Not starting and relay (maybe) chattering - where shall I start

headache5678

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I've changed the battery a couple of times on my 2004 FZ6. It's run fine every day for the last 3 months since I last renewed the battery. The battery is good but I haven't checked the connections yet.

But 4 times in the last 2 weeks, after a short run, the bike wont start. I hear the clicking noise like when the battery is flat (which it isn't). . I notve the red engine light is on - that's the red one above the green neutral light. The chattering sounds as I try to start the engine. So I leave it for a minute, maybe rock the bike from side to side - or just wait - then the bike starts fine.

My questions:

s
  • should a fault code show on the speedo / LCD unit
  • shall I just replace the Starter Solenoid Relay to eliminate that and check all connections at the same time
  • or is it likely to be a physical problem with the starter motor - say worn brushes, commutator or worn teeth ?

I'm not expecting a 100% answer, just a few tips, please.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Literally put a wrench on your battery cables and make sure their tight and the red plastic cover is
NOT inbetween the cable and battery.

If that doesn't fix it and it sounds is like a light tick, look at your starter relay.

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2004 FZ6 - FZ600SS ELECTRICAL 2 Diagram

Part #2, under the tank.

Lift the tank and see if you clicking is coming from there. You should have 12+ volts going into it from the battery and at the starter, WHILE CRANKING, SHOULD have 12 volts as well at that terminal.

I suspect the contacts inside the relay are carboned / burned up
 

headache5678

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Thank you,

I've tightened and checked the leads to / from the battery and the starter.

I then checked DIAG mode (for the first time). This showed:

d61 - alternating every 2 seconds between 12 and 30

d62 - 2
d70 - 0
d01 - 16
Co

So while the starter relay solenoid remains my favourite suspect, code 30 suggests a problem maybe with the lean angle cut off switch.

I wonder if a faulty / sticking lean angle switch gives a clicking / chirping sound like I get with a flat battery when trying to start ? Any ideas would be appreciated.

I think I'll still replace the starter relay solenoid anyway

Thanks
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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I've fell over and had that switch kill the ignition.

Stood the bike up, it started immediatly but I never heard it click.

And I doubt it will, as you lean over past a certain angle, its going to disconnect the ignition, PERIOD (and kill the engine).
there's no reason for it to tick..

What you can do to by pass the relay, turn the ignition on and run a jumper cable from the pos side of the battery direct to the starter.

It should crank over normally and run if the ignition is in the run position.
 

IanHoots

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My 05 FZ6 won't crank intermittently too. I just ordered a solenoid off eBay for $10. I'll throw that at it before looking any harder at the starter. They are easy to change and are a carbon burnt contacts is a common problem for them.
 

FinalImpact

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The tip over sensor is not suspect. Its simply stored in memory.
And because it initiates the start sequence further proves it is not causing the issue. If triggered, it would not do anything.

As for the CEL being on, that #12 and the fact that you rock the bike and it starts is of greater concern.
#12 is the CPS sensor telling the ecu the crankshaft position. It will not run if that sensor fails.

I suggest you lift the tank, disconnect the battery and at a minimum remove and inspect the large 34 pin connector from the ecu and the CPS sensor. CPS may have two plugs IDR?? Look for growth, corrosion, burning, discoloration. Clean with MAF cleaner and soft brush.

As for jumping the solenoid, simply pull the cover back and use jumper clamp to short one pole to the other. Make sure bike IS IN NEUTRAL!!! Every time you make this connection the starter should operte.
If it doesn't, feel all the large wires and ends both +12 and gnd for warmth. Heat or warmth is resistance. Resistance is lost current not going to the starter.

Report back...
 

headache5678

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After clearing all fault codes, cleaning ECU contacts and trying to replace starter relay solenoid (failed as wrong part supplied) bike ran well. But yesterday morning the bike ran roughly but no fault codes were showing. So I dropped bike off to a motor cycle garage which diagnosed and replaced faulty starter motor brushes.

The bike engine certainly turned over faster. The garage said the engine was running ok. But it sounded as though is was running on only 3 cylinders and broke down in the freeway. I phoned the garage and it's collected the bike. Fault codes 33 and 34 then showed up. Which I think means only 2 or less cylinders were working. The CEL then stayed on.

I'm waiting for the garage's call today or maybe Monday. It may be I had multiple faults or maybe I or the garage dislodged some undeseat connection like the ECU when working on it.

Still I'm away this weekend relaxing and forgetting about my bike, Brexit and world problems. A beer sounds good. Then I'll check with the garage in 3 days the revert. Thanks.
 

FinalImpact

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Thanks for the update! Hopefully the cure is a simple fix. Perhaps induced by mechanic.

Also, it is worthy to note that the error 12 is very likely a product of the starting system (starter in this case) not turning the engine over consistently at the minimum velocity (rpm). It is symptom vs an actual fault.
 

headache5678

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Re: Not starting and relay (maybe) chattering - problems identified, fix in course

Good morning folks,

An update / outcome :

Fault
  • code 30 was historic. I|'d dropped the bike, once, years ago. Once cleared, the code didn't come back
  • Fault code 12 - CPS - didn't come back once cleared. It seems clear that Motorgiro's helpful comments explained it - failure to start properly left crank very slighlty in wrong position once.
  • Startin
g from warm (in particular) problems were caused by worn and dirty brushes in starter motor, now replaced / fixed.

New error codes 33 and 34 (ignition / coil not working re multiple cylinders) had me stumped. Bike started for seconds then died. A garage I have used for years, and trust, tells me its a failed CDI. They checked this by substituting my CDI with that from another working Fazer ("the Donor bike"). My bike then worked faultlessly but the donor bike then exhibited the same 33/34 faults.

I'm due to collect my bike from the garage later this week.

Thanks again guys (+ girls?) for your very helpful guidance.
 

Stringbean781

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I've fell over and had that switch kill the ignition.

Stood the bike up, it started immediatly but I never heard it click.

And I doubt it will, as you lean over past a certain angle, its going to disconnect the ignition, PERIOD (and kill the engine).
there's no reason for it to tick..

What you can do to by pass the relay, turn the ignition on and run a jumper cable from the pos side of the battery direct to the starter.

It should crank over normally and run if the ignition is in the run position.

Hello!! You recently helped me with a fuel pump issue on my FZ6 and I am back again for more! I greatly appreciate how active and helpful you and Finalimpact are on this forum! I am sure you have relieved so much of people's stress-inducing issues lol. So my bike has been running great, I keep it in a cover shed and keep it as clean as I can. The other day, I went to start it and I got the rapid clicking noise and error code 12 on the dash. I checked the resistance of the crank shaft position sensor and that checks out. The clicking is the starter relay 100%. I have changed that with no luck. I still need to check/clean the ECU terminals. I would also like to bypass the relay to make sure that it's not the starter. Could you clarify the technique for this? Couldn't I just unbolt the two terminals from the starter relay and touch them together? Thanks!!
 

Gary in NJ

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Well, right now your starter isn’t engaging. But hitting the starter button still puts a small load on the battery.

Regarding the battery, is this a lithium battery? I’ve never seen an AGM or other similar chemistry hold a static charge of 13.4 volts. Perhaps your multimeter isn’t properly calibrated.
 

trepetti

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Well, right now your starter isn’t engaging. But hitting the starter button still puts a small load on the battery.

Regarding the battery, is this a lithium battery? I’ve never seen an AGM or other similar chemistry hold a static charge of 13.4 volts. Perhaps your multimeter isn’t properly calibrated.
I am lead to believe that each plate in the lead-acid battery produces 2.1 volts, with a 12v battery containing 6 plates with a max capacity of 12.6v.
 

Stringbean781

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Okay so I feel stupid for not even trying to jump the thing, but I put a portable jumper to the battery and it cranked!! I got thrown off by the 12 error and the starter motor not even engaging/starting(additionally, its only 2 years old). So it runs now. I presume I have a parasitic draw or the battery is toast. I dont have a load tester(is there another way to load test it?). I am going to charge it, and see if it'll start on it's own power. Thank you for suggesting the battery!
 

trepetti

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Okay so I feel stupid for not even trying to jump the thing, but I put a portable jumper to the battery and it cranked!! I got thrown off by the 12 error and the starter motor not even engaging/starting(additionally, its only 2 years old). So it runs now. I presume I have a parasitic draw or the battery is toast. I dont have a load tester(is there another way to load test it?). I am going to charge it, and see if it'll start on it's own power. Thank you for suggesting the battery!
So the next challenge is to determine if the bad battery is the symptom or the problem. I never replace a battery without also checking the charging system. It saves you the trouble of putting in a new battery then having the same problem a few days later.

With the bike running, check that your charging system is putting out over 13v at idle and in the vicinity of 14-14.5 volts with the engine running above 2000 rpm. These numbers are approximate, just need to make sure that the charging system is able to provide a high enough output to keep the battery topped up.
 
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