, being very careful with a flat screwdriver, you should be able to knock off the big stuff.

I would also use an air compressor after each "cleaning" to blow as much crap out as you can..

I don't think I would "flood" each cylinder with anything. I'd be concerned about it getting past the rings, into the crankcase, potential "dry start" and again, potential for hydraulic lock.

Should you try it, pull all the sparks out and crank over to expel any excess cleaning fluid.


Lastly, Yamaha sells a product called Ring Free. It's a combustion chamber / fuel system cleaner (used a bunch in the marine industry). I personally use it in EVERY gas powered machine I own as well as customers machines I work on.. IME, highly recommended.
*Not noted on the container ( I had to do a bunch of research) but it can be used in a "shock" treatment at 2oz / 1 gallon of fuel.. It's not cheap, 32 oz for about $50.00..

 

[vrtulnik]

I think I would try brake cleaner for those areas.

The valves themselves/down inside the head, I'd crank the engine till the cylinder your working on, the valves are closed(keep brake cleaner from pouring into the combustion chamber, hydraulic lock, etc).

Where you can get to with a tooth brush would work too. If the valve stems are super caked up, being very careful with a flat screwdriver, you should be able to knock off the big stuff.

I would also use an air compressor after each "cleaning" to blow as much crap out as you can..

I don't think I would "flood" each cylinder with anything. I'd be concerned about it getting past the rings, into the crankcase, potential "dry start" and again, potential for hydraulic lock.

Should you try it, pull all the sparks out and crank over to expel any excess cleaning fluid.


Lastly, Yamaha sells a product called Ring Free. It's a combustion chamber / fuel system cleaner (used a bunch in the marine industry). I personally use it in EVERY gas powered machine I own as well as customers machines I work on.. IME, highly recommended.
*Not noted on the container ( I had to do a bunch of research) but it can be used in a "shock" treatment at 2oz / 1 gallon of fuel.. It's not cheap, 32 oz for about $50.00..






View attachment 74367

Thank you very much.

Reply to:
I don't think I would "flood" each cylinder with anything. I'd be concerned about it getting past the rings, into the crankcase, potential "dry start" and again, potential for hydraulic lock.

I wanted make this: Close intake valves (#1 cylinder), pour fuel aditive on carbonized valves (not much), stay it work and after few minutes pull out via syringe. I can buy small brush and i can clean it manually after pull out aditive.

Yamalube is not available in my country. I can not wait 3 weeks for it. Techron is available in my country.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You should be ok with that. Any loss of carbon would be an improvement.

Just make sure all cleaning fluids are cleared before cranking the engine over with spark plugs in.

 

[vrtulnik]

You should be ok with that. Any loss of carbon would be an improvement.

Just make sure all cleaning fluids are cleared before cranking the engine over with spark plugs in.

Spark.plugs are out.

Could you please reply on my question about timming? It is 2 posts above (in post about fuel cleaners). I edited post.

Thank you.

Here are next photos.
Exhaust and intake marks are corresponding together, but see where is T-mark.

Under T-mark is green mark.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The marks are for setting timing referencing cylinder #1. Other valves may be open.

So right now, cyl #1 is at TDC (compression stroke), all valves in THAT CYLINDER are closed..

As you have your valve cover off and can see the valves-open or closed, when doing the rest of the cylinders, rotate the engine, say for cyl #2 until you see all of #2's valves CLOSED/cam ramp AWAY from opening in the valves, IE valves are all closed in that cylinder- Then have it..

BTW, did you check you valve clearances while there?

.

 

[vrtulnik]

The marks are for setting timing referencing cylinder #1. Other valves may be open.

So right now, cyl #1 is at TDC (compression stroke), all valves in THAT CYLINDER are closed..

As you have your valve cover off and can see the valves-open or closed, when doing the rest of the cylinders, rotate the engine, say for cyl #2 until you see all of #2's valves CLOSED/cam ramp AWAY from opening in the valves, IE valves are all closed in that cylinder- Then have it..

BTW, did you check you valve clearances while there?

.

Yes, it is 6 posts above. Intake values seems okay, but all exhaust valve values are under recomended values (lower than 0.20mm)...


About posted photos in previous post and 6 post above:
I meant marks. T-mark does not corresponing with Exhaust and intake crankshaft marks.

When I have T-mark "on position", Intake crankshaft mark is corresponding with the edge of the cylinder head, but Exhaust crankshaft mark is 2-3mm higher against Intake crankshaft mark.

When I set Green mark (under T-mark), intake and exhaust marks are okay - corresponding together.

This parts somebody disassembled / checked already, because i saw silicone instead of gasket.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

For properly setting/checking you should go in this order:

(1) Crank set on TDC, (compression stroke #1 cyl), use the line next to the "T", get that dead nuts lined up with the mark on the block... That is your starting point.

(2) Exhaust is next.. That should be lined up with the head(as you posted)-NO slack in the chain.

(3) Intake is last. That now(all slack out of the chain) should be on the mark.

Note, chain stretch /wear could have the marks on the cam's NOT exactly line up.
If the / a cam is off a tooth, the marks would be significantly off for that camshaft.

**Exhaust valves too tight, would cause running issues and eventually, burnt valves.
I would address that. Buy a shim kit unless you have access to shims locally.

Please check again making sure you ONLY turn the crankshaft CLOCKWISE.

 

[vrtulnik]

For properly setting/checking you should go in this order:

(1) Crank set on TDC, (compression stroke #1 cyl), use the line next to the "T", get that dead nuts lined up with the mark on the block... That is your starting point.

(2) Exhaust is next.. That should be lined up with the head(as you posted)-NO slack in the chain.

(3) Intake is last. That now(all slack out of the chain) should be on the mark.

Note, chain stretch /wear could have the marks on the cam's NOT exactly line up.
If the / a cam is off a tooth, the marks would be significantly off for that camshaft.

**Exhaust valves too tight, would cause running issues and eventually, burnt valves.
I would address that. Buy a shim kit unless you have access to shims locally.

Please check again making sure you ONLY turn the crankshaft CLOCKWISE.

Maybe we may not understand.

When I have T-mark (line) on position, Exhaust and intake crankshaft are not in the same line. it it maybe harder see on the photo.
Intake line is 1 mm under corner of crankcase and Exhaust mark is 1 mm above corner of crankcase.

When I have both Exhaust and intake marks on the same line, than I have T-mark 2 mm higher... Like it is on the photo below.

Chain is tense enough. Maybe is stretched out and therefore there is difference. Is it possible synchronize via TCT?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I understand.. Your not doing it correctly.
Start with the crank TDC ON THE MARK, then exhaust, then intake.

It MUST be checked IN THIS ORDER..

Doing what your doing is frankly, useless..

.

 

[vrtulnik]

I understand.. Your not doing it correctly.
Start with the crank TDC ON THE MARK,
.

And when I have crank TDC #1 cylinder on the mark? I don't want nothing else, just check timing.. I am confused.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

And when I have crank TDC #1 cylinder on the mark? I am confused.

(1) Crank set on TDC, (compression stroke #1 cyl), use the line next to the "T", get that dead nuts lined up with the mark on the block... That is your starting point.

(2) Exhaust is next.. That should be lined up with the head(as you posted)-NO slack in the chain.

(3) Intake is last. That now(all slack out of the chain) should be on the mark.

Note, chain stretch /wear could have the marks on the cam's NOT exactly line up.
If the / a cam is off a tooth, the marks would be significantly off for that camshaft.

 

[vrtulnik]

(1) Crank set on TDC, (compression stroke #1 cyl), use the line next to the "T", get that dead nuts lined up with the mark on the block... That is your starting point.

(2) Exhaust is next.. That should be lined up with the head(as you posted)-NO slack in the chain.

(3) Intake is last. That now(all slack out of the chain) should be on the mark.

Note, chain stretch /wear could have the marks on the cam's NOT exactly line up.
If the / a cam is off a tooth, the marks would be significantly off for that camshaft.

Answers are RED.

(1) Crank set on TDC, (compression stroke #1 cyl), use the line next to the "T", get that dead nuts lined up with the mark on the block... That is your starting point.
= Crank is set on TDC (line next to T-mark against line on crankcase) - #1 cyl.

(2) Exhaust is next.. That should be lined up with the head(as you posted)-NO slack in the chain.
= Exhaust camshaft mark is 1mm above cylinder head. No slack in the chain

(3) Intake is last. That now(all slack out of the chain) should be on the mark.
= Intake camkshaft mark is 1mm under cylinder head. No slack in the chain


Note, chain stretch /wear could have the marks on the cam's NOT exactly line up.
If the / a cam is off a tooth, the marks would be significantly off for that camshaft.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Perfect...

The 1 mm you have in "offset in the cam marks" is from simply cam CHAIN WEAR / Stretch..

Nothing to loose sleep over, timing is good...

I would address the exhaust cam tolerances..

.

 

[vrtulnik]

Perfect...

The 1 mm you have in "offset in the cam marks" is from simply cam CHAIN WEAR / Stretch..

Nothing to loose sleep over, timing is good...

I would address the exhaust cam tolerances..

.

Thank you.

As i mentioned in post above. I have only scales with 5 hundreds. 0.05, 0.10, 0.15, 0.20 etc...

It was too hard use 0.25 scale on exhaust valves, so 0.20 is maybe accurate, maybe little below 0.20.. hard to say.

I measured following values:
#1
Intake: 0.15 0.15
Exhaust: 0.20 0.20

#2
Intake: 0.15 0.15+
Exhaust: 0.20 0.20

#3
Intake: 0.15 0.15
Exhaust: 0.20 0.20

#4
Intake: 0.15 0.15
Exhaust: 0.20 0.20

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

.2 MM is still too small for the exhaust..


From my Yamaha shop manual:



Do you have a shop manual?