Speedometer shows 299 km/h :o

[mazellan]

I have a Yamaha FZ6 2008

My speedometer shows way too high values ~2-3 times more than actual speed. It is the "same" with the tachometer. It shows 2-3 times actual revs.

This occurred after the winter-rest. I had forgotten to charge the battery during the winter, but it was not totally empty. The lights on the screen came on. After charging the battery it started without problem. However, when I started to drive I noticed that the speedometer was way off. At second gear and almost no throttle it showed ~60km/h. On the highway it went to 299km/h which I estimate was like 100 km/h in actual speed. There is no error code on the screen.

I have detached the battery pole and had it like that for two days. No difference after attaching it again. Anyone heard of this? Any tips?

Edit: just to clearify, the model year in the registration paper says 2008. But it seems like the model with my meters are 2004-2007(?)

 

[FinalImpact]

This. This is how the red and blue myth got started about which bike is faster. But we all know it is the Raven black bikes!!!! Blah


I'm guessing your bike has a speedo healer that lost its settings. You might look under the seat, find it, and find the directions to set it for the FZ6.
Start there!

 

[Motogiro]

First you should confirm the voltage at the battery is the nominal 12 vdc. with the bike running it should be close to 14 vdc above idle. This is to confirm that you're not dealing with a supply voltage that is not acceptable or that the regulator/rectifier is wide open not regulating and allowing dirty output from the stator.

The output from the ECU is common to a few of the sensors but I don't think that is a problem because you would probably get an error code and check engine light.
Looking at the schematic I found that the S2 FZ6 ECU plug has the sensor wire returns for the speedo and rpm right next to each other. You might disconnect the negative lead on the battery then disconnect the ECU plug and inspect for corrosion or moisture on the ECU pins and plug.

Hope this helps and lets us know what you find.

 

[mazellan]

haha, maybe I should keep it this way and be "the fastest guy in the neighborhood"

I haven't mounted a speedo healer, maybe the previous owner did. I will go and look for one ...

 

[mazellan]

FinalImpact, I could not see a speedo healer under the seat or tank. The previous owner had not modified any thing else what I can see so I doubt that he had mounted such thing(?)

MotoGiro, the battery seems fine and the regulator too. It was 12.05 V in off position, 11.8 V in the on pos and 14.05 V with the motor running. I took appart the connector to the ECU and loosen the ECU. No oxidation what I could see. I cleaned it anyway with some anti-oxidation gently on the pins with a cotton bud.

Unfortunatley no change. The tachometer reads 5200 rpm at ideling and quickly goes to max. :/

 

[Motogiro]

Sounds like it might be in the instrument cluster itself. Wouldn't be the first time we've seen a failure on one. [MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] did some work on one and I believe he was successful with it.
Maybe you find one to swap as a test?

 

[mazellan]

aww, the instrument cluster will set me back ~$700 (from the local dealer). I guess one can find one on ebay for less... Don't know anyone that have a similar bike, so I guess have to order one and hope for the best :/ Or maybe [MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] have some magic tips

I teared down the front and checked the connection to the instrument. Looked ok. Also took appart all connections under the tank. Some had a little bit of oxidation, but I guess that they were "less iportant" since they didn't have the rubber seal. The others were ok.

Thanx for the help though!

 

[FinalImpact]

aww, the instrument cluster will set me back ~$700 (from the local dealer). I guess one can find one on ebay for less... Don't know anyone that have a similar bike, so I guess have to order one and hope for the best :/ Or maybe [MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] have some magic tips

I teared down the front and checked the connection to the instrument. Looked ok. Also took appart all connections under the tank. Some had a little bit of oxidation, but I guess that they were "less iportant" since they didn't have the rubber seal. The others were ok.

Thanx for the help though!

Fail! I missed the tachometer statement in first post but see it now. That is interesting.

Perhaps the next step is to pull the gauge, remove the screws and inspect the PCBA for corrosion? But.....

You can not easily remove the LCD display or tach needle but you can look under them for corrosion and growth.

BUT..... continued!
Seeing's how the ECU is calculating the speed based upon the rpm and multiplying/dividing by the applied gear, well if at idle it thinks the RPM is what 4.7x what it should be, that stands to reason that the speed will be off the charts too.

Cliff you following me? Now how could the injection and ignition be correct if the ECU really thought the RPM was off? Not likely?
That said I don't think its the gauge as the speed data comes from ecu on a shared data line with the tach data, CEL, coolant temp, air temp. I would begin by lifting tank and inspecting by unplugging all critical water tight plugs headed to the ECM. Specifically CPS sensor and speed sensor inputs.

I am at a loss. Thinking...

 

[FinalImpact]

Just thinking outloud.
Set your meter to AC volts and measure the voltage out of the regulator rectifier. It should be 500mvAC or less.

PS with some long probes you can reach the RR red and black wires right through the triangle in the frame. No need to lift seat or tank.

 

[Motogiro]

Just thinking outloud.
Set your meter to AC volts and measure the voltage out of the regulator rectifier. It should be 500mvAC or less.

PS with some long probes you can reach the RR red and black wires right through the triangle in the frame. No need to lift seat or tank.

Yes! I was also thinking ripple

 

[Motogiro]

Cliff you following me? Now how could the injection and ignition be correct if the ECU really thought the RPM was off? Not likely?
That said I don't think its the gauge as the speed data comes from ecu on a shared data line with the tach data, CEL, coolant temp, air temp. I would begin by lifting tank and inspecting by unplugging all critical water tight plugs headed to the ECM. Specifically CPS sensor and speed sensor inputs.

I am at a loss. Thinking...

Yes I looked at the color code to pinout on the ECU plug and saw they (speedo and rpm sensor returns) were physically next to each other and thought of the possibility of cross talk at the ECU pins but it could be at another connector.

 

[mazellan]

Just thinking outloud.
Set your meter to AC volts and measure the voltage out of the regulator rectifier. It should be 500mvAC or less.

PS with some long probes you can reach the RR red and black wires right through the triangle in the frame. No need to lift seat or tank.

Here are two videos of the measurement of the regulator. It also shows the response of the rpm meter, 5-5200 rpm at idle (cold). The second video shows the voltage change with rpm.

A question: [MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION], you say that the ECU calculates the speed from the rpm and the gear. Does it know which gear? There is no gear indicator on the instrument (except for neutral). Is it just that they didn't bother to put it on the dash?

[video=youtube_share;NDNT8uwkt4g]https://youtu.be/NDNT8uwkt4g[/video] [video=youtube_share;MrYD50rdXi4]https://youtu.be/MrYD50rdXi4[/video]

 

[Motogiro]

Here are two videos of the measurement of the regulator. It also shows the response of the rpm meter, 5-5200 rpm at idle (cold). The second video shows the voltage change with rpm.

A question: [MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION], you say that the ECU calculates the speed from the rpm and the gear. Does it know which gear? There is no gear indicator on the instrument (except for neutral). Is it just that they didn't bother to put it on the dash?

[video=youtube_share;NDNT8uwkt4g]https://youtu.be/NDNT8uwkt4g[/video] [video=youtube_share;MrYD50rdXi4]https://youtu.be/MrYD50rdXi4[/video]

I just realized your bike is an S1 and not an S2. In your prifile, your bike is listed as an 08 I guess because of your country's motor vehicle system. Your bike is probably marketed as an 04 to 06 S1 model and not an 08. This can make a difference when trouble shooting because wire color codes change in some assemblies between S1 and S2 models.
I notice in the video, the rpm goes all the way to the top limit but the ECU does not limit the engine rev which is usually evident by cutting off. This makes me think the ECU is not seeing a sensor problem.
This might be due to bad data output to the cluster from ECU or a problem in the cluster. The cluster has a CPU which processes the data line info into the readout.
I know this might not sound very technical but have you tried lightly tap the cluster to see if it's behavior changes?

That's what my dad would do to my head when he didn't understand my behavior...

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[mazellan]

I just realized your bike is an S1 and not an S2. In your prifile, your bike is listed as an 08 I guess because of your country's motor vehicle system.

Yea, sorry about that, I should have checked the model number instead of the registration paper.

ECU does not limit the engine rev

Is there a rpm limiter? If so, as you say, the ECU is not getting the false values. My guess is that the revs on the meter can be +20000. So it points to the meter cluster. But on the other hand... if the speed and rpm is sent in separate cables to the meter cluster and both the rev and speed is off. What is the probability of that?

I also got to think about MPH vs km/h conversion... but the conversion factor is too small, 1.6, my error is about 3 times... What about a speedohealer? Can one calibrate it with such a large factor? (if it is constant, which I think it is). It will show wrong rpm but correct speed (which I need for the yearly vehicle control).

have you tried lightly tap the cluster to see if it's behavior changes?

I tried to tap it, no change

 

[FinalImpact]

I stated that incorrectly. CPS provides RPM. A fixed gear on the transmission output shaft (3rd gear IIRC, but maybe 5th), provide speed. Based upon the gear in use and the RPM, the ECU knows the difference in revolution thus the gear selected. It uses this information for fuel and ignition maps but to your point, it does not offer an output even though it knows.

A volt of AC at RPM at the RR doesn't seem right but I don't think it is the source of your issues.
A quick test would be to run the engine with the RR disconnected. Does it change anything?

Going back to the data line. The S2 allows one to switch between and see air temp and engine water temp. This data and speed and RPM are sent through a single wire to the gauge. I think the addressing is I2C whereby the gauge decodes the data and sends it to the proper output.

All of that said, either the gauge or the ECU is messed up. Yet there is no no CEL for a checksum error fault for bad bad data. Even though there is no active CEL, have you looked through the memory for faults?
Good job posting and those videos. They tell the story.

 

[FinalImpact]

Yea, sorry about that, I should have checked the model number instead of the registration paper.


Is there a rpm limiter? If so, as you say, the ECU is not getting the false values. My guess is that the revs on the meter can be +20000. So it points to the meter cluster. But on the other hand... if the speed and rpm is sent in separate cables to the meter cluster and both the rev and speed is off. What is the probability of that?

I also got to think about MPH vs km/h conversion... but the conversion factor is too small, 1.6, my error is about 3 times... What about a speedohealer? Can one calibrate it with such a large factor? (if it is constant, which I think it is). It will show wrong rpm but correct speed (which I need for the yearly vehicle control).


I tried to tap it, no change

What ever became of this?
Did you find a new problem or a solution?

 

[mazellan]

I still ride 300 km/h most of the time ... I kind of lost the motivation when it turned out that it probably is the cluster. That will cost me ~$600 to “test” if I buy a new one. There are used ones on eBay, maybe I give it a shot (but who knows if that one actually works). A friend of mine said he had bought a new China-cluster for almost nothing and it was just to plug in and everything worked. That could be an option if I can find one that fits.

 

[FinalImpact]

Open it and look inside. Growth of foriegn material could be an issue?

 

[mazellan]

I’ll try that.

Any tips/do/don’t when opening the speedo meter?


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

 

[FinalImpact]

Like any PCBA the components are static sensitive. Do not stand on carpet and open it.

Best practice is to touch the surface you're working on and touch a grounded outlet or for example a bare metal case of a computer, electric stove, microwave, etc and then open it.

Discharge yourself again when returning.

Take some close up pictures of anything suspicious.