Chain not centered over rear sprocket...

[Jon_PDX]

Hi,

Not sure if I got the subject correct (could not decide how to write it) but hopefully I got close.

Anyway, I recently picked up a used 2007 FZ6 with 34K miles on the clock. While going over the bike I noticed that the chain is not centered over the rear sprocket. I checked alignment and it looks good but the chain rides to the outside of the sprocket. The chain is centered over the front sprocket.

Hope that made sense ???

So I pulled the rear wheel and the first thing I noticed is the last person to have the wheel off must have also moved the bracket that the rear caliper bolts to because it was on top of the raised area on the swing arm that the bracket would normally slide over. That has now been corrected.

After putting it all back together and realigning the rear wheel the chain is still riding to the outside of the rear sprocket.

The only thing I can think of was maybe the spacers (collars) may be different widths on each side but I forgot to check them before putting the wheel back on. According to the parts fiche the collars (#19) are the same part number which would imply they should be the same width.

It's not off by much. Maybe a 32nd of an inch but has caused some wear on the inside (tire side) of the rear sprocket since the chain is rubbing on that side of the sprocket.

So if possible I'd like to correct it before I put a new chain and sprockets on the bike.

Any thoughts ???

Thanks,

Jon...

 

[FloppyRunner]

For what it's worth, I could never get mine aligned correctly... Annoys the crap out of me.

 

[ltdillard]

My thoughts, having recently replaced the rear tire, is exactly how did you verify alignment of the tire/wheel? If you search you will find information about using the "string method" to align. This is primarily for the 04-06 models, and since yours is an 07 supposedly those alignment marks actually are of some value.

Also, it may be that it ran that way for so long perhaps the sprocket is worn so that is where the chain wants to run, regardless of alignment.

Normally you should be able to have it run centered.

 

[tosh23]

Ive had one hell of a time sorting the fz6 out...
Ive researched the chain slack (45 to 55)mm free play on centre stand, so now thats done I set about alignment...
I have a laser aliment tool,

Profi CAT-SE Laser Chain Alignment Adjustment Tool Motorcycle Sprockets Check | eBay

and ive spent at least an hour checking and rechecking, the tool says the front to rear sprocket is perfectly aligned but the chain still runs to the rhs of the rear sprocket....the noise coming from the front sprocket area is driving me mad

 

[Nelly]

Ive had one hell of a time sorting the fz6 out...
Ive researched the chain slack (45 to 55)mm free play on centre stand, so now thats done I set about alignment...
I have a laser aliment tool,

Profi CAT-SE Laser Chain Alignment Adjustment Tool Motorcycle*Sprockets Check | eBay

and ive spent at least an hour checking and rechecking, the tool says the front to rear sprocket is perfectly aligned but the chain still runs to the rhs of the rear sprocket....the noise coming from the front sprocket area is driving me mad

Some pictures would help. It may be that the chain is just worn and needs replacing?

Neil

 

[skooter65]

Some pictures would help. It may be that the chain is just worn and needs replacing?

Neil

+1^

Perhaps the previous owner installed the front sprocket incorrectly (Outside in versus inside out) which could cause an offset.

 

[tosh23]

I will be posting a picture or two when I can get into the garage...
In reference to the front sprocket, it still has the oem rubber sprocket on it, I know its worn out so I bought another, aftermarket renthal same tooth size..no rubber on walls..Renthal writing on the outside of sprocket
When I installed the new sprocket the noise still remained. There is no play in the shaft, up or down in or out..Anyhoo..I wont steal this thread, I will make a new thread when pics are available ( maybe a vid aswell)
I will keep an eye on this thread, and good luck to the OP...tosh

 

[Nelly]

I will be posting a picture or two when I can get into the garage...
In reference to the front sprocket, it still has the oem rubber sprocket on it, I know its worn out so I bought another, aftermarket renthal same tooth size..no rubber on walls..Renthal writing on the outside of sprocket
When I installed the new sprocket the noise still remained. There is no play in the shaft, up or down in or out..Anyhoo..I wont steal this thread, I will make a new thread when pics are available ( maybe a vid aswell)
I will keep an eye on this thread, and good luck to the OP...tosh

It's relevant so don't worry about creating a new thread. When I swapped out a 15T sprocket for the stock the noise was terrible compared to stock. This may be a sprocket mismatch issue?

Neil

 

[FinalImpact]

Ive had one hell of a time sorting the fz6 out...
Ive researched the chain slack (45 to 55)mm free play on centre stand, so now thats done I set about alignment...
I have a laser aliment tool,

Profi CAT-SE Laser Chain Alignment Adjustment Tool Motorcycle*Sprockets Check | eBay

and ive spent at least an hour checking and rechecking, the tool says the front to rear sprocket is perfectly aligned but the chain still runs to the rhs of the rear sprocket....the noise coming from the front sprocket area is driving me mad

** AS A TEST ONLY ** you could purposely set the alignment of the rear wheel slightly left and slightly right and see if it follows these changes. Otherwise the pattern may be set. However, unless its off a long ways, I don't see this as an issue. Here is a picture of grease pattern. Is that what you used? Sorry about the giant picture. In this case I used that pattern as subjective evidence to check the rear wheel alignment. It did indicate it was NOT tracking proper to the front.

http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-tos/40463-how-string-align-your-rear-wheel.html

 

[Jon_PDX]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I work strange hours.

Thanks for the replies...

Regarding how I verified the alignment. I have one of the MotionPro chain alignment tools that I used and I also checked the alignment marks on the swing arm after using the alignment tool. The marks on my bike appear to be correct (or close enough).

That being said, I had used the tool to check the alignment before adjusting things and it did show the alignment to be slightly off in the direction that would make the chain ride closer to the inside edge (tire side) of the sprocket.

ltdillard,

Interestiing comment about the alignment being off for awhile causing the sprocket to wear in a way that will not allowing the chain to be centered over the sprocket anymore. I had not thought about that but it sounds logical to me.

FinalImpact,

The picture you posted looks the way the chain is riding on my bike. If I push from the outside the chain will move towards the tire, from the inside it's already making contact with the sprocket and will not move. So it's not centered but it's not stressed/binding. Good idea about setting the alignment of the rear wheel slightly left and slightly right to see what the results are. I had thought about doing that but have not had time to get around to it.

Oh, my front sprocket has the rubber on it so for all I know the front and rear sprockets, and chain, may be the original ones.

Here are a couple pictures from both sides of the rear sprocket as it was before I started messing with the alignment. As you can see things were pretty dirty and you can also see how the chain has been making more contact on the tire side than the outer side.

Maybe I'm being to picky (annal) but it bothered me so I had to ask

After thinking about it more, and looking at the condition of the chain even after cleaning it (after taking those pictures) do you all think it's probably time to replace it especially if it's the original chain and sprockets.

The bad part about being the 4th owner is there is very little history on the bike.

All I know is the 1st owner was female, second was a guy that used it for a lot of highway riding, and the 3rd owner, the one I got it from, used it more locally. He was the one that had new tires installed and the valves checked. He also lived at the end of a dirt/gravel road so I still have a lot of cleaning to do to the bike.

Jon...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Obviously, who ever wrenched on it before wasn't the brightest with your findings of the rear brake tab/holder. I'd be surprised if the chain WASN'T OVERTIGHTENED at some point (should be about 2" total at it tightest point)

Something else not mentioned, the rear sprocket hub itself, has a BEARING that supports JUST THE REAR SPROCKET and HUB. There are separate wheel bearings for the rear wheel.

You should NOT BE ABLE TO MOVE THE REAR SPROCKET in and out (side to side) and it should spin true without wobbling. If its got sideways play, it needs replacement

Another member had the chain adjusted WAY TOO TIGHT (a "Yamaha mechanic" at the shop he used) which likely helped prematurly wear out that bearing and cause excessive chain noise. The member changed out the bearing and re-adjusted the chain (not difficult at all)..

Just something to consider/check..

Good luck

 

[tosh23]

Ok, I had an hour in the garage today, i double checked the "chain" alignment with the laser and it was 100% true, not even a tiny tiny bit out...
Yesterday the wife and I went for a little ride, after the ride she stated that the bike didnt like to turn/bank right...Hmm, wheel alignment issue me thinks..
So today I found the ball of string Ive had for months and started the "wheel" alignment..
Holy cow, the wheel alignment was way off, and I mean way off, Which led me to the swingarm markings, Ok I thought, lets play the yamaha game..
I set the rear wheel to the yamaha swingarm marks and again checked with the string. Both wheels were running straight and true, double checked and all was well.....
I then checked the chain alignment with the laser and it was out, double checked..yep its out...
So. Either the sprocket face is out or there is something amiss in the cush drive housing..
Mind you, just reading this back to myself, my laser could be out, I havent checked that...
I will keep ya posted as to what I find after a lengthy investigation.
I will also try and get a video of the noise from the front drive area..
Ride safe and good luck...Tosh

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Read this thread, especially from post 16 and back.. AND post #26

http://www.600riders.com/forum/garage-mechanical-help/48413-cct-safe-ride.html

 

[Jon_PDX]

That was a great thread about the guy with the rattle.

Thanks for posting the link :thumbup:

Once I get my headlight back together (installiing projectors ) I think I'll go back over everything including a check for excessive runout since the bike does have some miles on it.

There's been some great feedback/advise in this thread regarding my initial question and also for the issues Tosh23 had asked about.

I now know a lot more about the final drive on the FZ6 than I did a week ago.

If I find something that was causing the chain to ride off center I'll post the solution.

Thanks,

Jon...

 

[tosh23]

Well I went to my trusted mechanic to day, He was all over it like a rash...His quote was " there is only one thing that make that noise on these bikes "
Its the chain thats fubar" Because of the lenth of the swingarm being 15mm longer than the r6 the chain slack needs to be doubled. People dont realize that and wind on the tension...Its very rare that the output bearings are worn because the shaft has two to three sets of bearings while the axel end has only one set...
The noise comes from just one tight link that bounces the chain on the runners. Ive got 4........
He tightened the chain to 40mm and sure enough the noise reduced because it wasnt bouncing so much on the runner,( the gearbox whine was greater but thats normal)( square gears).
Im going to order new chain/sprocket set and will post back as soon as I can...

I want to thank everyone for their experience and guidance and taking the time to help...ride safe and good luck...Tosh

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

40mm's (1.59")is STILL TOO TIGHT. 1.75" -2.00" is called for. IMHO, follow the directions and loosen it slightly more.
(From post #11: "should be about 2" total at it tightest point")

Picture #1, from my 07 owners manual re the chain tightness:


Picture #2, re the single, rear hub bearing, part #13:
Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2007 FZ6 - FZS6W REAR WHEEL Diagram


Once the picture is open, double click again to enlarge it..


** As noted a new chain and sprockets are due and should solve the issue. PLEASE adjust the chain between 45 and 55mm and keep it lubed**. Mine set at 2"(approx 50mm's), with fresh lube, will literally "Flow" very, very smoothly between the sprockets, nice and quiet...

 

[MrMogensen]

+1^

Perhaps the previous owner installed the front sprocket incorrectly (Outside in versus inside out) which could cause an offset.

I didn't know there was an inside/outside of front sprocket? Or maybe it's because I have installed unoriginal sprockets? Sure seemed like it was identical on both sides?

 

[tosh23]

Before I set off he re-adjusted the chain for 50mm, He said the gears will be clunky on the way home, He's coming to my garage tomorrow to do the chain ( I haven't got a chain rivit tool)...Told ya he's a great mechanic..

On a side note..its half ten at night and the wife has just informed me that its was our wedding anniversary today....Ohh ****..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I didn't know there was an inside/outside of front sprocket? Or maybe it's because I have installed unoriginal sprockets? Sure seemed like it was identical on both sides?

The SPARE, Vortex 15 tooth sprocket I have (not installed), on both sides has an identical slightly raised lip on both sides, identical on both sides.(no difference).


Edit update, the above is for a 530 chain..

 

[skooter65]

I didn't know there was an inside/outside of front sprocket? Or maybe it's because I have installed unoriginal sprockets? Sure seemed like it was identical on both sides?

The SPARE, Vortex 15 tooth sprocket I have (not installed), on both sides has an identical slightly raised lip on both sides, identical on both sides.(no difference).

I said this without knowing what he had installed.

Best bet though; never assume!

Vortex 520 Sprocket: