Bad r/r?

[FinalImpact]

Ok, so now I'm quite positive that the voltage reg is the issue. I got my hand on a new battery reading 13.54v at rest. I connected it to the bike and started it.

At first, the battery voltage started going up by increments of .01v...I thought all is well. So I revved the engine to 5k rpm but was only reading 13.76v, it did not go any higher. So when I let the bike idle again, the battery voltage started going back down by increments of .01v. So this settles it I suppose.

I also checked the high/low beam by just looking at the two filaments and when I switched the high on and off, the filaments would alternate...so that's good.

I may look into doing the HID conversion over the winter. It's kind of tough though, spend ~$350+ CND for and HID kit of spend $400 on a GSG 1911...decision decision

So at 2500 steady throttle, what does the voltage do?

Also, I would be taking all connections apart and looking at them.
Look here. See the black boot. It has the wires from the stator in it. Unplug and inspect it. On the far left is the RR. Unplug and inspect it too and the wires to the battery. If any of these are compromised, charging will be hurt.

The bad news is the load from full gear + grips may have been more than it could take and damages a component.

PS - running a single headlamp (pirate look) and the 1911, you should be fine! :thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ok, so now I'm quite positive that the voltage reg is the issue. I got my hand on a new battery reading 13.54v at rest. I connected it to the bike and started it.

At first, the battery voltage started going up by increments of .01v...I thought all is well. So I revved the engine to 5k rpm but was only reading 13.76v, it did not go any higher. So when I let the bike idle again, the battery voltage started going back down by increments of .01v. So this settles it I suppose. 13.76 is not bad, could be higher but you are charging..

I also checked the high/low beam by just looking at the two filaments and when I switched the high on and off, the filaments would alternate...so that's good. Good!

I may look into doing the HID conversion over the winter. It's kind of tough though, spend ~$350+ CND for and HID kit of spend $400 on a GSG 1911...decision decision

Something I don't think mentioned is your idle speed. Setting your idle at the recommended 12-1300 RPM's will increase your charging voltage at idle. If you do alot of sitting on traffic, fan kicking on, it does make a difference.

And yes, re the VR, it will take several seconds to level out and catch up.

5,000 RPM's is the max RPM the engine will make the most charging voltage. Going to say 10,000 won't make ANY DIFFERENCE charging wise...


NOTE, if you simply un-plug your SECOND HEADLIGHT, that reduction in watts would be very close to what you'd see with the HID conversion (powerwise).

 

[RedDemon]

I noticed that anything over 2k rpm, the voltmeter reads 13.79v. It's as if it hit a ceiling...I thought the my voltmeter froze for a second.

First thing I did back on Saturday was check the 3 white wire stator connector, and the VR connector and fuses. both connectors looked clean, no corrosion and both have a positive connection (tight). Let's hope that it only damaged the VR, which according to all the diagnosing I did, may be the case.


PS- I like your thinking! haha

 

[FinalImpact]

Something I don't think mentioned is your idle speed. Setting your idle at the recommended 12-1300 RPM's will increase your charging voltage at idle. If you do alot of sitting on traffic, fan kicking on, it does make a difference.

And yes, re the VR, it will take several seconds to level out and catch up.

5,000 RPM's is the max RPM the engine will make the most charging voltage. Going to say 10,000 won't make ANY DIFFERENCE charging wise...


NOTE, if you simply un-plug your SECOND HEADLIGHT, that reduction in watts would be very close to what you'd see with the HID conversion (powerwise).

Actually the stators output voltage continues to climb as the RPM increases above 5K (Set meter to AC and watch it on the white leads). Like I said earlier, the RR is current limited at 25Amps output. So once this peaks, its done.

13.8V on a battery taking a charge is not unreasonable. Lets repeat the repeat of repeat post and unplug a head light. Does it climb?

PS - most say batteries need to sit for 4 hours to stabilize after charging. Most seem to settle in 30" to 60". If its still at 13.5 then it needs to sit longer. Maybe closer to that 4 hr mark OR place a very tiny load on it.

 

[RedDemon]

Actually the stators output voltage continues to climb as the RPM increases above 5K (Set meter to AC and watch it on the white leads). Like I said earlier, the RR is current limited at 25Amps output. So once this peaks, its done.

13.8V on a battery taking a charge is not unreasonable. Lets repeat the repeat of repeat post and unplug a head light. Does it climb?

PS - most say batteries need to sit for 4 hours to stabilize after charging. Most seem to settle in 30" to 60". If its still at 13.5 then it needs to sit longer. Maybe closer to that 4 hr mark OR place a very tiny load on it.

Unplugging the head light did nothing, HOWEVER, i just checked the voltage and it reached 14.07v at 5k rpm....So is this what you're referring to as "stabilizing the battery"? I picked up the battery this morning at 10:30...

I guessed I jumped the gun claiming it was the VR fault.

 

[FinalImpact]

I guessed I jumped the gun claiming it was the VR fault.

I think so.

What we're getting at here is this: The charging system can only deliver so many watts. Watts is Voltage and current.

A NEW battery taking (needing a charge) will take MORE current and show a lower SYSTEM VOLTAGE.

A fully charged battery needs less current and thats when you see the voltage climb.

Like this:
(( 300 WATTS; Voltage vs Current in AMPS )) Assume charging system is healthy!

• 300W / 12v = 25.0A << Battery charge is very low. All energy is converted to AMPS
• 300W / 13v = 23.1A
• 300W / 14v = 21.4A
• 300W / 15v = 20.0A << Battery is fully charged OR battery is sulfated and will not take a charge

See how the current and voltage interact based upon output from the RR and the state of the battery and load of the total system.

So, as long as the cell voltage is above 12.8v, it could be taking all the current the system has to offer to charge a depleted battery.

BUT - we are just guessing on its state of charge based upon its Steady state No LOAD voltage. i.e. What I said about sitting for 30 minutes to 4 hours. Some will take longer. Most will settle in around 13.0V when fully charged.

Make sense?

 

[RedDemon]

It makes complete sense. I've learned SO much about the FZ charging system and will be more conscience of how much power I use with the heated gear.

Thank you FinalImpact, TownsendsFJR1300, and Motogiro for lending me your knowledge. I'll be keeping an eye on the voltage and possibly add a small voltage gauge since I'll be using the heated gear more often.

Cheers :rockon:

 

[FinalImpact]

It makes complete sense. I've learned SO much about the FZ charging system and will be more conscience of how much power I use with the heated gear.

Thank you FinalImpact, TownsendsFJR1300, and Motogiro for lending me your knowledge. I'll be keeping an eye on the voltage and possibly add a small voltage gauge since I'll be using the heated gear more often.

Cheers :rockon:

There is another thread on that somewhere (meter to monitor voltage). I posted some cheap 2 and 3 lead digital volt meters that were like $12 or less. Big easy to read display you wire to the vehicle and leave it there. Sounds like something you may benefit from.

• In short as long as you put in MORE than you take out, you'll be fine. Lets say you ride for an Hour!
• So if 20% of the time you're a little below 12.8V, you'll be OK (say 12.5V).
• At 50% of the time you'll be in trouble in a few days.
• At 75% of the time, you're not gonna start the vehicle that day.

See when you dip into the batteries reserve, its draining and soon it will leave you stranded.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've learned SO much about the FZ charging system and will be more conscience of how much power I use with the heated gear.

Thank you FinalImpact, TownsendsFJR1300, and Motogiro for lending me your knowledge. I'll be keeping an eye on the voltage and possibly add a small voltage gauge since I'll be using the heated gear more often.

BTW, if you have a long, insulated positive probe(for your meter), you can move the plastic, positive, battery terminal cover and probe the positive BATTERY terminal WITHOUT LIFTING THE TANK.

Sneak in between the tank and frame, its very tight, but do-able.

Make sure its insulated, you don't want ANY SPARKING going on right there..

I put the negative probe just to the frame. Saves a whole bunch of time..

 

[FinalImpact]

BTW, if you have a long, insulated positive probe(for your meter), you can move the plastic, positive, battery terminal cover and probe the positive BATTERY terminal WITHOUT LIFTING THE TANK.

Sneak in between the tank and frame, its very tight, but do-able.

Make sure its insulated, you don't want ANY SPARKING going on right there..

I put the negative probe just to the frame. Saves a whole bunch of time..

This is where our stuff differs. Mine shows the same voltage at the RR as the battery posts. But mine also runs closer to the batteries float voltage (14v). I'll have to test it when the fan is on and see if that holds true.
IMO if the connections are good and the wire sized properly for the job the voltage at each should be near the same. Certainly within 0.1v.

Point: quick spot checks can be done at the RR in most cases.... Red and Black go to the battery...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just to be clear, while NOT running, the voltage is the same(power supplied by the battery) at the battery and VR (and Powerlet too).

While running, the VR voltage is slightly higher than at the battery, about 14.2 volts, battery 13.8/9.

I may be wrong but have to attribute this to the failing battery, (it just doesn't seem to accept the FULL charge from the VR). In my video, you can see the the voltage drop to 10 volts while cranking.

NOTE; the battery before this when on its last legs, the voltage dropped to as low as 8 volts CRANKING and still started..

The bike still starts all the time, the dash goes out momentarily (split second) while cranking 80% of the time.- A common clue the battery is failing..

Once the new battery is in, I suspect, it'll show the same as the VR while running/charging.

 

[FinalImpact]

Mine tracks regardless of condition. But as i stated, it "appears" it also runs closer to fully charged which means there is less current flowing and two different points are MORE likely to agree.
Had they been different i would not have suggested spot checking at that location.

As for your old battery if it still takes a charge and it doesn't try to kill itself by discharging itself, id drain it and charge it again. Include the float charge and it go another year perhaps?

EDIT: measure between POS battery post and RED wire in DC Volts. In the ideal world the voltage displayed should be 0.00v. If your connection has resistance, it will show a voltage and this is energy loss which may contribute to your batteries shorter life as it prevents it from charging fully.
You can do the same from the NEG battery post to the BLACK wire or to engine Ground. They should also read Zero volts!

 

[RedDemon]

At the moment, I'm checking voltage through the VR connector. All I have to do is remove the seat.

FinalImpact, In my quick search i found this thread (http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-mods/51988-cheap-ebay-voltmeter-installation.html). I'll definitely be doing this, exactly what I'm looking for.


PS- is there anyway to convert an FZ6-forum thread to a 600riders thread? There are so many threads I want to see that start with FZ6-forum which sends me straight to home.

 

[FinalImpact]

At the moment, I'm checking voltage through the VR connector. All I have to do is remove the seat.

FinalImpact, In my quick search i found this thread (http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-mods/51988-cheap-ebay-voltmeter-installation.html). I'll definitely be doing this, exactly what I'm looking for.


PS- is there anyway to convert an FZ6-forum thread to a 600riders thread? There are so many threads I want to see that start with FZ6-forum which sends me straight to home.

Yes! Quote the post and edit the content.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As for your old battery if it still takes a charge and it doesn't try to kill itself by discharging itself, id drain it and charge it again

If you re-call, we/I did that about 6 months ago and it did seem to help.

Ran it down to 10 volts as I re-call, took about 25 minutes with ALL THE LIGHTS ON(including both headlights).

Actually bought a C-Tek, (fancy & over $100.00) charger, but it wasn't bad enough to go into de-sulfation mode... (Their top of the line charger)..

It bought at least another 6 months, it's just getting worn out with old age... It'll get replaced before I have to push start it...

 

[FinalImpact]

.... measure between POS battery post and RED wire in DC Volts. In the ideal world the voltage displayed should be 0.00v. If your connection has resistance, it will show a voltage and this is energy loss which may contribute to your batteries shorter life as it prevents it from charging fully.
You can do the same from the NEG battery post to the BLACK wire or to engine Ground. They should also read Zero volts!

Scott did you see this? ^^


Red, about those links. There is this too: http://www.600riders.com/forum/site-announcements/53706-please-report-broken-links.html

Post up and Mods can fix them...

 

[Motogiro]

PS- is there anyway to convert an FZ6-forum thread to a 600riders thread? There are so many threads I want to see that start with FZ6-forum which sends me straight to home.

Any broken FZ6-forum links can be sent to me via PM and I'll fix them. Just send me the thread/post where you found it.

 

[RedDemon]

Any broken FZ6-forum links can be sent to me via PM and I'll fix them. Just send me the thread/post where you found it.

Will certainly do

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Scott did you see this? ^^

.

Yes I did, thanks..

Next time I have the tank up I'll check it. The tanks full right and with my bar backs/risers, I have to pull all three bolts and manually pick up a full tank so I'll wait till its much lower with fuel.

Just as a side note, I am very anal about battery terminals and when ever the tank is up, cables/terminals are all cleaned, di-lectric grease smeared about, etc...

(I've been having some left arm/elbow pain recently, just came from the dr, at bad times, I can hardly pick up a cup of coffee much less a full fuel tank).

 

[cliff.pate.5]

Hi all , can anyone help on a charging problem on my 08 fazer s2
Thanks