HavBlue and the IRS

[Nelly]

I am self employed.

I have searched and searched for good insurance and it is not available for me.
Still I will not vote for a canidate that supports national health care.

This is one of the main reasons I am considering closing my business and going to work for another company.

This kinda dont fit with the pervious post. Work hard make your life better make your own oppertunities. Where is the benefit to you Steve? Dosn't it suck that you are considering closing your dream just to get enrolled into health care?

 

[Mattberkshire]

We have a fantastic health care system in the UK. If you're poorly phone the doctor for an appointment. The question is are you REALLY poorly? If your answer is yes then come along next Monday and sit in the surgery all day until a doctor is free. Great. If I'm ill I am not going to sit for 3 hours in a room full of really sick people catching all sorts of bugs on chairs that will aggravate my already dodgy back. OK, well then if you are not REALLY poorly we can give you an appointment in 3 weeks (this is the truth, not an exageration). Well, OK. But won't I probably be over my sickness by then? yes you will. Brilliant, the system works. No-one is officially ever poorly!

Now, on the other hand if you have an immediate, urgent medical need go and see A&E (accident and emergency) because, say, you have accidently hammered a nail through your finger. Well, you go to A&E which is invariably filled with people who have indulged in Britains favouriote pastime of getting drunk and either injuring themselves or having a fight and injuring someone else, and themselves. So you must sit in a room full of drunk people abusing the staff and being sick for, maybe 6 or 7 hours before a nice nurse bandages your hand. If you are really unlucky you will be told that you need an x-ray and that that particular A&E doesn't do x-rays so could you please go to another hospital and wait another 6 or 7 hours for an x-ray which will confirm the nail has broken your finger and must be put in a splint.

My son required an urgent operation last year which was affecting his health for medical reasons (circumsicion). He was in pain and it was bleeding. the NHS said we would have to wait 3 months to see a consultant who would then make an appointment for some time in the future. **** it, I thought. Took out private insurance through my employer. It took 3 weeks from seeing the doctor to having the procedure done. Sucessfully.

The NHS is a joke. It is a joke because our government subjects them to stupid targets and causes them to be over beauracratic. Same with the schools and just about all the other areas over which they have an influence. A hospital will cancel an operation if that operation will cause the targets to look bad by taking too long to get done. The hospital is then rewarded for cancelling that operation by having short waiting lists for operations.

In short, and this has been an essay. Our government is very bad. (But the people who work in the NHS, and schools, are good - after all it's not their fault we are governed by this bunch of gormless control freaks)

 

[DefyInertia]

Buggerlugs, thanks for the information and good luck to your son.
________
Vaporizerinfo.Com

 

[craig007]

Well I like the IRS. My dad was an IRS agent for 25 year (now retired). It takes me several hours to do my taxes because I want to make sure that I pay the minimum legal tax. It's ashame that the tax code is so complicated but no one wants to give up on a loop-hole that helps them.

On NHS I am ambivalent. I think we already have a NHS although it is only for acute injuries and it is really inefficient. If you break your leg, or get shot and don't have insurance, the hospital will still fix you up. People that do have insurance pay more (in higher rates) to cover this. However if you need a heart-lung transplant and don't have insurance or a lot of money then you're out of luck. In America, we feel entitled to unlimited heathcare. As long as that is the expectation, NHS or private, we are going to have rapidly increasing costs.

On the UK system...it seems to work great for US visitors. A person in my group fell ill while on business in the UK. The took her to the hospital, where she went to the front of the line! They took really good care of her AND IT WAS FREE!!!

 

[HavBlue]

Buggerlugs, thanks for the information and good luck to your son.

DI, you had posted something earlier about costs associated with treatment and old folks not really getting the care they deserve. I happen to agree with you and have a similar, story. My gram died in 1986. My grandfather left her a very small military pension from WW1. He dies in 1957. As time progressed things got more expensive and she would clean houses to earn some extra money. In her later years and numerous trips to the hospital for pulmonary issues she could no longer do this. As her pension went up, her SSI checks got smaller so she never broke even till the day she died. The way we treat our elders in terms of financial situations after retirement is outrageous.

IMO, the current threshold of roughly $25,000 for singles and $32,000 for marrieds above 65 is unrealistic relative to real world net costs. Keep in mind, you'll not live in any form of luxury at that level. I can however see it at a level of $35,000 and $45,000 as this would offer breathing room which is not currently available to these folks. In this case, I also believe there should be a reduction of access for the EIC "earned income credit." rule.

EIC is a magnet for fraud. If I see an exam on a return with a collectible balance, I can't tell you how many times it is generated by a reversed EIC.
Hows about finding a schedule C that has gross earnings and net expenses that are identical and in the range that will qualify for the maximum EIC just in an effort to take advantage of the system. I might add many of these are between $3,000 and $6,000. This my esteemed colleague is a source of revenue.

By reversing the fraudulent refunds generated by the EIC and through the redirection of funds into senior citizens medical care issues we make a big dent in a very volatile issue to both young and old; I'm old so you can be young. I would also entertain you with the idea any personal contributions to Social Security after age 50 be taken advantage of. This meaning the individual taxpayer has the right to invest in an approved retirement fund with distributions available after age 62 and held to within the scope of the AGI threshold set at 35K for singles and 45K for married.

The quality of life for our elderly can be paid for through an adjustment in existing management practices relative to the monies associated with fraud and the EIC as well as the personal contributions of the taxpayers being set aside, which will increase the capitol available for old folks to use. The employer's contribution will continue to be paid to the general fund. Please understand I concede your previous knowledge of Social Security being the everlasting cash cow.

Note: Folks, there is a lot of crazy stuff going on in terms relative to both individuals and preparers that could either cost the unsuspecting taxpayer or get somebody thrown in the free 4 bar hotel we have. I can't tell you how important it is to seek every legal advantage however, as many of you have found issues on returns can be complex. So, find a quality tax professional that doesn't use Turbo Tax and knows the Tax code. If you have a preparer that charges you a percentage of your refund, send me a PM. Taking this one step further, you should know that if an exam were to take place and maximum penalties enforced, the penalties and interest alone would kill them not to mention additional tax assessed or the time in our hotel.

If you file a 1040EZ, those letters pretty much tell ya a monkey could do that return....

Stay tuned for penalty abatement.....

 

[HavBlue]

Well I like the IRS. My dad was an IRS agent for 25 year (now retired). It takes me several hours to do my taxes because I want to make sure that I pay the minimum legal tax.

What part of the Agency did your dad work Craig?

I don't want to pay any tax, period. So, my adjustments are in line with knowing roughly what I will get back each year. Forced savings? Maybe, but its there and I am in compliance. As your dad may have told you, he could never be late, generate a balance due return and he pretty much open up his financial life every year he was there. The glory is in knowing you beat the folks that thought they could beat the system and I am not talking about the low budget bandit. The largest IRS collection was a transfer pricing dispute with Glaxo Smith Kline Holdings (Americas) Inc. & Subsidiaries (“GSK”). GSK will pay the the US Treasury $3.4 billion. That's $3.4 billion to the American taxpayer.

 

[jfreakman]

Yeah but this is ****ing health care we're talking about. The customer can get completely screwed in a free markt if the correct forces are in place! Should that be an option here???

No, it's not right, and yet it is an option. It isn't right, I've said that many times on this thread.

BTW, please keep in mind that you're talking about economic theory in a vacuum...there are a lot of other factors that play into reality.

Of course I'm talking about theory in a vacuum. You have to, otherwise it wouldn't be a theory.

In reality, everything is different, according to the individual.

Did your mom have health insurance before she was denied health care? If so, was the insurance dropped when she found out that she needed a LOT of health care? (I'm asking because I can't remember if you said she did or not)
If so, you might want to consult an attorney, if you haven't already. John Grisham's the Rainmaker might be a work of fiction, but it contained a lot of truth about insurance companies.

 

[jfreakman]

Note: Folks, there is a lot of crazy stuff going on in terms relative to both individuals and preparers that could either cost the unsuspecting taxpayer or get somebody thrown in the free 4 bar hotel we have. I can't tell you how important it is to seek every legal advantage however, as many of you have found issues on returns can be complex. So, find a quality tax professional that doesn't use Turbo Tax and knows the Tax code. If you have a preparer that charges you a percentage of your refund, send me a PM. Taking this one step further, you should know that if an exam were to take place and maximum penalties enforced, the penalties and interest alone would kill them not to mention additional tax assessed or the time in our hotel.

If you file a 1040EZ, those letters pretty much tell ya a monkey could do that return....

Stay tuned for penalty abatement.....

Do you have any suggestions on reputable tax professionals?

 

[Nelly]

We have a fantastic health care system in the UK. If you're poorly phone the doctor for an appointment. The question is are you REALLY poorly? If your answer is yes then come along next Monday and sit in the surgery all day until a doctor is free. Great. If I'm ill I am not going to sit for 3 hours in a room full of really sick people catching all sorts of bugs on chairs that will aggravate my already dodgy back. OK, well then if you are not REALLY poorly we can give you an appointment in 3 weeks (this is the truth, not an exaggeration). Well, OK. But won't I probably be over my sickness by then? yes you will. Brilliant, the system works. No-one is officially ever poorly!

Unfortunately your post is misleading on a number of issues.
If you have an urgent need to see a GP they now have emergency appointments everyday. The problem is what is an emergency to you might be nothing to some one else.
What happens is people always put work before health and try to schedule their appointments around there work. They then don't bother to turn up for an appointment which means that the poor sod who did need the emergency appointment has been shafted by the non attendee.
Most GP’s you go into will have notices up saying last month 100 or so appointments were missed.
If your illness or condition is severe then every district operates an out of hours GP service. Yours is Newbury or the RBH. This runs for 18.00 - 22.30 Mon - Fri then 09.00 - 10.30 at the weekend. Know If you request an appointment to see a GP with a medical condition. They are obliged to see you within 48 hours. So to say you can't see a GP is misleading

Now, on the other hand if you have an immediate, urgent medical need go and see A&E (accident and emergency) because, say, you have accidently hammered a nail through your finger. Well, you go to A&E which is invariably filled with people who have indulged in Britains favourite pastime of getting drunk and either injuring themselves or having a fight and injuring someone else, and themselves. So you must sit in a room full of drunk people abusing the staff and being sick for, maybe 6 or 7 hours before a nice nurse bandages your hand. If you are really unlucky you will be told that you need an x-ray and that that particular A&E doesn't do x-rays so could you please go to another hospital and wait another 6 or 7 hours for an x-ray which will confirm the nail has broken your finger and must be put in a splint.

Again your post is misleading, I totally agree with you that a few years ago 2002. We had patients waiting in corridors to be seen and we had people waiting for beds. Sometimes for 24 hours. The system was at fault. A&E used to operate on a Life or Limb priority. This meant that when you turn up with your twisted ankle that you did two days ago, it is not a life or limb problem, so you never got seen.
In 2003 this changed with the new streaming system. If you present to A&E and it is an A&E problem you will be seen and treated within 2 hours. Now this does go out the window on some days for the following reasons.

The waiting room is full as you put it with drunk people.
Its Monday morning and the person who injured themselves didn't want to inconvenience there weekend with seeking attention.
1/4 of the people attending should go to the GP, but can't be arsed to pick up a phone. So decide its quicker to go to A&E.
Or more likely, There has been a trauma that requires all hands to the deck.
I worked two weekends ago and I was looking after a girl who kept fainting because she was hungover. An emergency call came in and I had to go and resuscitate a two-year old. This obviously took priority. The hung over girl was complaining that she was waiting. WTF was she doing in an Emergency department with a hangover.
Now if you need a through work up for an acute illness then you will be seen and admitted or discharged in 4 hours. Again this can occasionally go astray with work load. Again I was working and the department was full 60 patients. We had 7 ambulances waiting in the doorway. What can you do but your best. Our Department sees 78,000 patients a year. On average there will only be a few days when 6 or so people are not seen in this time frame.
Neither I nor any of my colleagues enjoy watching people waiting and not being able to care for them as well as we would like.
My son required an urgent operation last year which was affecting his health for medical reasons (circumsicion). He was in pain and it was bleeding. the NHS said we would have to wait 3 months to see a consultant who would then make an appointment for some time in the future. **** it, I thought. Took out private insurance through my employer. It took 3 weeks from seeing the doctor to having the procedure done. Successfully.

I can't comment on your sons case. As I said life or limb, did you go to A&E with this. If he was clinically unstable and the case was as urgent as you suggest he should have been sorted then. Children are normally a priority.


The NHS is a joke. It is a joke because our government subjects them to stupid targets and causes them to be over beauracratic. Same with the schools and just about all the other areas over which they have an influence. A hospital will cancel an operation if that operation will cause the targets to look bad by taking too long to get done. The hospital is then rewarded for cancelling that operation by having short waiting lists for operations.

This is actually not true at all. The hospital gets financially penalised for cancelling operations. There is an 18 week maximum waiting time from referral to knife lol. By cancelling operations it actually effects the whole service as the hospital relies on that revenue from the government to maintain its services.
Operations are cancelled for only a few reasons.
They are non urgent and an urgent case needs to be done as a priority.
They patient is at a high risk of Anaesthetic complications (death)
The patient is unlikely to survive the procedure.
Or as we have had this week across the UK, People are flooding the hospitals with the 24 hour norovirus. Medically nothing can be done, unless you are very old or very young and require intra-venous fluid replacement.

Your final part I agree with, the picture you painted was certainly of an NHS not to long ago. Things have changed and will continue to do so. However the NHS needs the help and support of its users. If its not urgent don't go to an A&E. This is perhaps one of the fundamental faults with our system. It is seen as a right and not a privilege to have free health care. I don’t doubt that you have had bad experience with the NHS. But please lets look at it in it’s true context.
Neil
In short, and this has been an essay. Our government is very bad. (But the people who work in the NHS, and schools, are good - after all it's not their fault we are governed by this bunch of gormless control freaks)

Lugs,
.........................

 

[HavBlue]

In short, and this has been an essay. Our government is very bad. (But the people who work in the NHS, and schools, are good - after all it's not their fault we are governed by this bunch of gormless control freaks)

Don't blame the government of a free democratic society. Rather, blame the people because they control the government and their desires for whatever programs and services are the driving force behind spending and the associated taxation of that government's people to support that spending.

 

[sportrider]

off hand how many people work for the IRS?

 

[HavBlue]

off hand how many people work for the IRS?

Roughly 100,000 with an 11 billion dollar budget.

 

[sportrider]

with that knowledge and knowing the population is roughly 281,000,000
seeing how not everyone is a tax payer and I'm sure not every employee of the IRS does audits. so depending on how many audits an auditor can do, I'd say your odds of getting audited are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/700
but seeing how I've been audited twice and both times the IRS found that I had an error on my tax return and had overpaid (so I got an additional refund with interest) I'd say I wouldn't trust my odds (or my math skills) so naturally I pay to have my taxes done now. but never the less I'm not worried about getting audited it has always been money in the bank for me!!!:thumbup:

 

[craig007]

HavBlue: My dad worked in New Brunswick, NJ and lead teams that audited multinational companies to make sure that they were not underpaying their US taxes. Sometimes in their desire to pay the minimum legal tax, companies go a little too far.

 

[HavBlue]

with that knowledge and knowing the population is roughly 281,000,000
seeing how not everyone is a tax payer and I'm sure not every employee of the IRS does audits. so depending on how many audits an auditor can do, I'd say your odds of getting audited are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/700
but seeing how I've been audited twice and both times the IRS found that I had an error on my tax return and had overpaid (so I got an additional refund with interest) I'd say I wouldn't trust my odds (or my math skills) so naturally I pay to have my taxes done now. but never the less I'm not worried about getting audited it has always been money in the bank for me!!!:thumbup:

Chances are you will not be audited for the first 2 years after a return is posted. This isn't to say that it wouldn't happen, only to say that a red flag would have to come up. Generally it is the second or third year when the audit occurs and if money is owed, a penalty and interest will apply. Typically an AGI over $100,000 will put you in a higher risk category for lack of a better term. More auditors are on the way in 2008 according to the news (internal).
Typically it's the high dollar folks that have the lions share of the problems.

 

[Mattberkshire]

Lugs,
.........................

I am perfectly happy to be corrected by someone who knows the NHS better than I do. It still needs more efficiency but you have pointed out some facts I wasn't aware of so I defer on those points. The issue with GP's is still true though. If I make an appointment with my doctors (a rural practice covering in Chapel Row) they cannot make me an appointment for at least 2 weeks unless it is emergency in which case I would have to wait in surgery on alloted times

 

[Cloggy]

The money that I pay as Grommit elequantley scribed. Does not only cover health care. It payed my mortgage payment for six months when I had a motorcycle smash and couldn't work. It is paying to give me a state pension as well as the private one I have. It pays for my kids to go to university. So it is cheap at half the price.

I totally agree with you Neil. I realize that I joined this discussion pretty late but I've just come back from visiting the relatives in the UK. During this time my youngest daughter caught a very nasty stomach bug, and after not being able to hold in foods or drinks we took her to my parents doctor (GP) (after first making an appointment). In the first case it seemed she would have to be committed to hospital due to dehydration, but luckily shortly afterwards she started to recover.
What I still don't understand is that the NHS still hasn't worked out a system of getting money off of the foreigners that use their services. As I've said before I am fully insured but the doctor didn't want any of my insurers money (I don't think they know how to deal with this) but I'm sure it would pay to have a couple of people put on this task. I believe free help is only for people who pay into the system.

In Holland we have private health care, you have to have insurance by law but the poorer people get an allowance to help them pay. There are also many rules layed down by the government to stop insurance companies cutting corners, refusing people or removing certain coverage from their policies. I must admit this does lead to a very efficient system with low waiting times for most operations (as the hospitals only get paid by the insurance company if they carry them out within a certain time frame).

I have a good friend in the UK who has had leukemia twice, but has now been clear for more than 10 years. If he had been insured in America I am pretty sure that he would not still be around, or the rest of his family would be living in so much debt.

 

[Nelly]

I totally agree with you Neil. I realize that I joined this discussion pretty late but I've just come back from visiting the relatives in the UK. During this time my youngest daughter caught a very nasty stomach bug, and after not being able to hold in foods or drinks we took her to my parents doctor (GP) (after first making an appointment). In the first case it seemed she would have to be committed to hospital due to dehydration, but luckily shortly afterwards she started to recover.
What I still don't understand is that the NHS still hasn't worked out a system of getting money off of the foreigners that use their services. As I've said before I am fully insured but the doctor didn't want any of my insurers money (I don't think they know how to deal with this) but I'm sure it would pay to have a couple of people put on this task. I believe free help is only for people who pay into the system.

In Holland we have private health care, you have to have insurance by law but the poorer people get an allowance to help them pay. There are also many rules layed down by the government to stop insurance companies cutting corners, refusing people or removing certain coverage from their policies. I must admit this does lead to a very efficient system with low waiting times for most operations (as the hospitals only get paid by the insurance company if they carry them out within a certain time frame).

I have a good friend in the UK who has had leukemia twice, but has now been clear for more than 10 years. If he had been insured in America I am pretty sure that he would not still be around, or the rest of his family would be living in so much debt.

That is a great window of in-sight with out bias. Your poor daughter sounds like she had the Norovirus. Im glad she is on the mend. Two of our children also had it. It's scary and not pleasent for the patient.
We do have ateam in the hospital to seek overseas patients, they work part-time. The problem is we are so bad at asking people for cash. It goes against the grain.

 

[Cloggy]

That is a great window of in-sight with out bias. Your poor daughter sounds like she had the Norovirus. Im glad she is on the mend. Two of our children also had it. It's scary and not pleasent for the patient.
We do have ateam in the hospital to seek overseas patients, they work part-time. The problem is we are so bad at asking people for cash. It goes against the grain.

I know what you mean Neil about going against the grain, which on one side is a good thing, but on the other my Mum has once used her E111 to pay for her treatment in Holland, which ultimately means that the NHS does pay for their "customers" overseas, so why not the other way around?

By the way my daughter is fighting fit again, but it took a while.

 

[mikebike]

HavBlue.... what do you think of the Fair Tax Plan by Neil Boortz (sp)

it would put you into retirement....