Reusable Filters: Thoughts?

[Taz3]

Surprised to not find any threads on this already. I've been considering dropping the hunny or so on one of them, been trying to get some opinions and reviews. Anyone out there have experience? Just want to chime in?

I really like the environmental aspect.... I HATE throwing out a hunk of metal and paper saturated with oil every oil change... not to mention the waste in production as well.

Also, I've been using the Purolator 14610's from the US, not available in CAN, and it's a pain in the ass to try to remember to bring back a bunch when I'm travelling down there.

Seems they are higher quality as well, which is a big bonus. Here's one I'm looking at:

Flo Oil Filter - webBikeWorld

 

[FinalImpact]

If it meets the specs, it could work. I would want a sure means of removing the debris it traps! As in reverse flow to back it out. I mean, if it traps stuff and you soaked it, where is **the stuff** when done soaking? Likely still in it until flushed out and most of us don't have a means to actually flow anything through the media either direction to get it out of element.

- That said, I can only imagine that **some of the trapped particles** will simply be introduced back into circulation. If you don't mind taking the time to clean it thoroughly, by all means - Go forth. But read the link below first.
- JM2C It seems like a great idea, but without a proper means to clean it, I'm not sure you are doing your vehicle a **value added Service**.

WIX filters have great reputation. They are strong durable, and creditable supposedly filtering to 21 microns and contain the debris not allowing it back into circulation while not degrading flow; Hint: "microns" nothing we can see so how do you know if you get that filter clean? What is your plan?

Some filter specs; should meet most of these...
Part Number: 51358
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure-PSI: 265
Max Flow Rate: 8-10 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
( )* denotes metric

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1289/oil-filter-efficiency[/FONT]
Understanding Filter Efficiency and Beta Ratios

Filter ratings are an often misunderstood area of contamination control. On several recent occasions, I have witnessed someone describing a filter by its nominal rating. A nominal rating is an arbitrary micrometer value given to the filter by the manufacturer. These ratings have little to no value. Tests have shown that particles as large as 200 microns will pass through a nominally rated 10-micron filter. If someone tries to sell you a filter based on an "excellent" nominal rating of five microns, run away.

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[Dry Martini]

Filters are cheap enough that I have no problem using "one an done" disposable filters. Even more so if you follow the OEM change interval of changing the filter, every other oil change.


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[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've been using the K&P ,SS, re-usable filter for years on both my old FJR and FZ since 12-2010.

It also works as an oil cooler and the flow far exceeds paper filters. Its not cheap but its already paid for itself for me. Easily taken apart for inspection, it also has a magnet in it for additional protection.

Technical Information | K and P Engineering

 

[Taz3]

If it meets the specs, it could work. I would want a sure means of removing the debris it traps! As in reverse flow to back it out. I mean, if it traps stuff and you soaked it, where is **the stuff** when done soaking? Likely still in it until flushed out and most of us don't have a means to actually flow anything through the media either direction to get it out of element.

- That said, I can only imagine that **some of the trapped particles** will simply be introduced back into circulation. If you don't mind taking the time to clean it thoroughly, by all means - Go forth. But read the link below first.
- JM2C It seems like a great idea, but without a proper means to clean it, I'm not sure you are doing your vehicle a **value added Service**.

WIX filters have great reputation. They are strong durable, and creditable supposedly filtering to 21 microns and contain the debris not allowing it back into circulation while not degrading flow; Hint: "microns" nothing we can see so how do you know if you get that filter clean? What is your plan?

Some filter specs; should meet most of these...
Part Number: 51358
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure-PSI: 265
Max Flow Rate: 8-10 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
( )* denotes metric

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1289/oil-filter-efficiency[/FONT]
Understanding Filter Efficiency and Beta Ratios

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Aw man, always so much more to learn anywhere I look lol. Where did you get the filter specs from? Unfortunately, neither website posted for reusable filters has that information concisely listed (haven't taken the time to 'filter' through their sites, but it looks like at least some of those specs are available).

 

[FinalImpact]

In short; look up the manufactures specs and from there, verify replacement parts meet those specs.

Looking at it, it looks cool, but I want to know Does it:
1) Have an anti drain back valve
2) Flow enough volume
3) Filter as well as paper filter for $7.00 that by the book could be changed every other oil change.

4) If you don't have the time or means to clean it, its moot point.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

. Where did you get the filter specs from? Unfortunately, neither website posted for reusable filters has that information concisely listed (haven't taken the time to 'filter' through their sites, but it looks like at least some of those specs are available).

Giess you didn't click on my link, from that K&P page;

Unique Design, Top Quality Materials and Construction

The K&P Engineering filter element is made from medical grade, type 304 stainless steel micronic filter cloth to provide unmatched protection against oil contamination and resultant engine damage. A one inch square of this material flows an incredible 1.9 gallons of oil per minute at only 1 PSI pump pressure. The adhesive used in the filter assembly process is good to 600 degrees Fahrenheit, far above normal engine operating temperatures. A super strength nickel-plated neodymium rare earth magnet is installed in the top of the element for magnetic pre-filtering of the oil. The sophisticated bypass is engineered for proper differential pressures and consistent operation, delivering a greater percentage of filtered oil while being very easy to clean. The twist lock design assures positive filter element placement and allows for easy disassembly, inspection and cleaning. The quad-ring gasket doubles the seal between the filter and the engine. Finally, the filter housing is carved out of a solid chunk of 6061T6 billet aluminum, which not only looks trick but aids in dissipating heat.

 

[Dry Martini]

Giess you didn't click on my link, from that K&P page;



Unique Design, Top Quality Materials and Construction



The K&P Engineering filter element is made from medical grade, type 304 stainless steel micronic filter cloth to provide unmatched protection against oil contamination and resultant engine damage. A one inch square of this material flows an incredible 1.9 gallons of oil per minute at only 1 PSI pump pressure. The adhesive used in the filter assembly process is good to 600 degrees Fahrenheit, far above normal engine operating temperatures. A super strength nickel-plated neodymium rare earth magnet is installed in the top of the element for magnetic pre-filtering of the oil. The sophisticated bypass is engineered for proper differential pressures and consistent operation, delivering a greater percentage of filtered oil while being very easy to clean. The twist lock design assures positive filter element placement and allows for easy disassembly, inspection and cleaning. The quad-ring gasket doubles the seal between the filter and the engine. Finally, the filter housing is carved out of a solid chunk of 6061T6 billet aluminum, which not only looks trick but aids in dissipating heat.

I don't see what this does that a disposable filter does not do.

As for increased flow, I am sure the Yamaha engineers designed the engine with paper filters in mind.

As for the added benefit of an oil cooler, the bike already comes with an oil cooler.


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[TownsendsFJR1300]

I don't see what this does that a disposable filter does not do.
As for increased flow, I am sure the Yamaha engineers designed the engine with paper filters in mind.
As for the added benefit of an oil cooler, the bike already comes with an oil cooler.

Taz3 asked for opinions, experiances, I gave it as REQUESTED. (As with any other thread)

As noted there is additional flow, additional cooling and one thing paper does NOT do is allow EASY access to the inside of the filter to check for particles, debris, etc. The K&P literally clicks open once of the engine for easy inspection.

Yamaha also designed the bike with regular roller bearings in the steering stem. Tappered bearings are a known improvement, but cost wise, does NOT come into play for manufacturing. I could go on.

Yes its expensive. Mine has already paid for itself with the added bonus of additional performance.
Don't like it, don't buy it..

 

[Dry Martini]

Taz3 asked for opinions, experiances, I gave it as REQUESTED. (As with any other thread)

As noted there is additional flow, additional cooling and one thing paper does NOT do is allow EASY access to the inside of the filter to check for particles, debris, etc. The K&P literally clicks open once of the engine for easy inspection.

Yamaha also designed the bike with regular roller bearings in the steering stem. Tappered bearings are a known improvement, but cost wise, does NOT come into play for manufacturing. I could go on.

t..

The OEM roller bearings are still doing fine in my FZ6.

I do not have any need to check the inside of my filter.


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[TownsendsFJR1300]

The OEM roller bearings are still doing fine in my FZ6.

I do not have any need to check the inside of my filter.

So are mine bearings. Don't check your filter, its your bike, its not my business anyway.

For others asking specific questions, how do you suggest other members respond?

 

[ozgurakman]

The OEM roller bearings are still doing fine in my FZ6.

I do not have any need to check the inside of my filter.

Okay than.

[MENTION=6338]TownsendsFJR1300[/MENTION] thank you for additional info, this will help to who wants to buy re-usable oil filter.

 

[Dry Martini]

So are mine bearings. Don't check your filter, its your bike, its not my business anyway.

For others asking specific questions, how do you suggest other members respond?

He asked for opinions or reviews. I was giving my opinion.

To quote Shakespeare, I think it is, "much ado about nothing."


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[ChanceCoats123]

I've been using the K&P ,SS, re-usable filter for years on both my old FJR and FZ since 12-2010.

It also works as an oil cooler and the flow far exceeds paper filters. Its not cheap but its already paid for itself for me. Easily taken apart for inspection, it also has a magnet in it for additional protection.

Technical Information | K and P Engineering

I've never seen anything like this before. It looks pretty cool, but what it your typical cleaning method? Obviously you wouldn't want to use water... Does the company have a "proprietary" detergent for the filter? It's a shame they made it look so cool, but didn't think about knurling the outside for better grip. :spank:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've never seen anything like this before. It looks pretty cool, but what it your typical cleaning method? Obviously you wouldn't want to use water... Does the company have a "proprietary" detergent for the filter? It's a shame they made it look so cool, but didn't think about knurling the outside for better grip. :spank:

Just wash it like the block. If chain grease gets on it, I may give it a shot with brake cleaner. Its NEVER been polished out in almost 5 years. The very end of the filter assembly does have "notches" like a standard filter.

The "notches" don't stand out much as they don't need to. As the filter assembly is way stiffer than a stamped piece of steel, the included socket fits nicely and unless your really, really far off, it won't slip...

If you look really, really close at the pic I posted, you can see the "notches"(edge) used for tightening/loosening with the oil filter socket.

Its torqued to 12' lbs.


ADDED INFO RE CLEANING/INSPECTING THE INTERNALS, (I omitted it earlier)

To clean the inside, which the filtering element, is quite visable, brake cleaner carb cleaner, etc works fine. I use brake cleaner, a spritz from the air compressor(which usually isn't needed);

Here's a cleaning video from the company (far left, lower side of page);

Cleaning & Assembly | K and P Engineering

A You Tube video by K&P, quite CLEAR and DETAILED;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvsFN3PMRGE&feature=youtu.be

 

[FinalImpact]

I've never seen anything like this before. It looks pretty cool, but what it your typical cleaning method? Obviously you wouldn't want to use water... Does the company have a "proprietary" detergent for the filter?

You beat me to it. ^^
What is your process to clean the filter ELEMENT! I could care less about the road grime on the outside.

JM2C: Lets say filter works by flowing content from A to B.
Debris is trapped between A and B.
If you pump solvent from B to A, some of the debris comes out.
If you pump solvent from A to B before installation, hopefully all that was loosened in the cleaning process doesn't just go right into the oils circulation.

My point is this: 1) Just because you don't see the debris (its inside), doesn't mean its not there. 2) whatever solvents, cleaners, products are used to clean the filter, unless you have hours of drying time its appears they **may be** placed into the oils circulation....

I think the only way I'd switch to this is if A) I had a spare element to alternate between. B) I had a flushing method with a pump verses just throwing it in a solution and moving it from one location to another.

I LIKE THE CONCEPT, but I'm not convinced us folks at home have a surefire process to clean it and not simply place the chunks back into circulation.

Last little bit - I hope this at least makes people think about how to properly clean the filters element (not the outside). Bling vs engine wear.....

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You beat me to it. ^^
What is your process to clean the filter ELEMENT! I could care less about the road grime on the outside.

JM2C: Lets say filter works by flowing content from A to B.
Debris is trapped between A and B.
If you pump solvent from B to A, some of the debris comes out.
If you pump solvent from A to B before installation, hopefully all that was loosened in the cleaning process doesn't just go right into the oils circulation.

My point is this: 1) Just because you don't see the debris (its inside), doesn't mean its not there. 2) whatever solvents, cleaners, products are used to clean the filter, unless you have hours of drying time its appears they **may be** placed into the oils circulation....

I think the only way I'd switch to this is if A) I had a spare element to alternate between. B) I had a flushing method with a pump verses just throwing it in a solution and moving it from one location to another.

I LIKE THE CONCEPT, but I'm not convinced us folks at home have a surefire process to clean it and not simply place the chunks back into circulation.

Last little bit - I hope this at least makes people think about how to properly clean the filters element (not the outside). Bling vs engine wear.....

Here ya go, a direct link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvsFN3PMRGE&feature=youtu.be

It is available on the main page as well...

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Just wash it like the block. If chain grease gets on it, I may give it a shot with brake cleaner. Its NEVER been polished out in almost 5 years. The very end of the filter assembly does have "notches" like a standard filter.

The "notches" don't stand out much as they don't need to. As the filter assembly is way stiffer than a stamped piece of steel, the included socket fits nicely and unless your really, really far off, it won't slip...

If you look really, really close at the pic I posted, you can see the "notches"(edge) used for tightening/loosening with the oil filter socket.

Its torqued to 12' lbs.


ADDED INFO RE CLEANING/INSPECTING THE INTERNALS, (I omitted it earlier)

To clean the inside, which the filtering element, is quite visable, brake cleaner carb cleaner, etc works fine. I use brake cleaner, a spritz from the air compressor(which usually isn't needed);

Here's a cleaning video from the company (far left, lower side of page);

Cleaning & Assembly | K and P Engineering

A You Tube video by K&P, quite CLEAR and DETAILED;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvsFN3PMRGE&feature=youtu.be

That cleaning doesn't look too bad. My only issue(s) would be whether or not it's okay to mix the oil with a (pretty) harsh solvent like brake cleaner. You mention using compressed air to blow everything out, but I'm sure you don't get everything (unless you let it sit out in the sun or something similar to dry it).

What kind of down time do you typically see to clean the filter element? I would imagine it's a fair amount more time than just pulling the old filter, putting some oil on the new filter's o-ring and screwing the new filter on. That may be food for thought for people who don't have a whole lot of time to work on their bike.

Other than that, I think it's a pretty damn good idea. You mentioned that yours has already paid for itself... How much did that run you (and which model is it, for further investigation)?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That cleaning doesn't look too bad. My only issue(s) would be whether or not it's okay to mix the oil with a (pretty) harsh solvent like brake cleaner. You mention using compressed air to blow everything out, but I'm sure you don't get everything (unless you let it sit out in the sun or something similar to dry it).

What kind of down time do you typically see to clean the filter element? I would imagine it's a fair amount more time than just pulling the old filter, putting some oil on the new filter's o-ring and screwing the new filter on. That may be food for thought for people who don't have a whole lot of time to work on their bike.

Other than that, I think it's a pretty damn good idea. You mentioned that yours has already paid for itself... How much did that run you (and which model is it, for further investigation)?

First off, I apoloigize, I thought you asked how to clean the outside, NOT the inside(thus the update).

Brake cleaner is about the friendliest thing you can use, especially on this unit. Unlike carb cleaner (which is MUCH HARSHER), brake cleaner works fine (carb cleaner would work btter in a varnished up tiny jet/ orifice). You could use brake cleaner INSIDE your forks legs (W/O dissassembly if need be WITHOUT hurting anything. Just give it plenty of time to evaporate.

As for my personal procedure, I pop off the filter first, take it apart and let it drain. I'll then get the drain plug off and draining. Back to the filter we're I'll do the brake cleaner thing which does NOT take long. I've never used water on the internals. You don't have to use the air compressor, it just speeds things up. If I didn't have the compressor, I might wait another 5 minutes, brake cleaner evaporates, with NO film, very, very quickly. Carb cleaner will leave a film. I do remove the "quad" filter as I don't want that exposed to any chemicals. It came with two, I'm still on the first after about 5 years.

The bikes about done draining by now, so I put the filter back on. Drain plug next and fill her up.

Its really not any longer to clean as your watching old oil drip from your engine anyway.

As for the price, it'll show on the web site. I can't say the price specifically (maybe $120?) as I bought three total, one for my old FJR, the FZ6 (same unit actually) and a cartridge type for my KLR 250 back in 12-2010(much cheaper).

You can feel the outside edge of the filter slightly cooler than closer to the block (never took the lazer temp gun to it, next time for S&G's) but it does indeed draw some heat (like the bikes frame).

 

[FinalImpact]

At his point I have to laugh as we now have 2 aerosol containers in the dumpster vs 1 dirty oil filter....
Cost Savings -2 cans X $7 = -$14 opcorn: opcorn:

Not to mention, typical solvents including brake cleaner do not dilute modern synthetic oil (Amsoil etc). So now I need MAF cleaner or Acetone and dump this in Hazmat...

Still relevant....

My point is this: 1) Just because you don't see the debris (its inside), doesn't mean its not there. 2) whatever solvents, cleaners, products are used to clean the filter, unless you have hours of drying time it appears they **may be** placed into the oils circulation....

I think the only way I'd switch to this is if A) I had a spare element to alternate between. B) I had a flushing method with a pump verses just throwing it in a solution and moving it from one location to another.

I LIKE THE CONCEPT, but I'm not convinced us folks at home have a surefire process to clean it and not simply place the chunks back into circulation.