Leo Vince SBK + K&N filter bike runs weird now

[rcruz17]

so I had bike running 100% and decided it was ok to put on the leo vince with cat eliminator along with a K&N filter to balance out the airflow. I unplugged the battery and fire it up bike is running very choppy wont even accelerate and about a minute or so later idle smoothes itself out and bike is running good... Perfect I think ECU retuned itself and its good to go. go for a ride bike feels ok still getting used to the power surge after 6k rpm.

But the second time I go ride it same thing happens...cold start bike idles rough and wont accelerate eventually it gets good and im all set to go. I did some CO tuning went +10 then +15 feels good but at the same time its like misfiring dont know how to explain it sometimes I take off and shes good sounds throaty and other times she sounds muffled and then at any given point in rpm range she would start sounding normal again and accelerate smoother. its not even like she suddenly has more power its just a very noticeable change in the exhaust tone and smoothness of accelerator...

any suggestions? this is an 05 with 9600 had TPS replaced at dealer when I got the bike.

 

[FinalImpact]

On the S1 the ECU does not store anything it simply runs from the fuel/ignition map for the variables at hand.

The low or no throttle response when cold sounds like it doesn't have the fuel it needs or the fuel it has is not being burned.

Also, how much oil is on that new filter? Too much and it becomes very restrictive and a cold engine may not like it.
When is the last time the plugs were inspected or replaced? Do not exceed spec on the gap.

I vote one and only one change at a time and install the old filter and cold start. What happens?
If no change, look at the plugs!

 

[rcruz17]

On the S1 the ECU does not store anything it simply runs from the fuel/ignition map for the variables at hand.

The low or no throttle response when cold sounds like it doesn't have the fuel it needs or the fuel it has is not being burned.

Also, how much oil is on that new filter? Too much and it becomes very restrictive and a cold engine may not like it.
When is the last time the plugs were inspected or replaced? Do not exceed spec on the gap.

I vote one and only one change at a time and install the old filter and cold start. What happens?
If no change, look at the plugs!

The bike has new oem plugs and I tightened and the plug wires and caps when i did so. Put about 50 miles or so on new plugs when I figured she was good and put the exhaust. The K&N was new vacuum sealed package had an even red color so looked properly oiled no dripping.

 

[FinalImpact]

Install old filter and test.

Or next cold start cover the rightside exhaust outlet. See if it helps it.

FWIW: I've pushed the C1/C2 values up to 25 & 35. It helped rewit and response. But even the S2 wide open, it ran fine hot or cold.

With wide open exhaust I knew it was lean and added the Bazzaz FC and logger to monitor AFR.

 

[rcruz17]

Ok I finally had some time and put the stock air filter back on. She turned on same way even covered right exhaust then left one and neither made a difference once she warmed up a bit she accelerated better. I did feel like she warmed up faster though.
Took her for a spin and she was acting up less but still has her moments. Before i turned back i put the co adjustment at +25 and rode like 3 miles back home didnt notice much of a difference.
Sometimes she takes off good other times she like bogs and has no power.
Verified TPS reading and its consistent how its been since
I got her back from dealer recall.

Is a power commander my solution to richen her up? Its an 05 bazzaz doesnt have a listing for this year.

 

[FinalImpact]

Was anything at all changed other than the filter and exhaust? Very few have noticeable issues from this.

I hate to say put the stock exhaust on, but it would be nice to know it is the cause.

Maybe do a shout out and borrow some db killes from another member? Goal is to increase exhaust back pressure for a test run.

Bazzaz may not show a part but it will work. The likely reason is that for you to use the logger, your header would need a bung welded to it. Which is easy and bung for the wide band o2 sensor is cheap... The logger not so cheap but its that or pay for tune.

I'd share mine but mines an S2 and will not be good fit.

 

[rcruz17]

I listed all the changes that were made could there be something else wrong with bike? would throttle bodies out of sync manifest themselves this way?

 

[Zealot]

I listed all the changes that were made could there be something else wrong with bike? would throttle bodies out of sync manifest themselves this way?

TBs being out of whack would only influence your idle to a degree, and cause some extra vibrations. I'm going with FI on this and saying it'd be wise to reinstall your stock exhaust and filter, and try swapping one out at a time or something to see where the issue arises.

You don't have a pinched gas line or anything, do you? Double check your plugs to make sure they're running well - my CBR was having an idle issue and it turns out one of the plugs wasn't quite seated entirely.

 

[rcruz17]

TBs being out of whack would only influence your idle to a degree, and cause some extra vibrations. I'm going with FI on this and saying it'd be wise to reinstall your stock exhaust and filter, and try swapping one out at a time or something to see where the issue arises.

You don't have a pinched gas line or anything, do you? Double check your plugs to make sure they're running well - my CBR was having an idle issue and it turns out one of the plugs wasn't quite seated entirely.

I know the plugs are fully seated because i had that issue and fixed it when bike still had stock exhaust and i drive her some and felt comfortable that she was at 100% to go ahead and change exhaust....
On 6/14 i put stock filter back on shes running same way.

 

[Zealot]

Changing the exhaust made my idle a bit lopey, and it can sometimes affect take off - but your descriptions are a fair bit different.

Have you checked your gas lines? Make sure all of those are straight and not pinched, which could have happened if you had the tank up for the airbox. Problems from that can be transient.

 

[FinalImpact]

A pinched line would offer proper pressure at the fuel rail for starting but the pinch would limit volume under higher demands like a 3rd gear wide open pull. Because it is not failing under peak load, the odds of a pinched line are zero IMO!

However, it doesn't mean it has the proper pressure to begin with! Which could be an undisclosed factor hidden from us.

 

[FinalImpact]

What is the cold and warm idle rpm?
Is there any reason to beleive the temperate reading is in error?

One quick test would be to unplug the temperature sensor and let the ecu use a fefault values. It will likely enrichen the circuit more but you could also add more to the C1/C2 values and get the same results. You could also go negative w the values if there is concern it is too rich.

What were the OEM C1/C2 values?

 

[rcruz17]

My stock CO2 values were -9/4
Ive had the tank up so many times prior taking the battery off and stuff ive never noticed the gas line get pinched it always follows the same natural curve so i doubt its that.

Ill see if I make a video of it tomorrow need to find my gopro charger

 

[motojoe122]

Fwiw, I had a similar problem with mine. I have the sbk's also. A tb sync solved my idle issue with and with out the db killers in the exhaust. Key point is you have to sync them with the db killers in if you run the bike that way. Do it if you run the bike with them out. If I sync with them in, it will lope with them out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FinalImpact]

A lope is one thing, unable to accelerate is another... pretty extreme change.

Also, TB sync is not going to help issues happening above 3500 rpm as the bulk of the air fueling the engine is now going through the throttle bodies vs the idle air control valve having the sync screws....

If you dont have sync tool, bottom each screw recording the # of turns to seat each one.
From the lowest turn count, set them all the same to the lowest value. Like say 1.25 turns out.
Return the C0 # to stock and test drive.

Also, pull the air box and confrim none of the vacum hoses have a split in them. An air leak could be the source of evil!

 

[rcruz17]

ok so heres a video hopefully it helps...

this is an undertank shot you can see the lines arent kinked everythings intact

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ag2hS2M4RAY

Here is a video of a coldstart...around the 1 minute mark you can see what I am experiencing, I even covered the exhaust like someone suggested. once she warms up she sounds way different but while riding i will still experience episodes of this.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/rP_9x_KXpco

 

[Zealot]

Your dash in the second video looks... Intermittent. Does the E mean anything? Error?

That almost seems like a short of some sort, perhaps. I'll let the electrical gods take care of you though - I'm out of my element here.

 

[rcruz17]

Your dash in the second video looks... Intermittent. Does the E mean anything? Error?

That almost seems like a short of some sort, perhaps. I'll let the electrical gods take care of you though - I'm out of my element here.

I always though E was for engine and that was my rpm reading...

 

[Ohendo]

Your dash in the second video looks... Intermittent. Does the E mean anything? Error?

That almost seems like a short of some sort, perhaps. I'll let the electrical gods take care of you though - I'm out of my element here.

'E' is for engine - displaying RPM mode just like he stated.
Also, I'm pretty sure the 'intermittent' dash appears that way due to the FPS setting of the goPro when it is recording an LCD display.

 

[FinalImpact]

That video makes it seem like a fueling issue although it would be worthy to see the system voltage while it is misbehaving! Also, if the plug gap is excessive, it could be a factor here.

That said, this defies what the exhaust should have done but for kicks drop both CO values by -20 as it sounds too rich. Or take the air filter out for the same test.

Last bit. Next cold start have a squirt bottle of water near and spray the headers. Do they all evaporate evenly when it running like that?? The steam or lack of steam will help you know!