1st gear fz6

[luukfz6]

Hello,
When you guys are riding fast do you use 1st gear at all? I find myself not using 1st gear then mostly 2nd gear and I stay in 2nd gear.
I find shifting from 2nd gear to 1st gear very clunky. do you experience the same feeling?
Kind regards,
Luuk

 

[Gary in NJ]

I use all of the gears all of the time.

 

[luukfz6]

When you see some twisties do you approach the corners in first of second gear?

 

[trepetti]

I use all of the gears all of the time.

I think the MSF teaches that.... ATGATT All the Gear(s) All The Time

 

[trepetti]

Hello,
When you guys are riding fast do you use 1st gear at all? I find myself not using 1st gear then mostly 2nd gear and I stay in 2nd gear.
I find shifting from 2nd gear to 1st gear very clunky. do you experience the same feeling?
Kind regards,
Luuk

Hmmm. Not sure I understand... 1st gear is essential when starting from a stop, and for really low speed operation.

Gear selection is hard to describe, so I will let Yamaha do the talking.... In the owners manual is says....

Shift UP points:
1->2 30km/h
2->3 45
3->4 60
4->5 75
5->6 90

As for downshifting, you can be very smooth if you practice rev-matching. Blipping the throttle before engaging the clutch in the lower gear can, when done well, make gear changes smooth as silk.

 

[Gary in NJ]

When you see some twisties do you approach the corners in first of second gear?

I approach the curve in the appropriate gear. I like to get my downshifting and braking done before I enter the curve, keeping just enough front brake engaged as to not unload the front wheel (aka Trail Braking).

I can’t think of any turns or curves that require a downshift to 1st gear, other than slowing to make a left at an intersection.

I also late apex my turns, allowing a maximum line-of-sight through the turn. If you are new to riding, I highly suggest Lee Parks book “Total Control”. It is considered the Bible for street riding.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

There's a "first gear" turn at Deals Gap, drop and hard, slow turn..

 

[Gary in NJ]

There's a "first gear" turn at Deals Gap, drop and hard, slow turn..

I did think of a road where I may go into 1st. On route 579 in Bloomsbury there is a decreasing radius turn that is about 120 degrees. Wh2nd en coming from the North into town it's on a 12% grade down hill, so it can be taken in 2nd gear. It also helps that it is a left turn in this direction so the turn isn't as tight. However, when taken heading North from town, it's a tight right hand turn up a steep grade. Yes, I do believe that I take this turn in 1st because I have to slow down to about 15 mph. It's a tight blind turn, up hill. I provided a link to it.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

 

[luukfz6]

Sorry if my question is not clear, english not my first language. For example the link below I want to approach this corner in 1st gear so you can accelerate hard out of the corner to the next corner and upshift to 2nd gear. Then brake and downshift to 1st gear and take those two corners in 1st gear again and then accelerate and shift up to 2nd gear again. But downshifting to 1st gear from 2nd gear (around 50km/h) feels very clunky, like a clunk, or feels like I'm grinding the gears (like when you're in the car and you let the clutch up and it's not far enough into gear yet). Downshifting from 3rd gear to 2nd gear is smooth, but from 2nd gear to 1st gear I always have that clatter. Do I need to maybe pre-load the shifter, like when shifting up without a clutch. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal with fz6 that from 1st gear to 2nd does not go smoothly.


46 Rijnbandijk - Google Maps

 

[Gary in NJ]

That's a nice turn, but not one I would take in 1st gear. It looks like a turn that could safely be taken at 65-75 kmh (40-50 mph).

I would say that downshifting from 2nd to 1st gear at 50 kmh (31mph) is unnecessary. It's difficult to obtain a smooth shift at that speed because the engine needs to turn at 6,600 rpm, meaning you'd want to rev-match or blip to an rpm in the 7,000 range.

You're watching too much MotoGP on TV . That curve can be taken smoothly in 3rd/4th or 5th gear. There is no need to get maximum drive out of that turn - it's a narrow public road. It's also a great road (I followed along on Google Maps). Being a smooth and safe rider is ultimately more satisfying than being a statistic. If you feel the need to get maximum drive out of a turn (and drag a knee while doing it) you should be on a closed course track.

 

[trepetti]

Sorry if my question is not clear, english not my first language. For example the link below I want to approach this corner in 1st gear so you can accelerate hard out of the corner to the next corner and upshift to 2nd gear. Then brake and downshift to 1st gear and take those two corners in 1st gear again and then accelerate and shift up to 2nd gear again. But downshifting to 1st gear from 2nd gear (around 50km/h) feels very clunky, like a clunk, or feels like I'm grinding the gears (like when you're in the car and you let the clutch up and it's not far enough into gear yet). Downshifting from 3rd gear to 2nd gear is smooth, but from 2nd gear to 1st gear I always have that clatter. Do I need to maybe pre-load the shifter, like when shifting up without a clutch. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal with fz6 that from 1st gear to 2nd does not go smoothly.


46 Rijnbandijk - Google Maps

It might help if we knew your riding experience. How long have you been riding and is the FZ6 your 1st bike? I am trying to understand if you had a previous bike that shifted more smoothly, or if you are on your first bike and learning the shift points.

 

[luukfz6]

The fz6 is my first bike and I have it for 4 weeks now. Ye its not about going fast in that essence is more about engaging riding. Because the power is pretty high in the in rpms so I wanted to take some corners in 1st gear and then accelerate a bit faster out of corner because there is more power high in the rpms and in 1st gear you reach that point faster than with 2nd gear. Because if you want to feel that acceleration from that rev range in 2nd gear you are going way to fast for that road that is why I want to shift back to 1st gear and experience that acceleration in 1st gear, you also limit you max speed then. Now I am mostly using 2nd gear on that dyke and almost never comming out of 2nd gear with the occasional upshift to 3rd or 4th and then shifting back to 2nd gear before the corner again. Just wanted to know what your guys experience is with shifting back to 1st gear.

"It's also a great road (I followed along on Google Maps). ", Yes there pretty nice roads here

 

[Gary in NJ]

Because the power is pretty high in the in rpms so I wanted to take some corners in 1st gear and then accelerate a bit faster out of corner because there is more power high in the rpms and in 1st gear you reach that point faster than with 2nd gear. Because if you want to feel that acceleration from that rev range in 2nd gear you are going way to fast for that road that is why

You do realize that the throttle isn't binary...there are positions between open and closed You will ride much smoother in higher gears.

 

[luukfz6]

I will try master that first then. Just a bit bummed out I mess up my shifts from 2nd to 1st gear.

 

[Gary in NJ]

Let's dig deep into this.

1st gear has a ratio of 15.9934:1
2nd has a ratio of 10.9429:1

That's a change of 46%

3rd gear has a ratio of 8.7412:1. This is a 25% change from 2nd
4th has a ratio of 7.4924:1 - a 17% change from 3rd
5th has a ratio of 6.6897:1 - a 12% change from 4rd
6th has a ratio of 6.0876:1 - a 10% change from 5rd

The larger the change in ratio, the harder it is to be smooth. Moreover, 1st isn't intended to be a "riding" gear, it's meant to be a "get you going" gear. As you shift through the gears from 1st to 6th it gets easier and easier to be smooth. Conversely, when you begin to move back down to 1st you have to begin to really concentrate on your down shifts. Mentioned earlier by Trepetti, you need to blip the throttle (advance the throttle while the clutch is pulled in) to get a smooth clutch release and gear engagement. Throttle blipping is easy in gears 6 down to 4, and takes a little effort from 4 down through 2. But because 1st has such a tall gear (46% higher than 2nd), it takes an experienced set of hands to make it smooth.

The other issue with down-shifting to 1st at a high rpm - you run the risk of miscalculating and over reving your engine. If you float a valve, your engine will require expensive repairs.

Finally, you are riding on public roads. You need to be conscience & aware that you riding around at high rpm in low gears sounds frightening to others. And it really draws the attention of the police. Keeping a low profile will help you keep your license.

 

[trepetti]

Let's dig deep into this.

1st gear has a ratio of 15.9934:1
2nd has a ratio of 10.9429:1

That's a change of 46%

3rd gear has a ratio of 8.7412:1. This is a 25% change from 2nd
4th has a ratio of 7.4924:1 - a 17% change from 3rd
5th has a ratio of 6.6897:1 - a 12% change from 4rd
6th has a ratio of 6.0876:1 - a 10% change from 5rd

The larger the change in ratio, the harder it is to be smooth. Moreover, 1st isn't intended to be a "riding" gear, it's meant to be a "get you going" gear. As you shift through the gears from 1st to 6th it gets easier and easier to be smooth. Conversely, when you begin to move back down to 1st you have to begin to really concentrate on your down shifts. Mentioned earlier by Trepetti, you need to blip the throttle (advance the throttle while the clutch is pulled in) to get a smooth clutch release and gear engagement. Throttle blipping is easy in gears 6 down to 4, and takes a little effort from 4 down through 2. But because 1st has such a tall gear (46% higher than 2nd), it takes an experienced set of hands to make it smooth.

The other issue with down-shifting to 1st at a high rpm - you run the risk of miscalculating and over reving your engine. If you float a valve, your engine will require expensive repairs.

Finally, you are riding on public roads. You need to be conscience & aware that you riding around at high rpm in low gears sounds frightening to others. And it really draws the attention of the police. Keeping a low profile will help you keep your license.

^^^+1 Another thing to note is that if you do not rev-match well, you run the risk of losing traction in the rear as the tire hops while trying to bring the engine revs up. If you downshift and cause the tire hop, and then you whack the throttle open, you will soon be looking for your 2nd bike...... as soon as all your injuries heal.

To be fast you MUST be smooth. A motorcycle like the FZ6 will punish you for trying to be abrupt.

 

[luukfz6]

Let's dig deep into this.

1st gear has a ratio of 15.9934:1
2nd has a ratio of 10.9429:1

That's a change of 46%

3rd gear has a ratio of 8.7412:1. This is a 25% change from 2nd
4th has a ratio of 7.4924:1 - a 17% change from 3rd
5th has a ratio of 6.6897:1 - a 12% change from 4rd
6th has a ratio of 6.0876:1 - a 10% change from 5rd

The larger the change in ratio, the harder it is to be smooth. Moreover, 1st isn't intended to be a "riding" gear, it's meant to be a "get you going" gear. As you shift through the gears from 1st to 6th it gets easier and easier to be smooth. Conversely, when you begin to move back down to 1st you have to begin to really concentrate on your down shifts. Mentioned earlier by Trepetti, you need to blip the throttle (advance the throttle while the clutch is pulled in) to get a smooth clutch release and gear engagement. Throttle blipping is easy in gears 6 down to 4, and takes a little effort from 4 down through 2. But because 1st has such a tall gear (46% higher than 2nd), it takes an experienced set of hands to make it smooth.

The other issue with down-shifting to 1st at a high rpm - you run the risk of miscalculating and over reving your engine. If you float a valve, your engine will require expensive repairs.

Finally, you are riding on public roads. You need to be conscience & aware that you riding around at high rpm in low gears sounds frightening to others. And it really draws the attention of the police. Keeping a low profile will help you keep your license.

^^^+1 Another thing to note is that if you do not rev-match well, you run the risk of losing traction in the rear as the tire hops while trying to bring the engine revs up. If you downshift and cause the tire hop, and then you whack the throttle open, you will soon be looking for your 2nd bike...... as soon as all your injuries heal.

To be fast you MUST be smooth. A motorcycle like the FZ6 will punish you for trying to be abrupt.

Thx for the in depth reply's! I will stick to 2nd gear then for such roads and will go for the smooth approach and avoid 1st gear all together seems like there are more drawbacks than benefits. Bascially use the first gear for "get you going", I also do the same in my car and use the first gear to get the car moving and then quickly shift to 2nd unless you want to accelerate fast. Mabye there is an occasional situation where I need 1st gear, like an uphill hairpin mabye? however we dont have those in the Netherlands

 

[Gary in NJ]

Like the great Jackie Stewart use to say; “ the smoothest driver is the fastest one” (or something like that).

 

[trepetti]

Like the great Jackie Stewart use to say; “ the smoothest driver is the fastest one” (or something like that).

I thought Jackie said "The fastest driver is the shortest one" I might be wrong

 

[ShoopCE]

I thought Jackie said "The fastest driver is the shortest one" I might be wrong

Yep, you're wrong. And short...