Speedometer shows 299 km/h :o

[Ugle]

Norwegian here. Just bought a bike that has the same problem. 2008 fz6-s(S1). Same conditions, happened after winter hibernation two years ago. Previous owners had the speedo unit changed. Problem went away, but reappeared on new speedo unit this year. These are the faults on my bike:
- 5k RPM on idle.
- speed shows approx triple.
- fuel gauge either shows full or empty, nothing in between.
- odometer counts wrong, probably due to the speed measured.

I have measured voltage on the battery. 12.26v when bike not running. 14.04v when revving it a bit.

What I did try, which surprises me, is when putting meter in "connectivity mode", ie beeping mode - I get beeping when I put multimeter black probe on battery negative and red probe on battery positive. Did the same test on a AAA battery. I did not get beeping putting red on + and black on -, but when I turned it opposite it beeped. I am not sure it's a valid test or not. Tried disconnecting fuses one by one and measuring if the beeping stopped, but no. Even with main fuse out it beeped. Heeeelp

 

[Gary in NJ]

Is this bike stored outside? This might be a moisture issue on the printed circuit boards inside the instrument cluster.

 

[Ugle]

Is this bike stored outside? This might be a moisture issue on the printed circuit boards inside the instrument cluster.

It has been stored in a shipping container on their property. I will open the instrument cluster and see. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Ugle]

Hi again. Haven't gotten around to dismantling the instrument cluster yet. But I did find some strange effect last night. When probing for connection with my multimeter last night, I found this:

I pulled out all the fuses from the fusebox in the back. Then I measured connectivity between the hot side of the fuse connector, and negative side of the main battery. And lo and behold - my multimeter beeps on three out of six fuses in the box + the fuse marked tail. The three fuses that are "shorted" are positioned towards the front of the bike. Could I be fooled by a diode or do I have a short somewhere?

 

[Ugle]

the green ones does not have a connection to negative on the battery. The red ones do. Is that normal?

 

[Gary in NJ]

If you had a short, the fuses would have done their job and open the circuit. I suspect that your multimeter closed the connection on circuits that are always hot.

 

[Ugle]

Unfortunately the speedo unit is clued together without any screws. To open it I would have to use a dremel tool and cut through the glue.
@Gary in NJ About the fuses. It could be, by why only 4 out of 7 fuses?

 

[Gary in NJ]

About the fuses. It could be, by why only 4 out of 7 fuses?

With the key on, and bike not yet started, there is no power to the headlight. Without a turn signal engaged, there is no power past the relay. And perhaps that's true for the ignition as well. I'm guessing...but it seems logical.

Here is a way to test the theory; run the test again on the signals, except this time cycle the switch on and off. My guess is that your continuity will beep in sync with the flasher.

 

[Ugle]

With the key on, and bike not yet started, there is no power to the headlight. Without a turn signal engaged, there is no power past the relay. And perhaps that's true for the ignition as well. I'm guessing...but it seems logical.

Here is a way to test the theory; run the test again on the signals, except this time cycle the switch on and off. My guess is that your continuity will beep in sync with the flasher.

Oh, yes. That's clever. I will try it tonight.

 

[Motogiro]

Norwegian here. Just bought a bike that has the same problem. 2008 fz6-s(S1). Same conditions, happened after winter hibernation two years ago. Previous owners had the speedo unit changed. Problem went away, but reappeared on new speedo unit this year. These are the faults on my bike:
- 5k RPM on idle.
- speed shows approx triple.
- fuel gauge either shows full or empty, nothing in between.
- odometer counts wrong, probably due to the speed measured.

I have measured voltage on the battery. 12.26v when bike not running. 14.04v when revving it a bit.

What I did try, which surprises me, is when putting meter in "connectivity mode", ie beeping mode - I get beeping when I put multimeter black probe on battery negative and red probe on battery positive. Did the same test on a AAA battery. I did not get beeping putting red on + and black on -, but when I turned it opposite it beeped. I am not sure it's a valid test or not. Tried disconnecting fuses one by one and measuring if the beeping stopped, but no. Even with main fuse out it beeped. Heeeelp

Before you go any further, it sound like you are probing live voltages with your meter while it is in continuity mode. If you haven't damaged your meter or blown a fuse inside your meter you should only be testing the fuses for continuity while they are out of circuit.

It does not seem your problem is with a fuse. All readings to your instrument cluster come from the ECU to the cluster via a single wire the carries the data. The instrument cluster has it's own internal CPU that decodes and sends that information to the LCD readout. The only signal that the instrument cluster CPU does not get from the ECU is the fuel level signal. Does the fuel level signal seem to be accurate?
It might be a good idea to disconnect the battery negative lead. Disconnect the ECU plug and carefully inspect the ECU pins and plug for possible corrosion. If the plug and pins look good blow off with some clean compressed air. Be careful not to bend pins. Reassemble and attach the battery. If the readouts are still off the problem is probably in the instrument cluster.

 

[Ugle]

The previous owners said that the fuel gauge is also off the charts. Either shows full or empty. I am not what to think - It seems to me that after I disconnected some wiring harness couplers, that fault went away. I noticed that, because I had the tank standing upwards to get to the battery, and when I turned the power on, the speedo shows three bars of fuel instead of one. Makes me believe that fault is gone.

Thanks for your input Motogiro. I will try cleaning the ECU connector.

 

[Ugle]

No change when I disconnected the ECU connector and aircleaned it. Did also check for connectivity on the yellow/blue cable between ECU and meter. Seemed fine. Did not have time to checkif the fuses were "shorted" when toggling light buttons though.

But what is measuring the RPM on this bike? Which sensor is that? TPS?

 

[trepetti]

No change when I disconnected the ECU connector and aircleaned it. Did also check for connectivity on the yellow/blue cable between ECU and meter. Seemed fine. Did not have time to checkif the fuses were "shorted" when toggling light buttons though.

But what is measuring the RPM on this bike? Which sensor is that? TPS?

RPM is measured by a trigger wheel and hall-effect sensor under the timing cover on the right side of the motor. See parts 14 and 21 on this diagram....

 

[Gary in NJ]

Unfortunately the FSM doesn't address failures of the instrument cluster. There is no known information (that I have seen) that describes the data stream that comes from the communication bus. So I am unable to provide you with specific information to troubleshoot this problem. Since you note that the Speed, RPM & Fuel are all showing false data, I'm fairly confident that your Instrument Cluster has failed. But you should rule out as many possibilities before investing in new parts.

There are three likely sources of failure; 1) the wire harness/connectors, 2) the instrument cluster itself, or 3) the ECU.

I would get a copy of the wire schematic from the FSM and perform a continuity test on each of the wires that drive the instrument cluster. Most of these are from the ECU.

Do you have a friend that also has a mid-2000's Yamaha? An instrument cluster from an FZ6, FZ8 and I believe a FZ1 will all work. You could simply install another cluster for 10 seconds to confirm the failure of your unit.

 

[Ugle]

RPM is measured by a trigger wheel and hall-effect sensor under the timing cover on the right side of the motor. See parts 14 and 21 on this diagram....

Thanks for the clarification. But did you plan to attach a diagram? I don't see the diagram. I have downloaded the service manual for all FZ6 versions which is 538 pages long. Maybe you can point to a page in that one.

Unfortunately the FSM doesn't address failures of the instrument cluster. There is no known information (that I have seen) that describes the data stream that comes from the communication bus. So I am unable to provide you with specific information to troubleshoot this problem. Since you note that the Speed, RPM & Fuel are all showing false data, I'm fairly confident that your Instrument Cluster has failed. But you should rule out as many possibilities before investing in new parts.

There are three likely sources of failure; 1) the wire harness/connectors, 2) the instrument cluster itself, or 3) the ECU.

I would get a copy of the wire schematic from the FSM and perform a continuity test on each of the wires that drive the instrument cluster. Most of these are from the ECU.

Do you have a friend that also has a mid-2000's Yamaha? An instrument cluster from an FZ6, FZ8 and I believe a FZ1 will all work. You could simply install another cluster for 10 seconds to confirm the failure of your unit.

Thanks again @Gary in NJ for replying. I am trying to rule out all the sensors but I am also questioning wether it's the meter or not. But I do have documentation that the meter was replaced. So that makes me think the problem is elsewhere. As I explained in the first post - The fault appeared during winter storage 2019->2020. Meter changed to new one in spring 2020. Everything ok, then problem appeared again after winter storage 2020->2021 on new meter. The previous owners said the battery was taken out of the bike before winter storage and stored inside their home and charged up two times during the winter.

You know, there's one thing. In one of the diag modes, you can get a voltage reading in the meter display. It showed 11.8V. Seems a bit low, right? I ordered a new rectifier just to be sure. The stator ohm values were spot on, so I doubt that one can cause any issues.

I will do as you described. Measure every wire coming out from the meter, to make sure it has connectivity to the end.

 

[trepetti]

Thanks for the clarification. But did you plan to attach a diagram? I don't see the diagram. I have downloaded the service manual for all FZ6 versions which is 538 pages long. Maybe you can point to a page in that one.


Thanks again @Gary in NJ for replying. I am trying to rule out all the sensors but I am also questioning wether it's the meter or not. But I do have documentation that the meter was replaced. So that makes me think the problem is elsewhere. As I explained in the first post - The fault appeared during winter storage 2019->2020. Meter changed to new one in spring 2020. Everything ok, then problem appeared again after winter storage 2020->2021 on new meter. The previous owners said the battery was taken out of the bike before winter storage and stored inside their home and charged up two times during the winter.

You know, there's one thing. In one of the diag modes, you can get a voltage reading in the meter display. It showed 11.8V. Seems a bit low, right? I ordered a new rectifier just to be sure. The stator ohm values were spot on, so I doubt that one can cause any issues.

I will do as you described. Measure every wire coming out from the meter, to make sure it has connectivity to the end.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2005/fz6-fz6st/electrical-1

Oops. On vacation and maybe a bit too relaxed.

 

[Gary in NJ]

It showed 11.8V. Seems a bit low, right?

Is that with the bike running? Does your multimeter agree with this figure?

 

[Motogiro]

Looks like we may be getting closer. I agree with Gary on the issue of no info for trouble shooting the instrument cluster. Reading the schematic you can see there are direct connections for indicator lights on the cluster but all other info that goes to the LCD display and tachometer are generated by the CPU that exists within the cluster. Multiple information coming to that CPU is generated by the bike's ECU. There is no FSM information confirming this other than conclusion that specific sensor signals are not connected directly to the cluster but instead to the ECU. There is one line from the ECU to the cluster and it would carry those multiple values digitally.

Years ago we had a member, IIRK in the UK. His engine would run fine. He would put it in gear and the engine ran fine but as soon as the rear wheel rotated the engine would stumble and loose power. It wasn't like opening a throttle and and because the air/fuel mix changed it stumbled. He put the bike on the center stand started it, leaving it in neutral, and when he rotated the rear wheel it would happen.
I thought about for a bit and thought if there was cross talk between sensor, one might interfere with another. The speed sensor and the throttle position sensor? We had him unplug his harness plugs and flush them with water and blow dry. It totally cleared the cross talk. The problem was probably some road salt contamination that allowed a better signal path between segregated sensors. Try a glass of water with out salt and your ohm meter and then add salt!

It looks like the cluster is at fault but it can't hurt to flush plugs with water, compressed air dry, maybe some silicone grease and reassemble the plugs. Scrutinize the ground paths! Bad ground paths are a very common conclusion to a myriad of malfunctions. On the S1 FZ6 there is a white with red tracer wire that the schematic shows as tied to ground. On the S2 cluster, the black with a white tracer is the cluster ground.

The schematic on the S1 shows an undetermined location for the ground while the S2 schematic shows a common to the ECU ground location.
Unfortunately an electronic representation of the ground path might not tell you where the actual physical ground is but I wonder why there was a different way the ground was represented in S1 as opposed to S2 schematics.

On S1 and S2 FZ6 the yellow with a blue tracer is the data wire.

I think if you check these areas out and you feel confident they're healthy and the cluster is still defective the issue is probably a defective cluster.

 

[Ugle]

Is that with the bike running? Does your multimeter agree with this figure?

I believe it was measured not running. Another thing I noticed was when I measured the voltage on the battery it was jumping all over the place. All the way down to 6-7 volts. I can try doing it with the bike running as well. Although I'm not sure it's possible to enter diag mode when bike is running.

Looks like we may be getting closer. I agree with Gary on the issue of no info for trouble shooting the instrument cluster. Reading the schematic you can see there are direct connections for indicator lights on the cluster but all other info that goes to the LCD display and tachometer are generated by the CPU that exists within the cluster. Multiple information coming to that CPU is generated by the bike's ECU. There is no FSM information confirming this other than conclusion that specific sensor signals are not connected directly to the cluster but instead to the ECU. There is one line from the ECU to the cluster and it would carry those multiple values digitally.

Years ago we had a member, IIRK in the UK. His engine would run fine. He would put it in gear and the engine ran fine but as soon as the rear wheel rotated the engine would stumble and loose power. It wasn't like opening a throttle and and because the air/fuel mix changed it stumbled. He put the bike on the center stand started it, leaving it in neutral, and when he rotated the rear wheel it would happen.
I thought about for a bit and thought if there was cross talk between sensor, one might interfere with another. The speed sensor and the throttle position sensor? We had him unplug his harness plugs and flush them with water and blow dry. It totally cleared the cross talk. The problem was probably some road salt contamination that allowed a better signal path between segregated sensors. Try a glass of water with out salt and your ohm meter and then add salt!

It looks like the cluster is at fault but it can't hurt to flush plugs with water, compressed air dry, maybe some silicone grease and reassemble the plugs. Scrutinize the ground paths! Bad ground paths are a very common conclusion to a myriad of malfunctions. On the S1 FZ6 there is a white with red tracer wire that the schematic shows as tied to ground. On the S2 cluster, the black with a white tracer is the cluster ground.

The schematic on the S1 shows an undetermined location for the ground while the S2 schematic shows a common to the ECU ground location.
Unfortunately an electronic representation of the ground path might not tell you where the actual physical ground is but I wonder why there was a different way the ground was represented in S1 as opposed to S2 schematics.

On S1 and S2 FZ6 the yellow with a blue tracer is the data wire.

I think if you check these areas out and you feel confident they're healthy and the cluster is still defective the issue is probably a defective cluster.

Thank you for a thorough explanation about how it's all connected. I really would like to rule out everything before I dremel open the meter. Seems like I have quite a few things to check.
Another sensor I was thinking about checking is the speed sensor that sits near the transmission. I was reading through this thread: https://www.600riders.com/threads/where-is-the-signal-for-the-speed-sensor-coming-from.59616/

And found this sensor (I do not have speed sensors on either wheels) https://www.600riders.com/attachments/crankcase-jpg.73501/

Could that one be malfunctioning? Maybe it picks up both speed and rpm?

Thanks to everyone reaching out. I really appreciate it.

 

[Motogiro]

I believe it was measured not running. Another thing I noticed was when I measured the voltage on the battery it was jumping all over the place. All the way down to 6-7 volts. I can try doing it with the bike running as well. Although I'm not sure it's possible to enter diag mode when bike is running.

Thank you for a thorough explanation about how it's all connected. I really would like to rule out everything before I dremel open the meter. Seems like I have quite a few things to check.
Another sensor I was thinking about checking is the speed sensor that sits near the transmission. I was reading through this thread: https://www.600riders.com/threads/where-is-the-signal-for-the-speed-sensor-coming-from.59616/

And found this sensor (I do not have speed sensors on either wheels) https://www.600riders.com/attachments/crankcase-jpg.73501/

Could that one be malfunctioning? Maybe it picks up both speed and rpm?

Thanks to everyone reaching out. I really appreciate it.

I doubt you're having a cross talk problem between the speed sensor and rpm sensor.
The one thing that bothers me is that it seems you are reporting an unstable voltage source. You can't really count on other tests if you have voltages that should be stable in the nominal 12 vdc range jumping down to 6 or 7 volts. Fix what ever is causing those low readings first because that could very likely be the source of your instrument problem.