S2 Crank but no start. Low d09

I don't want to think that I have two problems at the same time. Fuel pressure loss after ignition off which was verified with measurement but may be overcome with pump priming combined with a cps near failure. An in-line spark tester constantly on would be more useful, but I could not find one for motorcycles (with the spark plug nipple cap removed - apologies for the bad terminology)

Yes thank you for this, it must be able to plug in threaded stud, like the one I have (which connects to chassis on the other end, so only 3 cylinders work )

The one I posted should fit with the FZ engine, a bit tight in there, but it should work..

As I re-call, it was fairly inexpensive (bought it a long time ago and still works as new.

It doesn't have a spring clip end and attaches as a spark plug wire would- Very positive engagement.

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Second day with replaced, used fuel pump assembly. Today same situation. But i got this on video, is this a healthy spark?

Spark looks strong but VERY inconsistent, especially video #2....

Sparks, then stops, sometimes 4 sparks, then just one....


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CPS measured at 299 ohms.
Spark plug looks like this
I tried again cranking this morning and I ve got no spark at all.

jomor147 said:

CPS measured at 299 ohms.
Spark plug looks like this
I tried again cranking this morning and I ve got no spark at all.

Click to expand...

What error codes do you have? If you're seeing no spark and you're seeing error code 12 you might have a bad CPS. You haven't mentioned 33/34 codes so your coils and ECU switching transistors would be good. The CPS resistance might be okay but that doesn't mean the the unit is sensing magnetic flux properly.
The computer is looking for a sequence of pulses from the sensor. If You examine the metal sensor wheel you will see multiple areas that the ECU looks at as the wheel rotates.

As others have noted, when the battery get weak, the ecu may throw code that are not accurate. If you getting a code and the cranking is fast, you should consider any codes that are registered. When your bike doesn't start, you have a issued to resolve and running the piss out of the battery will not fix the problem.

Yes I understand that, I insist on cranking because in the past most of the times it manage to start after some retries, and switching off and on the igntion seemed to help. I did not exhausted the battery this time, I did not have any errors.

I just noticed that I can activate the coils manually:

d30 : Coil 1 is activated 5 times per second.
d31 : Coil 2 is activated 5 times per second

So if I activate the coil and get, or not get a spark, what each case will help me to focus on?

Nothing was touched since yesterday when I had no spark at all on the last attempt.
I just tried d30. I've got 5 sparks. Removed the tester, plugged the coil cable, cranked and it started perfectly. But this has to be tested while its in a state that it refuses to start.

By the way, is there a cam position sensor? I can't find any reference in the service manual.

Bike untouched since yesterday. Same pattern:

today the sequence was:
1) installed spark tester, switched ignition on (primed ok), no errors on the display, cranked but no start. No spark at all. Switched igntion off.
2) entered d30 mode, i got 5 nice strong sparks. switched ignition off
3) switched on, noticed a 12 error. Cranked, it started just fine (no missing sparks), error disappeared after the engine started.

jomor147 said:

Bike untouched since yesterday. Same pattern:

today the sequence was:
1) installed spark tester, switched ignition on (primed ok), no errors on the display, cranked but no start. No spark at all. Switched igntion off.
2) entered d30 mode, i got 5 nice strong sparks. switched ignition off
3) switched on, noticed a 12 error. Cranked, it started just fine (no missing sparks), error disappeared after the engine started.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I think if you force the spark but the engine isn't rotating the computer is seeing that it produced a spark but it did not see the CPS signal. It throw the error code for no CPS.
When you do crank the engine and it fails to fire, do you see error 12?
Another thought is maybe something has gotten stored in volatile memory and needs to be cleared.
Disconnect the negative lead from the battery and leave it disconnected for 30 minutes to an hour, Reconnect and see if the same issue exists.

I disconnected the battery for 5 hours. Then i entered at d61 and there was a 12 error, which i deleted. Exited diagnostics, cranked, did not start. Switched off, on, retried, got the mechanical lock (discussed earlier) in the first one or two seconds of cranking, immediately released the starter button, retried and got the lock again and on the third attempt it started like a charm. So here is the mechanical lock in the discussion again. Could it be a) something hitting on the ckp sensor ? b) could it be the starter not properly engaging, not turning the crankshaft, thus no signal generated by the ckp sensor and error 12 is finally correct? The mechanic had the starter engaging mechanism checked and found nothing abnormal visually. But the symptom exists, so something is hitting somewhere during cranking.

here is the video i had the mechanic lock captured in the past.
Today it appeard almost immediately, the starter was cold, it appeared twice and then it started ok.

Combining everything together someone could say that the starter sometimes engages but locks on something solid and stops (thus the voltage massive drop), sometimes it does not engage at all so the crankshaft does not turn and no signal is generated towards the ecu and sometimes it engages normaly, nothing gets mechanically blocked and starts ok. Also when the mechanical lock happens, it always starts after some attempts. When it doest happen (usually it does not) the bike either starts fine or starts after many attempts (where one of the following was tried: ignition off-on [ priming or ecu reset ? ], d09 and d30 [priming or ecu reset too])

In the meanwhile, I am not sure if it will help but I am planning to monitor the ckp signal with a portable oscilloscope when the DJ7026 connectors arrive ( I ll make a Y cable to steal the signal without back probing or hurting the existing harness).

Today that I did not want it to start, it started at once..

I suppose the missing pulse every 8 pulses is for the timing sync info the ecu reads?

I also noticed that the first two pulses after the missing pulse are closer together than the rest are (AI says that's normal and documented, but since mechanical lock had appeared I think an inspection from a mechanic is definitely required)

Where are to reading the pulse from? Is it directly from the CPS? Crankshaft Position Sensor.

Yes I made a split cable and connected the crankshaft sensor to ecu and the oscilloscope

It seems like you changed something. The signal has been altered and now it seems the ECU is seeing a proper CPS signal.

Regarding the first two pulses that are closer together it seems normal since according to the service manual illustration there is no missing tooth on the pickup rotor, but the first tooth is closer to the second, creating a gap with the previous one on purpose, so the waveform matches perfectly with the mechanical structure. Still it hasn't been cleared out what happens when the bike is not willing to start.

This time I had a delayed start. I cranked for 4-5 seconds and it refused to start. I had cps signal as seen in the video, strong enough to be detected as far as I can tell but the ecu reported an error 12. Then I cranked again ( just after I stopped recording) and it started normally. I think the last time I had the engine run until reached 75°C while on the previous tests it run for shorter time ( I mention this in case vapor lock could still be the issue).


Does anyone recognise what is heard (an actuator?) at 0:10" ?