Run switch faulty

Nelly

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I found this thread but it hasn't got the info I'm after.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/20806-replace-killswitch-starter-switch.html

On to my problem, I was running the bike pretty hard over the last few days as the dryer weather has come. I thought I was getting some clutch slip at high rpm. Then this evening I switched the engine on to run and the starter didn't turn over. I jiggled the switch a little and pressed it into the "On" position a bit harder and the engine fired into life.
On the run home I was getting intermittent cutting out of the engine which I previously thought was clutch slip as it was only going on for a nano second.
I know it is a run switch issue as I tried pressing it and moving it laterally whilst riding and I could replicate the cut out symptoms.

My rather protracted question is this, can I service the run switch if so how? How do I bypass the switch if servicing it fails.
This is my only form of transport other than walking and I have two days off in which to try and sort it.

Thanks in advance for your kind help,

Neil:thumbup:
 

trepetti

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Sorry to hear Nelly. I don't know about servicing the run switch, but I had the starter switch on my 05 break at the end of last season, and I can tell you that replacing the whole assembly is not too difficult if you have the service manual and some basic tools.

I hope it doesn't come to that. I'll be lurking to see if there is any hope at repairing.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
I found this thread but it hasn't got the info I'm after.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/20806-replace-killswitch-starter-switch.html

On to my problem, I was running the bike pretty hard over the last few days as the dryer weather has come. I thought I was getting some clutch slip at high rpm. Then this evening I switched the engine on to run and the starter didn't turn over. I jiggled the switch a little and pressed it into the "On" position a bit harder and the engine fired into life.
On the run home I was getting intermittent cutting out of the engine which I previously thought was clutch slip as it was only going on for a nano second.
I know it is a run switch issue as I tried pressing it and moving it laterally whilst riding and I could replicate the cut out symptoms.

My rather protracted question is this, can I service the run switch if so how? How do I bypass the switch if servicing it fails.
This is my only form of transport other than walking and I have two days off in which to try and sort it.

Thanks in advance for your kind help,

Neil:thumbup:
I believe the rocker has small plastic tabs on each side, designed NOT to be repaired.

You may be able to gently pop it out after pulling the switch assembly apart off the rt handlebar(3 screws). *Make sure the throttle cables (pull and push) are as loose as possible, makes it a little easier to take the switch off and put back on . The contacts are probably crappy. If the contact isn't tight enough, obviously it'll be a bad connection and the igntion switch will be iffy at best.

You should be able to trace the two wires coming out of the switch, tie them together and BY-pass the switch altogether Neil.. (IMO, I'd just soldier and heat shrink for a permanent by pass). The only other wires in the switch are for the starter. In the harness, the front brake light wires run thru there so make sure you have the correct wires that go to the kill switch before cutting anything...

The emergency kill switch won't work but it's one less thing to fail.

I know Yamaha only sells the entire switch assembly if you want it repaired as stock, part #14(about $68 in the US):
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/2005/FZ6+-+FZ6ST/HANDLE+SWITCH+LEVER/parts.html

Easy, smeshy fix..

Please post how it goes...
 
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agf

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While we are talking Kill switches:
generally when I park my park of an evening or at work in the morning I put down the sided stand and that cuts the motor, as it should, and then turn off the ignition. Now the mechanical component of the switch should wear out when its pretty old, but will cutting the electrical connection cause any arcing or similar when the switch activates. Is this a habit I should break and just use the ignition key. I rarely use the kill switch on the throttle casing---- just a vague sort of query, that I'm sure Cliff or Scott will have a cluey idea about it, ......thanks guys

sorry about the hijack Neil,
bfwiw I too would just solder the kill switch wires together and do without it, rather than source replacement bits
 
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Motogiro

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I think I remember a member trying to service that switch and they were able to open it but lost a little ball bearing and spring that works in conjunction with the rocker assembly. If you take it a part do it where you can retrieve or contain flying parts. LOL!

If you get to the contacts, use a pencil eraser to clean the contacts. Don't use a file or sand paper.

The 2 wires that go into the switch can be tied together to complete the circuit in the event of switch failure. You could easily make your own replaceable switch to do the same job as a kill switch. :)

The 2 wire color codes are Red with a black tracer and Red with a white tracer. If you need to open the harness, tie these two wires together.
 
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TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
While we are talking Kill switches:
generally when I park my park of an evening or at work in the morning I put down the sided stand and that cuts the motor, as it should, and then turn off the ignition. Now the mechanical component of the switch should wear out when its pretty old, but will cutting the electrical connection cause any arcing or similar when the switch activates. Is this a habit I should break and just use the ignition key. I rarely use the kill switch on the throttle casing---- just a vague sort of query, that I'm sure Cliff or Scott will have a cluey idea about it, ......thanks guys

sorry about the hijack Neil,
bfwiw I too would just solder the kill switch wires together and do without it, rather than source replacement bits
The handlebar kill switch failure is a known weak point, the kick stand switch, not really (pretty rare actually), I don't think you'll have any issues with it..

I'm just in the habit of turning off at the ignition switch, this way, I don't leave the headlight on (and ignition) accidentally.
 
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TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
Site Supporter
I think I remember a member trying to service that switch and they were able to open it but lost a little ball bearing and spring that works in conjunction with the rocker assembly. If you take it a part do it where you can retrieve or contain flying parts. LOL!

If you get to the contacts, use a pencil eraser to clean the contacts. Don't use a file or sand paper.

The 2 wires that go into the switch can be tied together to complete the circuit in the event of switch failure. You could easily make you own replaceable switch to do the same job as a kill switch. :)

The 2 wire color codes are Red with a black tracer and Red with a white tracer. If you need to open the harness, tie these two wires together.
Yea, what he said!:thumbup:
 

Nelly

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Thanks guys, I will go out shortly when it stops snowing (Aw come on it's bloody March, Lambs are being born in the field opposite me). I have tried soldering outside in the cold before and the bloody windchill took all the heat out of the wire I was trying to heat up. I'll see what occurs.


Neil:thumbup:
 

chemicalsmile

Junior Member
While we are talking Kill switches:
generally when I park my park of an evening or at work in the morning I put down the sided stand and that cuts the motor, as it should, and then turn off the ignition. Now the mechanical component of the switch should wear out when its pretty old, but will cutting the electrical connection cause any arcing or similar when the switch activates. Is this a habit I should break and just use the ignition key. I rarely use the kill switch on the throttle casing---- just a vague sort of query, that I'm sure Cliff or Scott will have a cluey idea about it, ......thanks guys
This is how I always kill mine. Seems like a lot of people have issues with bar switches so I try not to touch mine at all.
 

Nelly

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This is how I always kill mine. Seems like a lot of people have issues with bar switches so I try not to touch mine at all.
I really like the bar kill switch and use it regularly. Should it fail more than any other bar mounted switch? I don't think so. We have starter switches, Pass switches (European models) indicators and hi - low beam switches. I think it is a quality issue with the actual switch itself.

I took it apart this afternoon and had a look at it. Sadly I don't think that there is an easy way to dissemble the actual switch itself. Pictures later.

Neil
 

DownrangeFuture

Electronic Repair Genius
I think the failure rate has to do with how the engine kill switch kills the motor. The ignition, clutch switch, neutral switch, and side stand switch are just logic switches. They run off 5-12vdc and almost no current, and basically just tell the ECU not to send spark triggers to the coils. But the coils are still connected to the battery, so theoretically the engine could still run.

So, IIRC, the kill engine switch physically disconnects the coils from the battery/starter from the battery/fuel pump from the battery. So it has to handle far more current. That current increases rust rate, and also could cause excessive sparking which would also wear out the contacts faster.

So it was probably a design issue. The engineers probably felt it was an "emergency" switch and the kickstand/ignition would be used most often to kill the engine.
 

Nelly

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It is most definitely a design issue. In the last decade I have always used the run switch to stop the engine. I haven't haven't had any issues with other machines.

Neil

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Motogiro

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I agree with what Downrange is saying. The kill switch really isn't designed as an operational switch. It is an emergency kill switch. I've never been in the habit of using it to kill the motor on any of my bikes.
 

Nelly

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There doesn't seem to be an easy way to get to the contacts without destruction of the switch. Do I need to remove the switch completely or can I just bridge the contacts with a piece of soldered wire?




Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
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pookamatic

Junior Member
First things, first. It's a CUTOFF switch... not the "K" word. ;)

Second, I was instructed ad nauseum to include the cutoff switch in the dismount in the MSF BRC. Thumb-Key-Valve. Repeat it over and over and over.

Now sure... our bikes don't have fuel shutoff valves and no, the cutoff switch is not necessary. I think they drilled this stuff over and over again to ensure everyone was on the same page.

But I digress. If you don't really use it, solder them together and call it a day.
 

DownrangeFuture

Electronic Repair Genius
You forgot the "emergency" in front of cutoff. It's an "Emergency Cutoff Switch" technically. But run/kill switch works fine too.

And I hated that they did that. It was honestly the only thing that I disliked about the MSF course. Emergency switches, being that they're not used in normal operation, aren't designed to be used often. So it's either designed to be durable but not actually be a "safety switch", or it's designed to be a safety switch (as on the FZ6) but isn't very durable just because of the current loads it has to handle to do so. And in every wreck I've had, I was nowhere near the bike to actually use the emergency cutoff switch. So the MSF "thumb-key-switch" doesn't serve an actual purpose. Not to mention every carburated bike I've owned didn't have an "OFF" position. It was either "RUN" or "RES", so I wonder how common manual fuel cutoff valves are these days. (Of course, fuel pumps have automatic ones)

Cars started using automatic cutoff switches and removed the manual emergency switch years ago for the same reason. IIRC they started phasing out in the 50's on cars. Why they've stuck around on bikes is beyond me.

Anyway, not trying to be whiny, just wanted to whine for a minute. Carry on.


And yes, Nelly, those are the points you'd solder together to bypass the switch. Since the tip over sensor is inline with this switch (I think) then there shouldn't be any need to keep the switch. Although if the bike were on fire or going crazy on its side, I don't see that flipping the switch would be any easier than turning a key. I'm not going near the bike in either situation regardless.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

2007 FZ6
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IMO, leave the switch in place so you don't have a gapping hole in the outer assembly.

Just soldier the two wires together (as posted above). Heat shrink or electrical tape and your good.

Or bridge them as you also mentioned, just make sure its a good bridge or it will die on you when least expected..
 

Nelly

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You forgot the "emergency" in front of cutoff. It's an "Emergency Cutoff Switch" technically. But run/kill switch works fine too.

And I hated that they did that. It was honestly the only thing that I disliked about the MSF course. Emergency switches, being that they're not used in normal operation, aren't designed to be used often. So it's either designed to be durable but not actually be a "safety switch", or it's designed to be a safety switch (as on the FZ6) but isn't very durable just because of the current loads it has to handle to do so. And in every wreck I've had, I was nowhere near the bike to actually use the emergency cutoff switch. So the MSF "thumb-key-switch" doesn't serve an actual purpose. Not to mention every carburated bike I've owned didn't have an "OFF" position. It was either "RUN" or "RES", so I wonder how common manual fuel cutoff valves are these days. (Of course, fuel pumps have automatic ones)

Cars started using automatic cutoff switches and removed the manual emergency switch years ago for the same reason. IIRC they started phasing out in the 50's on cars. Why they've stuck around on bikes is beyond me.

Anyway, not trying to be whiny, just wanted to whine for a minute. Carry on.


And yes, Nelly, those are the points you'd solder together to bypass the switch. Since the tip over sensor is inline with this switch (I think) then there shouldn't be any need to keep the switch. Although if the bike were on fire or going crazy on its side, I don't see that flipping the switch would be any easier than turning a key. I'm not going near the bike in either situation regardless.
I have found that with the crash bobbins installed the tip over switch has failed to kill the engine twice. I wrote a post about it a couple of years ago.
I like using the switch and am slightly miffed that I will now have a defunct switch on the bar.
Sadly to much wind and to cold to effectively solder the bugger today. It's started snowing again tonight so I might just give it a good spray of WD40 and see how I go as I need to get to work on Thursday.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

Neil
 

Nelly

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First things, first. It's a CUTOFF switch... not the "K" word. ;)

Second, I was instructed ad nauseum to include the cutoff switch in the dismount in the MSF BRC. Thumb-Key-Valve. Repeat it over and over and over.

Now sure... our bikes don't have fuel shutoff valves and no, the cutoff switch is not necessary. I think they drilled this stuff over and over again to ensure everyone was on the same page.

But I digress. If you don't really use it, solder them together and call it a day.
In the UK it is often called the "Run" switch, I can't find any reference to it's actual name in the Haynes manual?

Neil
 

Nelly

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IMO, leave the switch in place so you don't have a gapping hole in the outer assembly.

Just soldier the two wires together (as posted above). Heat shrink or electrical tape and your good.

Or bridge them as you also mentioned, just make sure its a good bridge or it will die on you when least expected..
I wasn't going to leave a hole lol, I was thinking that I might have to remove the actual switch and possibly make a blank for the hole.

Neil
 
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