R6 Cam swap DYNO results!

[finnishboy]

Some of you have been interested in about my R6 cam swap, sorry for waiting. Here is the result. Same bike, same dyno, same conditions, stock versus tuned.

"Teho 1" means power after
"Teho 2" means before (fully stock)
and so on...

RWHP 71.2kw
BHP 74.5kw


Feel free to ask if you want to know something, but remember, I'm not very active here.

Mods:
R6 cams (model 2002!?!?)
Leovinces
PC5

37000km
7000km after tuning, runs great and bike really feels alive!

 

[trepetti]

Some of you have been interested in about my R6 cam swap, sorry for waiting. Here is the result. Same bike, same dyno, same conditions, stock versus tuned.

"Teho 1" means power after
"Teho 2" means before (fully stock)
and so on...

RWHP 71.2kw
BHP 74.5kw


Feel free to ask if you want to know something, but remember, I'm not very active here.

Mods:
R6 cams (model 2002!?!?)
Leovinces
PC5

37000km
7000km after tuning, runs great and bike really feels alive!

View attachment 65982

Looks like a nasty dip in HP and Torque between 6 & 7 k RPM. How does that feel on the street? Since the cams change the volumetric efficiency, I am guessing that the stock fueling map not well matched to the flow of the R6 cams in that range.

 

[finnishboy]

You're right. All R6 have that dip too, not as nasty thought. It feels when you are riding around 6000rpm with 6th gear and then twist gas full open -> bike does not accelerate well... In other situations it isn't very noticeable. Anyway, I really like the bike nowadays.

Edit: It does not go rich or lean between 6k & 7k, it's just some kind of problem with flows...

 

[Zealot]

Looking at that, you almost have no reason to use the regular FZ6 cams in comparison. A tiny dip in power in one particular spot for solid performance thereafter. You'd have one of the most track worthy FZ6's out there! If you managed to spruce up the valves, and push out the rev limiter, you could break that 13,600 redline.

 

[fazil]

Looking at the chart, it seems like, low end torque is less with R6 cams. How does it feel in low Rpm city riding?

 

[ozgurakman]

The chart is looks good. For a sport tourer, low rpms are dead IMO. When starting to cruising, is it hard to give first move to bike? On my stock fz6, only clutch releasing is enough to start cruising. How it feels when at 4-5k rpm after tuning?

Edit: I read the chart wrong. I edited my words.

I wish to see r6 cams + leos without any fuel management on chart. Thanks for your sharing BTW.

 

[FinalImpact]

I hear ya when you say you feel it; but perhaps the blip is where the operator shifted? These not being torque monsters, that could be a 3 -> 4 shift! Maybe?
On that note; do you know what gear the final output was ran in?

An option to get back some bottom end would be to advance the exhaust cam about +2°. It will build compression sooner and shouldn't hurt the top end.

Even big name race shops slot the stock gears and rely on the oem bolts to hold them and they do.

Just to confirm; you did use the R6 cam gears; yes?
Also advancing the ignition timing will dramatically improve the throttle response and mid range pull. 5.0° over stock and bike is very happy! It only takes a file and and some veneer calipers!

Thanks for sharing!

 

[FinalImpact]

[MENTION=23314]finnishboy[/MENTION]
More questions;
Do you know what they set the Air Fuel Ratio too and what is the bikes primary use?

Thanks!

 

[finnishboy]

I believe that dead looking low rpm's is just cause of quick full throttle from idle with 6th gear on dyno.. It does not feel less powerfull than before. Throttle response is better that before except that dip at 6k... Cam gears are from R6. Timing is as original... It would be interesting to push the rev limiter out... Now it's impossible to hear or feel when the limiter hits. It's almost hard to do full acceleration without a wheelie with 1st gear and then BANG the limiter hits and ruins everything
I use bike on road, twisty roads here in Finnish country side.. Oh and the bike is Fz-6N so I dont travel very long trips much.. But when I do I ride fast Btw, before bike took about 235-240km/h to the speedo, now it takes 250. I'm not sure about the revs in those speeds :rockon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5r4-eaKhaE

 

[FinalImpact]

Do you know for fact they did that pull in 6th gear?
Anything about the AFR?

 

[finnishboy]

Yes I was watching it and it was 6th gear pull... I don't know about AFR... (can't remember)

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Did you have a custom map done for the R6 cams?

I've got R6 cams in my bike - and the 6-7k dip is really annoying. I'm trying to work out what I can do to get rid of it.

 

[FinalImpact]

Did you have a custom map done for the R6 cams?

I've got R6 cams in my bike - and the 6-7k dip is really annoying. I'm trying to work out what I can do to get rid of it.

Advance the exhaust cam about 2 - 3°

Also - I'm not sure if you have a fuel controller on there but advancing the ignition and correcting the fueling will help.
OEM map goes FAT @ 5.5-6.5K and then lean at 7K... its messed up! This corrects that!




This is a sample of one short run, but the corrections above basically produce a 13.0:1 AFR that is very lively!

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Advance the exhaust cam about 2 - 3°

Also - I'm not sure if you have a fuel controller on there but advancing the ignition and correcting the fueling will help.
OEM map goes FAT @ 5.5-6.5K and then lean at 7K... its messed up! This corrects that!

View attachment 66098


This is a sample of one short run, but the corrections above basically produce a 13.0:1 AFR that is very lively!

View attachment 66097

My results are in this thread I started a while ago:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-performance-mods-section/51251-r6-cams-8.html

S1 with decat and old style scorpions, with a custom PC111 map for the scorpion cans making 95hp at the wheel with dyno print out on standard cams.

I then dropped the R6 cams in - got the bike re dynod and was making 99rwhp without any tuning. Fuelling was all over the place (as you can see in the thread, page 8), but primarily the bike was slightly lean at the top end - so I added fuel myself on the powercommander 111 to make it safer.

But before I spent the money on the custom map I wanted to try and get rid of the tuning dip between 6-7k which is really annoying and makes these cams un useable on track at the moment.

I think in the US, the bikes will run less aggressive ignition timing because the quality of the fuel is poorer - Have you seen if there are part number differences between the UK and US spec bikes on the trigger wheel? I know (I think from memory, I'm talking about stuff I looked at over a year ago) the Fz6 and R6 have different trigger wheels. I'd be tempted to try and R6 trigger wheel.

At the moment if I could get rid of the dip and get a custom map I'd be very happy with the results.

 

[FinalImpact]

The proper method is doing it electronically through a flash. The only T wheel that will work is the same as ours so there is nothing to gain there.

So it leaves you with; mod trigger, a custom flash, and move the exhaust a few degrees to lesson the dip.

Hint the R6 ecu doesn't do batch fire and group injection, plus it looks at the cam to know when these events are happening. As such its trigger wheel has twice as many humps...

 

[0l0dom0l0]

The proper method is doing it electronically through a flash. The only T wheel that will work is the same as ours so there is nothing to gain there.

So it leaves you with; mod trigger, a custom flash, and move the exhaust a few degrees to lesson the dip.

Hint the R6 ecu doesn't do batch fire and group injection, plus it looks at the cam to know when these events are happening. As such its trigger wheel has twice as many humps...

So is the R6 trigger wheel no a direct fit then? I can't see any reason why it wouldn't fit? The part numbers are the same for the rest of the bottom end aren't they? (I'm not disagreeing with you I just can't see why it wouldn't).

I'm a bit out of date with what's been tried on the FZ6 scene now, I haven't been on the forums for a year!

I'm trying to get hold of some YEC cam sprockets which are 105 102 I think, which is the 3 degrees exhaust advance you're talking about.

I did also find some cams for £250 from a UK manufacturer for the R6, but it was slightly more intake lift than the standard R6 exhaust cam, and I thought we'd be pushing it with the valve springs (as the R6 cams are already 1mm more intake lift) but the lobe centres were much closer to the YEC specs (105, 102)

 

[FinalImpact]

Triggers before 2003 are like ours... Then they went to sequential injection and the trigger wheel is for the next generation of ECUs. Yes it fits but it wont work as it has double the density on the lobe counts so our ecu would be completely dumbfounded.... Its not an option...

I posted in your thread a little content that might help. Take a look.

As for the cam gears, its just money but if you have the means to slot them yourself, your $money ahead.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Triggers before 2003 are like ours... Then they went to sequential injection and the trigger wheel is for the next generation of ECUs. Yes it fits but it wont work as it has double the density on the lobe counts so our ecu would be completely dumbfounded.... Its not an option...

I posted in your thread a little content that might help. Take a look.

As for the cam gears, its just money but if you have the means to slot them yourself, your $money ahead.

I'm with you now. Let me dig out what I found before.