Is this a mis(fire)?

[REO Scorpio]

So, I recently changed the oil and noticed some smell of gas when I was recycling the old. Put new oil in, slight gas smell (maybe burnt) from the crankcase now as well. Could simply be the new map I loaded which needs to be leaned out a little.

However, while looking around at what may be the cause, I noticed that at idle, the temp of my #1 cylinder was about 50-80 degrees cooler (Farenheit; about a 20 degree for you advanced Celcius folk) than the other three. Now, I realize that an IR gun on shiny pipes isn't the most accurate, but after many (hundreds? ) of measurements, this seems to be about the average discrepancy. The rest have an insignificant difference from each other. If I ride for awhile, stop and kill the engine and measure, temps are all about the same.#1 and #4 may be a little cooler, guessing airflow helps there.

Pulled all the plugs (iridiums, changed 2K ago) and all look normal with a nice light tan color.

At idle, the tach is dead on. If I hold at a given RPM, the needle bounces just above and below the mark I'm holding. Nothing major, about the width of the needle.

So, my question is, is this potentially a misfire in the #1 cylinder? I'm not confident enough in my mechanical ear to know for sure what I am hearing vs. what I should be. If you've seen my posts, I chase my share of phantom gremlins. :banghead:

I hate taking it to the dealer because of the time, money, and frankly the attitude I get at the local shops. If I have to, I'll do it, but I'd like to get some input and some other checks before I do.

Next step I guess would be to pull the boots one at a time and see if the #1 doesn't change engine noise? Then, maybe switching the coils (can I just switch the wires from plug to plug) to chase down the electrical side?

When I did my first TB sync way back when, I did move #1 on accident, but tried to move in to original and nonetheless balanced them all. Maybe that has something to do with this...

If anyone has some advice before I take it in or continue the proverbial chase, I'd appreciate it, as always.

Scorp


P.S. Link to a video from another post. If you ignore the 6K revs, you can hear the idle.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFSfRIuuvac"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFSfRIuuvac[/ame]

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

From the video, the bike sounds pretty healthy/normal to me..

Can you check the temps of the header while its running? If that cylinder is set to run a little leaner (CO settings) it might run a little warmer.

I know the European bikes have easy access to check/change the CO settings, I believe you can make a jumper to access/adjust the CO settings(read it here on the forum) for US bikes..

I know my old 04 FJR was factory mapped VERY lean on the bottom end and the tach needle jumped considerably more when holding steady at 3k RPM's. At times you could actually feel the surging under 3K RPM's...

 

[REO Scorpio]

Thanks for the reply, as always, Scott

Definitely not set to run leaner. I did jump the connection to check out CO values before, but both were at 0. But, having accidentally moved the #1 airscrew, now the fact that this one cylinder runs cooler seems more than coincidental. That combined with the gas smell just had me wondering (which in and of itself is dangerous.)

I've taking temps at idle in the drive, with a running engine after a ride, a stopped engine immediately after a ride, etc. #1 is always significantly cooler running at idle, but once the revs/ride increase they seem to all be even.

At the very least, I'm glad it sounds healthy to someone.

Scorp


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[TownsendsFJR1300]

No problem....

If you can find the thread, and set the CO value for #1 a little richer (thus cooler) should help. Its my understanding the CO settings (should be a setting for each cylinder) effect the lower RPM's...

If you moved the #1 air screw, have you done a follow up throttle sync?

The 4 adjuster screws on the block under the tank are VERY SENSATIVE when adjusting. Its possible to have the sync out some which could have one cylinder running a little warmer. I have seen, literally, pushing the air screw when syncing make a difference.

As posted in another thread, I have the Morgan Carbmate sync tool which I ordered from England about 3 years ago (about $85 shipped to my door). No fluids, extremely high quality and extremely accurate. The way the FZ6 is laid out, it is extremely easy to sync. The factory allows 10mm difference between all cylinders, which most mechanics will get it to and stop. I got mine within 3MM across the board which eliminated 90% of the handlebar/seat buzziness... Well worth the investment IMHO.

Your bike sounds like it runs very well (I bet its within sync) but you can likely get the sync closer and run smoother...

 

[red_rock_beetle]

that does idle smooth for having a cylinder off ill try and take some IR ridings on mine tomorrow and see what i come up with

related VW stuff, tune out if you want

on the type 1 aircooled vw motors you adjust the #3 exhaust valve .002 inches wider than others because at speed that cylinder runs a little hotter and the valve stretches a bit more, i wonder if yamaha have added something similar to that because of some reason like cooling issues or at speed vibration issue or some other issue?

 

[REO Scorpio]

I've got the Carbtune as well. Great piece of gear!

I did sync it again after moving the screw. I reset #1 as close to factory as possible (~220 mmHg) and then used the Carbtune to sync normally. They are about the same tolerances as yours came out to be.

The CO might work, but I thought it was batched (1/4 and 2/3), so adjusting CO would also adjust the other in the pair, right?

Plus, Ith the PCV and Autotune, its tough to have a baseline as I keep messing with it

I was just piqued by the temp difference and the gas smell.

Thanks guys and gals.

No problem....

If you can find the thread, and set the CO value for #1 a little richer (thus cooler) should help. Its my understanding the CO settings (should be a setting for each cylinder) effect the lower RPM's...

If you moved the #1 air screw, have you done a follow up throttle sync?

The 4 adjuster screws on the block under the tank are VERY SENSATIVE when adjusting. Its possible to have the sync out some which could have one cylinder running a little warmer. I have seen, literally, pushing the air screw when syncing make a difference.

As posted in another thread, I have the Morgan Carbmate sync tool which I ordered from England about 3 years ago (about $85 shipped to my door). No fluids, extremely high quality and extremely accurate. The way the FZ6 is laid out, it is extremely easy to sync. The factory allows 10mm difference between all cylinders, which most mechanics will get it to and stop. I got mine within 3MM across the board which eliminated 90% of the handlebar/seat buzziness... Well worth the investment IMHO.

Your bike sounds like it runs very well (I bet its within sync) but you can likely get the sync closer and run smoother...

 

[FinalImpact]

Did I miss something; isn't #1 already cooler than the others? All things being equal, you likely need to lean it out to raise the temp unless doing so results in a lean misfire.

But before doing such things I'd want to check for vacuum leaks between the area of the throttle plates and the head. Also Valve adjustment could play a roll here too. An intake/exhaust which is too tight will lead to a cooler burn.

Honestly you're really down to splitting hairs but I guess I've never had a means to eyeball a good running engine with an EGT probe and 50 to 80 degrees at idle is no big deal. At 3/4 to Full throttle I doubt its that good where it matters.


OK - this is just me thinking out load. Your engine sounds fine. If your set on playing you could swap coils and swap plugs. Fiddle with the air screw and check for leaks. As for that side of the block running cooler (not just the exhaust) the timing chain has extra space and oiling so the cylinder is likely going to cooler than the one on the other side.

What's your MPG on a good tank?

 

[REO Scorpio]

Did I miss something; isn't #1 already cooler than the others? All things being equal, you likely need to lean it out to raise the temp unless doing so results in a lean misfire.

But before doing such things I'd want to check for vacuum leaks between the area of the throttle plates and the head. Also Valve adjustment could play a roll here too. An intake/exhaust which is too tight will lead to a cooler burn.

Honestly you're really down to splitting hairs but I guess I've never had a means to eyeball a good running engine with an EGT probe and 50 to 80 degrees at idle is no big deal. At 3/4 to Full throttle I doubt its that good where it matters.


OK - this is just me thinking out load. Your engine sounds fine. If your set on playing you could swap coils and swap plugs. Fiddle with the air screw and check for leaks. As for that side of the block running cooler (not just the exhaust) the timing chain has extra space and oiling so the cylinder is likely going to cooler than the one on the other side.

What's your MPG on a good tank?

I've checked for leaks in the past but can check again. Bike only has about 9K, so I'd be a little disappointed if valves were the issue!

Haven't checked the actual block temp on either side as its really just that first header pipe that's cooler, not the timing chain side.

As for MPG, best on record is 44, worst 35. Average in the middle. The tank I'm on now will probably be horrible due to the rich map and all the idling.

Thanks again!




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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Did I miss something; isn't #1 already cooler than the others? All things being equal, you likely need to lean it out to raise the temp unless doing so results in a lean misfire.

But before doing such things I'd want to check for vacuum leaks between the area of the throttle plates and the head. Also Valve adjustment could play a roll here too. An intake/exhaust which is too tight will lead to a cooler burn.

Honestly you're really down to splitting hairs but I guess I've never had a means to eyeball a good running engine with an EGT probe and 50 to 80 degrees at idle is no big deal. At 3/4 to Full throttle I doubt its that good where it matters.


OK - this is just me thinking out load. Your engine sounds fine. If your set on playing you could swap coils and swap plugs. Fiddle with the air screw and check for leaks. As for that side of the block running cooler (not just the exhaust) the timing chain has extra space and oiling so the cylinder is likely going to cooler than the one on the other side.

What's your MPG on a good tank?

You are correct re leaning it out to heat up #1 cylinder, my boo.

+1 on the rest of your post as well.

REO Scorpio, I'm not positive as I've never jumped the CO settings, but it was my understanding you can indeed change the CO setting for each cylinder. The CO settings would be going thru the throttle bodies, so its not based on the firing order, or coil/spark firing. I know my FJR, set super lean at the factory would misfire/run quite rough, especially when cold. Above 3K RPM's, it was fine.

As noted above, the temp difference isn't much at idle and fine when running.

Just something to note, when I sync my FZ, I do it both at idle and at 4k RPM. You should be able to get a happy medium and eliminate any 4k vibration (and still stay well within 10mm). Its not as important for a total vacuum as it is to get all the cylinders even across the board. Much over 4K, the syncing screws won't make a difference.

You'd be surprised how it looks even at idle, raise the RPM's to 4k and a cylinder would pull considerably more vacuum. I adjusted them to even it up at 4K and still be real close at idle, it does make a difference off idle up to approx 4-5 K RPM's..

 

[FinalImpact]

As for MPG, best on record is 44, worst 35. Average in the middle. The tank I'm on now will probably be horrible due to the rich map and all the idling.
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My daily commute of 50 miles round trip of freeway to work and city streets home gets me 44 on average. Road trips sinking a whole tank of fuel gets up upwards of 50++mpg. So if thats stop and go miles (44) that's not bad. If that's your freeway miles its a bit rich.

So what are header tube temps you recorded?? I'm curious. . .

 

[REO Scorpio]

My daily commute of 50 miles round trip of freeway to work and city streets home gets me 44 on average. Road trips sinking a whole tank of fuel gets up upwards of 50++mpg. So if thats stop and go miles (44) that's not bad. If that's your freeway miles its a bit rich.

So what are header tube temps you recorded?? I'm curious. . .

Mostly commuting for me, at least a portion of each tank. And yes, it's running rich a lot as I move maps around.

Measurements below should be taken lightly. You have to kind of aim the gun and wiggle it to get a quick average. The shine of the metal really makes this more of a comparison of the headers than absolute numbers. Readings are taken right above the bend on the headers.

The below are off the top of my head at work. I'll update with specific numbers when I'm home and this rain stops.


Idling after about five minutes, it's around 180-200 Fahrenheit on each cylinder, with #1 about 140-150.

If I pull over while riding and kill it, 2-4 are around 280-300, #1 220-240ish.

Scorp


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