FZ6 vs R6 "feel"...

[Xavias]

So I've been searching around looking for a similar thread but can't find one.

Basically here's my question. Apart from the obvious (sport vs supersport), is there a reason that handling on the R6 feels so much different from the FZ6? Let me explain.

I have a 2008 FZ6, and my friend Brittany has a 2008 R6.

We switched bikes a little bit a couple months ago and I just couldn't understand how... I don't know... stable? the R6 felt. It just felt like if you were going at all, it wanted to be straight up and down. Turning felt much more intuitive and linear, whereas my fz6 turn in feels more like diving into the corner. Granted, my tire is a little old and will be replaced as soon as spring hits, but the front end of my fz6 just doesn't feel as.. planted? as the R6 does.

It's a little hard to explain, really. It's like my FZ feels more nimble, but it's almost too much. The R6 just felt more natural at all speeds.

Anyone else out there know what I'm talking about?

If you do, are there any mods I can make it to handle more like the R6? (clip ons, r6 forks, different springs for the forks, new tire, etc...) Or is it just the way our bike is made? It seems more top heavy, I guess? I don't really want to move to an R6, just want to make our bike handle more naturally...

Thoughts?

 

[OneCheekRider]

I have an R6 along with my FZ6. I rode the R6 on the street for 2 years before it got fully dressed for track & racing. I hated it on the street.

Aside from comfort, the FZ6 likely feels like it turns in easier due to the lack of clip-ons and your higher center of gravity with a more upright riding position. With that said, lower speed maneuvering is going to be much easier on the FZ. Alternatively, The R6 will eat up faster turns much easier. As you probably already know, the stock suspension on the R6 is much better for spirited riding than the FZ's due to valving and adjustability.

Honestly, on the street, I think the FZ6 suspension is great. Admittedly, it dives a bit much under heavy braking and 'jumps' a little on road imperfections but IMO is totally worth the ride comfort (I primarily use the FZ for commuting).

The "natural" feeling you talk about is likely due to the difference in riding position and the closer your body is to the bike. The different suspension bits help too, but at the expense of ride quality

 

[Ssky0078]

I'm a new rider but here is my guess.

The handlebar compared to the clip-on provides a much different riding position. By your weight shifting around it's going to definitely change the feel of turn in. I just took my Fz1 for a spin yesterday on the twisty Summit Road going up south mountain in Phoenix. I was playing around with my body position, arm position, legs. I found that if I lowered my body down a little bit, bent my elbows parallel to the ground and got into a more aggressive athletic position with my lower body I feel way more confident in the corners. If I just sit upright and countersteer it is not nearly as confidence inspiring. Remember you want to keep the front and rear suspension evenly loaded so that you get the best control/traction in the corners. I actually found my Fz6 easier to flick about in the corners by comparison to the Fz1 and I think in part I sit up a little more on the Fz1 and the handlebar position is not as aggresive as the Fz6 was for me.

 

[Cameronhall]

Im 6'2 and am refering to a 2006 R6. its a fun bike but I lean foward too much. i ether have to hold weight with my back or on my hands. the FZ6 is considerably more comfortable. My biggest issue is I cant turn on the turn signals without taking my hand off the grip. the angle is too sharp. Mind you I ride with an FZ1 bar.

 

[famous556]

In the more general sense, I can give some input. While I've never ridden an R6 I have ridden my buddies CBR1000RR quite a bit. On the CBR it feels like I am very much riding "on" the bike. I feel like I am on top of the bike and the entirety of the bike is underneath me.

On my FZ I feel much more a part of the machine. I feel like I am sitting with the bike and not as much like I am on the bike.

The turn in of the CBR is much more deliberate and heavy handed. The FZ by comparison is much more friendly and easier to handle. I'll give up a little edge in handling anyday for a much more comfortable ride.

 

[Ssky0078]

Im 6'2 and am refering to a 2006 R6. its a fun bike but I lean foward too much. i ether have to hold weight with my back or on my hands. the FZ6 is considerably more comfortable. My biggest issue is I cant turn on the turn signals without taking my hand off the grip. the angle is too sharp. Mind you I ride with an FZ1 bar.

I have an Fz1 and I think it's just the bar and instrument setup. I have the same problem and I actually just started using hand signals instead. The only time I make the effort for the turn signal is when I will be braking and turning because I don't want someone to run up my butt. For merging and such there is nothing more bad ass than turning and pointing at a driver behind you to indicate your coming in.

 

[PhotoAl]

Recently purchased a CBR600RR and it does feel a lot different than the FZ6 (which has FZ1 bars). Part is due to the position and part to the bars. The CBR600 is 40 or 50 pounds lighter, has a steeper head angle and the clipons are much lower, angled and narrower. The suspension is stiffer as well. To me the biggest differences are due to the riding position and the higher and greater weight on the FZ6. Added Heli riser bars to the CBR, made a huge difference, up 1.75", back 5/8", 3/4" wider and not angled down so much. Small changes but effectively moved the weight off my hands and sat me upright enough to feel more comfortable. After the CBR for a while the FZ6 felt almost twitchie and that is due to the higher and greater weight plus the front tire is worn and being a PR2 the sides are worn a little more than the center so it feels more like it is falling into a turn (little bit not much). Another factor is on the CBR the feet are higher and which makes the leg position different.

Love the FZ6 but the boss says one bike is OK 2 is too many! Will be selling it in the very near future.

 

[Wh0M3]

I haven't been on a R6 so I cannot speak about it. I went from a FZ6 to the FZ1 and found the bigger bike more stable and easier in the turns. Ive been thinking of taking my FZ6 and making it a street legal track bike. Keep the lights and plate but change it up to be aggressive for the track too. Changing up the handlebar and rear sets would change up the riding position too.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Xavias]

I haven't been on a R6 so I cannot speak about it. I went from a FZ6 to the FZ1 and found the bigger bike more stable and easier in the turns. Ive been thinking of taking my FZ6 and making it a street legal track bike. Keep the lights and plate but change it up to be aggressive for the track too. Changing up the handlebar and rear sets would change up the riding position too.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Well, I already have the Fz1 bars on, and am waiting on the OSO2K setback plates for the rearsets, so that'll change things. Thinking I may go to clip ons eventually as well. We'll see, I still have to change my chain/sprockets.

I was just wondering if like a suspension change would make it feel more planted like the R6, but it looks like it comes down to more of the way the bike is built/how heavy it is/your riding position on the bike. No worries.

 

[2old2ride]

Free advice is ALWAYS is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it. I'll look it up again before I do anything but in theory the way to improve the "feel" of a FZ is to go up to a .9 spring and a 15 wgt fork oil. I think. There is a thread here about it. I haven't ridden mine except around the block because it has been below 32F every day since I bought it. The back tire is down to the steel and I'm scared to ride it. Worried about pushing it out of the shed. So until I can get the new Bridgestones on it, I won't know what I have to do to the forks. Race Tech (Hyper Pro?) used to have a place where you could send in your bike, your weight and they would let you know what you need in the way of springs and oil. Spring compressors coast a bit more then a Grant (100$US) and fork springs a bit less so you can do it for around 200$US. It isn't hard. I prolly won't do mine till next winter since I have so much else to do to her. The previous owner didn't even have a battery tender lead on it, which IMHO is the first mod to do on any bike. Or maybe every bike. 90% of electrical problems can be prevented by taking care of your battery.
I HATE Electrical problems. Give me something that spins around and has OIL on it and eventually I'll figure it out. Eventually. Electrical problems? I end up replacing parts. Sooner or later I replace the right one and it's fixed. I hope. Until next time.

 

[Ssky0078]

Free advice is ALWAYS is worth EXACTLY what you paid for it. I'll look it up again before I do anything but in theory the way to improve the "feel" of a FZ is to go up to a .9 spring and a 15 wgt fork oil. I think. There is a thread here about it. I haven't ridden mine except around the block because it has been below 32F every day since I bought it. The back tire is down to the steel and I'm scared to ride it. Worried about pushing it out of the shed. So until I can get the new Bridgestones on it, I won't know what I have to do to the forks. Race Tech (Hyper Pro?) used to have a place where you could send in your bike, your weight and they would let you know what you need in the way of springs and oil. Spring compressors coast a bit more then a Grant (100$US) and fork springs a bit less so you can do it for around 200$US. It isn't hard. I prolly won't do mine till next winter since I have so much else to do to her. The previous owner didn't even have a battery tender lead on it, which IMHO is the first mod to do on any bike. Or maybe every bike. 90% of electrical problems can be prevented by taking care of your battery.
I HATE Electrical problems. Give me something that spins around and has OIL on it and eventually I'll figure it out. Eventually. Electrical problems? I end up replacing parts. Sooner or later I replace the right one and it's fixed. I hope. Until next time.

You can go to Racetech website and they have a spring calculator that you put in the bike weight and rider weight and riding style.

I tried emailing them asking about the different spring options that they had and still haven't heard back. IMHO if someone is going to be buying a couple hundred bucks worth o goods you think you would email somebody back within a day or two.

Another thought, I was watching a racer video (cant' remember which) and the guy was saying that a teammate of his was actually riding on a softer setup than he was and was putting in faster lap times. I took away it's all about body position and throttle control. Watch the Keith Code Twist of the Wrist videos to cement the idea home. or the Rossi rides Bridgestone on Fz1 video

Finally it really is the rider not the bike. Yellow Wolf at Deals' Gap kills it every time with a Gold Wing often out running super sports.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo]deals gap on a goldwing/gl1800 by yellow wolf dragons tail - YouTube[/ame]

 

[DHoback]

My 09 fz has clip ons. The front is lowered and has full front and rear suspension. Its also been put on a major diet! It feels COMPLETELY different than stock. Still nimble, still comfy. Soaks up bumps much better and is just planted through corners. No front end dive and no rocking horse through the gears. Thing just feels like is on rails.

 

[Xavias]

My 09 fz has clip ons. The front is lowered and has full front and rear suspension. Its also been put on a major diet! It feels COMPLETELY different than stock. Still nimble, still comfy. Soaks up bumps much better and is just planted through corners. No front end dive and no rocking horse through the gears. Thing just feels like is on rails.

What do you mean by full front and rear suspension? Like, you threw in an aftermarket (racetech, r6 front, or ohlins) suspension?

What did you use for the clip-ons?

And do you have pictures?

 

[Ssky0078]

What do you mean by full front and rear suspension? Like, you threw in an aftermarket (racetech, r6 front, or ohlins) suspension?

What did you use for the clip-ons?

And do you have pictures?

I'm betting he put on fully adjustable front forks/shocks and an ohlin's type fully adjustable rear. He even went so far as to get the ink to prove it.
View attachment 46347

 

[Wh0M3]

Finally it really is the rider not the bike.

I agree with this 100%. Getting out and riding/ practicing turns helps build up confidence and skill. I've been wanting to go to some track days so I can improve my skill on a controlled environment. I also didn't want to do this on my "daily" ride. I know many people who promote going to the track to help your skills.

I've also been riding for a few years now and have not gotten my head around the suspension issue. I guess I don't really pay it much attention but once I start hitting the track I will start trying things and taking notes. I've just never really messed with it and rode them stock. I'm also a heavy guy so I don't know if that is helping or hurting me. I know after I bought and started riding my FZ1 I started noticing little things on the FZ6 that needed attention like the brakes, clutch, engine noises, all little things that I had grown accustom to because I rode it all the time and compensated for them with out knowing it.

 

[Xavias]

Yeah, I rode my friend's 2009 FZ1 and it just seems like a much more "stable" bike. Much like the R6 does.

Either way, I still love my FZ6! If I didn't, I would have sold her and saved up for a triumph daytona 675 no matter what.

 

[david323]

What do you mean by full front and rear suspension? Like, you threw in an aftermarket (racetech, r6 front, or ohlins) suspension?

What did you use for the clip-ons?

And do you have pictures?

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/47237-litt-e-fz6-could-build-update.html

 

[DHoback]

Racetech 1.1kg springs, adjustable preload adjusters and valve emulators in front forks. R1 rear shock with heavier fz6 spring. Woodcraft clip ons. See above thread for pics.

 

[Xavias]

Looks great!

This year I'm putting on the OSO2k rearset setbacks, and I have the FZ1 bar already.. .but maybe next winter I'll go with clipons... who knows!

 

[SweaterDude]

I'm a new rider but here is my guess.

The handlebar compared to the clip-on provides a much different riding position. By your weight shifting around it's going to definitely change the feel of turn in. I just took my Fz1 for a spin yesterday on the twisty Summit Road going up south mountain in Phoenix. I was playing around with my body position, arm position, legs. I found that if I lowered my body down a little bit, bent my elbows parallel to the ground and got into a more aggressive athletic position with my lower body I feel way more confident in the corners. If I just sit upright and countersteer it is not nearly as confidence inspiring. Remember you want to keep the front and rear suspension evenly loaded so that you get the best control/traction in the corners. I actually found my Fz6 easier to flick about in the corners by comparison to the Fz1 and I think in part I sit up a little more on the Fz1 and the handlebar position is not as aggresive as the Fz6 was for me.

the fz6 is more flickable because its lighter and has a shorter wheelbase. that part is easy science.