Neutral light problem on Yamaha FZ6 S2, year 2007

[Premik91]

Hello
First of all please excuse me, for asking questions right away, but i really need your help - maybe someone has some similar experience.
The bike is a 2007 Yamaha FZ6 S2, naked, with ABS. It has heated Oxford grips which i have not fitted - i do not know if it plays any role in this situation.
I have a problem with the neutral light in my cluster. It does not come on at ignition and it does not work at all.
Everything else works fine.
What could be the problem and what should i be looking at in hope to try to fix it.
Thank you very much and regards from sunny Europe.

 

[FinalImpact]

Hello and welcome from across the big pond...
Above the swing arm is a single wire from a switch near the middle of top of the transmission. It leads to the starter lock out switch assembly under the left pod.

Confirm it is plugged onto the switch and that the wire is not broken or pinched. You will have to lift the fuel tank for a thorough inspection.

With clutch disengaged, will the engine start?

 

[Premik91]

Thank you, I will have a look and report back.
If the bike is in neutral, then it does start with the clutch disengaged. If the bike is in gear, and i drop the side stand, the motor cuts out.
Is there any way of first checking if the LED itself works without opening the cluster and circuit in it ?

 

[Monica A]

Thank you, I will have a look and report back.
If the bike is in neutral, then it does start with the clutch disengaged. If the bike is in gear, and i drop the side stand, the motor cuts out.
Is there any way of first checking if the LED itself works without opening the cluster and circuit in it ?

It cuts out when you drop the side stand for safety. So you don't try to ride off with the kickstand down which could cause a problem.
Sorry I am no help with your other issue. There are a lot of guys here with a lot of knowledge about this stuff. My advice would be to try what they offer. I had an 07 too but never had this problem. I never had any problem with my bike for the two years I had it. :cheer:

 

[FinalImpact]

It does sound like the switch is working and the LED in the cluster is not lighting as intended...

If it were mine;
Lift tank, disconnect battery.
Left fairing. Unplug and inspect the connector going to the cluster. Look for odd colors, growth, pins out of place.
Under left pod. Inspect large connector into safety switch. It the big black square with many wires into it.
Move on to the cluster itself. Unplug and inspect mating pins.
If you find something, clean it, apply dielectric grease, connect battery and test it.

If none of that sheds any light ( ), we'll ground the cluster, power on the NS light. If that doesnt work I suggest you remove the cluster and open it. Looking for damage.

Do you have or can you get access to a hand held multimeter?

 

[Wolfman]

It does sound like the switch is working and the LED in the cluster is not lighting as intended...

If it were mine;
Lift tank, disconnect battery.
Left fairing. Unplug and inspect the connector going to the cluster. Look for odd colors, growth, pins out of place.
Under left pod. Inspect large connector into safety switch. It the big black square with many wires into it.
Move on to the cluster itself. Unplug and inspect mating pins.
If you find something, clean it, apply dielectric grease, connect battery and test it.

If none of that sheds any light ( ), we'll ground the cluster, power on the NS light. If that doesnt work I suggest you remove the cluster and open it. Looking for damage.

Do you have or can you get access to a hand held multimeter?

Opening up the instrument cluster is pretty easy, my guess is that it may be as simple as that, the wiring on FZ6's is pretty robust in my experience, unless it has been tampered with by some well meaning, but ham fisted, spanner twiddler. I would start there, and work my way back, a voltage tester on siad wiring might be a good idea too...

 

[FinalImpact]

Opening up the instrument cluster is pretty easy, my guess is that it may be as simple as that, the wiring on FZ6's is pretty robust in my experience, unless it has been tampered with by some well meaning, but ham fisted, spanner twiddler. I would start there, and work my way back, a voltage tester on siad wiring might be a good idea too...

Yer alive!

 

[Wolfman]

Yer alive!

Yeah, and still stuffing about with Yammies, doing a rebuild over winter on my 91 FZR1000, and that is gonna take a bit of work, I just know i cant stop till it's properly decent.

 

[FinalImpact]

Opening up the instrument cluster is pretty easy, my guess is that it may be as simple as that, the wiring on FZ6's is pretty robust in my experience, unless it has been tampered with by some well meaning, but ham fisted, spanner twiddler. I would start there, and work my way back, a voltage tester on siad wiring might be a good idea too...

And you know Cliff is catching up!!!!
YOU better start posting again!

Ya, I've repaired c0ckroach damage at circuit board (pcba) level on one. Pretty easy to access and open.

I too think it could be at gauge level...

 

[Premik91]

I have a multimeter.
Will go trough the connectors, but i think there is not a problem there, it is a very clean bike, looked after.
But i have seen, upon inspection the cluster backing cover - there was some welding to the plastic, and some silicone. It looks scary, but i think this is a good sign, that somebody probably wanted to keep the water out. As i sad, all of the lights work, all the safety switches and lightning works, there is no other electrical problem, there is no volt drainage anywhere...
My first guess was and still is, that probably the light itself is at fault, as i do not see any other way.
The heated oxford grips - is it possible that somebody "used" the neutral light wire to install them ? I have never done this, so i do not know what wires do you need, that is why i ask.
How do you suggest to directly try the LED itself ?
Thank you all for your help.

 

[Motogiro]

:welcome: to the forum!
These tests should be performed after you have checked the plug connections for the instrument cluster and the plug at starter cut-out relay assembly.
Coming out of your instrument cluster there will be 2 different plugs that carry power and signals to the safety interrupt which they call the starter circuit cut-off relay. One plug should have 4 wires but it is a 6 wire plug assembly. 2 of the pins in that plug are not used. There should be a light green colored wire. With the key turned to on (no engine running) put the bike in gear. Measure voltage on that light green wire. You should see positive voltage DC on that wire. If you see voltage put the bike in neutral and that voltage should now be gone or 0.0 volts DC. If there is no voltage on the light green wire then there is an open in the neutral indicator light or the associated circuit in the instrument cluster. This may be repairable.

If you do have positive voltage on the light green wire while the bike is in gear but it does not go to 0.0 volts and the safety circuit works, preventing the bike from being started in gear, a diode or a path for the neutral light in the starter cut-out relay assembly is open/damaged.. If the safety part of the starter cutout relay assembly prevents the bike from starting in gear and you get a positive voltage on the green wire we can probably fix this without buying a new starter cut-out relay assembly.
If you have voltage on that light green wire, run a jumper from that light green wire to ground on the chassis or engine and see if the neural indicator light comes on.
First do the tests and get back to us.

 

[FinalImpact]

FWIW: the back of the cluster can not be sealed or moisture will remain trapped and kill it. In the clusters shell are ports to atmosphere with a Tyvek like breathable mesh. It lets moisture out but is supposed to stop its ingress.

If the display has moisture in it (is it ever foggy inside?), it may be a good starting place.

Any chance this bike was faired and perhaps the cluster was glued after an incident involving gravity?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

, upon inspection the cluster backing cover - there was some welding to the plastic, and some silicone. It looks scary,.

I would be looking real hard under that damaged cluster cover. If something hit it hard enough to crack it, damage behind it is certainly very possible.

And lastly, did you simply unhook (from the back of the engine) the wire to the neutral switch and GROUND IT.
With the ignition on, in neutral, the neutral light should come on (the switch itself would have failed)

 

[FinalImpact]

I would be looking real hard under that damaged cluster cover. If something hit it hard enough to crack it, damage behind it is certainly very possible.

And lastly, did you simply unhook (from the back of the engine) the wire to the neutral switch and GROUND IT.
With the ignition on, in neutral, the neutral light should come on (the switch itself would have failed)

If the switch failed it would not start or it would show an error as the ecu looks for state change that mirrors the conditions of the clutch, side stand, gear selection...

It knows its not in neutral when the cranks CPS sensor and final drive Sensor for road speed create pass/fail data as in it knows the speed of crank vs 1st, crank vs 2nd, crank vs 3rd gears...
It seems isolated to gauge wire to the cluster or the cluster itself based upon the info provided.

To your point, sealant on the cluster is a giveaway! Look there!

 

[Premik91]

Hello
I have performed the tests regarding the light green wire in the cluster "feed" plug. I have 6 and 7 wires on those plugs...
I do not have the voltage on the light green wire when i put it in gear. So i guess there is a problem in the connection itself. The cluster backing plate is damaged where the screw attaches to it, so that is the reason for silicone - there is no damage to the circuit and there is no dampness or condense there...
What should be the next step ? I have lifted the tank, but cant seen to find where the wire bundle with the light green wire is located - it is all taped up with electrical tape.
Thank you

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The end of that harness should be under the BATTERY TRAY (under the tank).

Pull that, then follow your cluster harness downward till you find the connector..

 

[Motogiro]

The light green wire gets its voltage from the cluster not from the harness. Turn the ignition key to on position and ground the light green wire. Does the neutral indicator light come on?
If all the other indicators and functions of instrument cluster are working then the light green wire should have potential and when grounded, should light the neutral indicator light. The light green wire I am speaking of will be coming from the instrument cluster. The service schematics shows this wire is attached to a 6 pin plug where only 4 wires are going through this plug. The service schematic could be wrong but if you have the light green wire coming out of the instrument cluster you should have the correct wire. If you do have the light green wire you should have some voltage present when the key is on and the bike is in gear. To make sure, ground the light green wire to a good ground on the engine or frame. If there is no neutral indicator light after you ground the light green wire and the other lights and functions are working in the cluster there is a problem in the cluster.

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[Premik91]

Hello
It took me a little longer to test the light, but after grounding it, it still does not light up. So i guess there is a definite problem with the light, that is the cluster, itself.
Good luck finding a replacement with ABS. I looked everywhere, but not a single one with ABS. If somebody have a lead, where i could look or ask... Please advise.
Thank you all very much for the help.

 

[Motogiro]

Hello
It took me a little longer to test the light, but after grounding it, it still does not light up. So i guess there is a definite problem with the light, that is the cluster, itself.
Good luck finding a replacement with ABS. I looked everywhere, but not a single one with ABS. If somebody have a lead, where i could look or ask... Please advise.
Thank you all very much for the help.

If the instrument cluster is serviceable and can be opened you may be able to repair it. It may be just the LED lamp is faulty and can be replaced.

 

[Premik91]

Thank you for your help and advice.
The bike is in everyday use and i will tackle the diagnose and repair of the cluster/LED when i have replacement...