Exhaust valve clearance too tight

[chemicalsmile]

So I'm at ~30k miles and decided I shouldn't put off the valve check any longer and delved into it using n0other's awesome thread only to find that not one, not two but every one of my exhaust valves are tight:

Cylinder 1: .18mm .18mm
Cylinder 2: .20mm .20mm
Cylinder 3: .23mm .23mm
Cylinder 4: .18mm .18mm

Intake valves were smack in the middle of the range and before someone asks, I cranked and checked 3 different times to confirm. Makes sense as I've noticed a gradual loss of power over the last year or so. Since there's not an adjustment howto I'll try and take some pics of the process. Anyone had to adjust them who has some pointers? I don't plan on buying the shim kit since it seems like a waste, I'll just measure the shims and buy or swap for new ones. I'm hoping it's like my old bike where (with the tensioner out) you can just zip tie the chain to the cams and pop it out and over to access the buckets. Timing doesn't seem like much of a pain on here but I'd rather not worry about it.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So I'm at ~30k miles and decided I shouldn't put off the valve check any longer and delved into it using n0other's awesome thread only to find that not one, not two but every one of my exhaust valves are very tight:

Cylinder 1: .15mm .15mm
Cylinder 2: .20mm .20mm
Cylinder 3: .18mm .18mm
Cylinder 4: .15mm .15mm

Intake valves were smack in the middle of the range and before someone asks, I cranked and checked 3 different times to confirm. Makes sense as I've noticed a gradual loss of power over the last year or so. Since there's not an adjustment howto I'll try and take some pics of the process. Anyone had to adjust them who has some pointers? I don't plan on buying the shim kit since it seems like a waste, I'll just measure the shims and buy or swap for new ones. I'm hoping it's like my old bike where (with the tensioner out) you can just zip tie the chain to the cams and pop it out and over to access the buckets. Timing doesn't seem like much of a pain on here but I'd rather not worry about it.

Sounds like you pretty much got it down.

I would, upon completion, just double check all the timing marks lining up after a rotation or two (by hand, with the tensioner in) coming to TDC on #1 after the compression cycle..

Obviously, make sure you turn the engine at the crankshaft, (Clockwise or forward).

Good luck, looking forward to the pictures!

 

[FinalImpact]

As a reminder there is a SERIOUS TYPO in the 2007 OEM FSM USA CR 2006, Pg 90 of 394, section 3-5.
It repeats in 3-6 and possibly other places. FOLLOWING THIS MAY DAMAGE YOUR CCT, CHAIN, AND GUIDES.


NOTE: TURN THE CRANKSHAFT CLOCKWISE ONLY!!! If you go past a mark, continue turning CLOCKWISE!!! Chains can not be PUSHED, therefor critical components will be abused and you risk damage to the chain, guides and CCT if turned counter-clockwise.


QUOTE from FSM WITH ERROR in RED:
d. To measure the valve clearances of the other cylinders, starting with cylinder #1 at TDC, turn the crankshaft counterclockwise as specified in the following table.
blah blah blah :spank::spank::spank::spank::spank: :Flip:

CORRECTED in BLUE:
d. To measure the valve clearances of the other cylinders, starting with cylinder #1 at TDC, turn the crankshaft clockwise as specified in the following table.

Can someone with an earlier FSM confirm it is correct in their publication?

TAGS: LIT-11616-20-60, 4S8-28197-10, FZS6W, FZS6WC, turn crankshaft,

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

My 07-09 Yamaha manual also shows it incorrectly turning the crank, CC on page 3-6 (PDF manual).

Just another "small boo" like the rear sprocket bolt torque settings...:spank:

 

[fastar1]

I've never heard of that. How does it damage the valvetrain to turn the engine counterclockwise by hand?

 

[FinalImpact]

I've never heard of that. How does it damage the valvetrain to turn the engine counterclockwise by hand?

With spark plug out, most would likely be OK and no damage would result. With it building compression (yes, it does this even being rotated backwards), the chain is like a string. If pulled on, it forms a straight line between the points of contact. On the slack side of the chain we have our Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) and chain guides. By being turned backwards it would apply substantially more pressure on these components than when turned the correct direction. The CCT is supposed to be screwed in to be compressed therefor it may not like the action of being depressed and cause it to fail. It seems to have a high failure rate anyhow so this may push some over the edge inducing failure.

The chain guide; when new and not subjected to sustained heat and repeated heat cycles, they are pliable and bend. But as age they get hard crack on their own sometimes. Now with the application of extreme tension in at odd angles, it can induce fractures and allow parts of the guide to fall off.

It happens in cages often. Read those manuals an they will say NOT to turn it backwards to direction of NORMAL rotation.

 

[fastar1]

Ah I guess I can see how that might happen. Thanks.

 

[chemicalsmile]

Thanks all - I did turn it only clockwise as that's the normal rotation and all of the walkthroughs and videos and earlier R6 stuff I found indicated that direction.

Corrected my clearances above since I typed them in wrong earlier...

I was able to work on it a bit more tonight and found that you can actually zip tie the chain to the cam sprockets, remove the tensioner, pop off the cap and move the cam over enough to access the buckets. You have to slacken the chain on the exhaust side a hair but you have more than enough room afterwards. Can't see any reason it wouldn't work on the intake side as well.

Clearance and shim info (via # printed on shims):
........Clearance..Shim....New Shim...New Clearance?
C1V1-0.18.........1.75....1.65...........0.28
C1V2 0.18.........1.78....1.70...........0.26
C2V1 0.20.........1.78....1.70...........0.28
C2V2 0.20.........1.80....1.70...........0.30*
C3V1 0.23.........1.78....1.75...........0.26
C3V2 0.23.........1.79....1.75...........0.27
C4V1 0.18.........1.79....1.70...........0.27
C4V2 0.18.........1.78....1.70...........0.26

*Due to the .05mm increments of replacement shims I'm stuck with either .30 or .25 here...figured loose is safer and I believe clearances will tighten over time due to valve seat wear. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks

 

[FinalImpact]

Although the valve and seats are hardened they do wear after being pounded on repeatedly. So yes, the valve will move towards the cam closing the gap. Some more so than others. If you have the means to measure the base circle of the cam, its good piece of info to have for reference later.

Because the springs are pushing the cam away from the head, the cam bearings in the head nearer the valve cover wear a small amount to. Sometimes it offsets each other.

How long have you had it, (miles by you) and what oil you run as well as OCI?

 

[Marthy]

Although the valve and seats are hardened they do wear after being pounded on repeatedly. So yes, the valve will move towards the cam closing the gap. Some more so than others. If you have the means to measure the base circle of the cam, its good piece of info to have for reference later.

Because the springs are pushing the cam away from the head, the cam bearings in the head nearer the valve cover wear a small amount to. Sometimes it offsets each other.

How long have you had it, (miles by you) and what oil you run as well as OCI?

My boss own a Ducati. I had to adjust the valves once so I took the plunge and gave it a shot. After some Googling and a few good Youtube video I was good to go! LOL

First thing they said is to drive your bike like you stole it right before doing the valves. Carbon build up can cheat the valve clearance a bit... not sure how good it apply to our ride but it is to take in consideration.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You make a very good point!

Somewhat related, we pulled the two heads off my neighbors yamaha 200 HP, V6, TWO STROKE, outboard engine yesterday.

He was having some overheating problems and we had to get to the water passages to clean out salt build up (which there was a BUNCH). He drives it like an old lady and rarely flushes the engine out (salt water usage) with fresh water.

With the heads off, there was a fine layer (hard) of carbon atop the pistons BUT are very clean over all (except for the water passages).

Much cleaner than I would have expected, for a oil injected two stroke, driven rarely above 4,000 RPM's and no fuel additives or cleaners!!

 

[FinalImpact]

. . . .
First thing they said is to drive your bike like you stole it right before doing the valves. Carbon build up can cheat the valve clearance a bit... not sure how good it apply to our ride but it is to take in consideration.

Mine should be good then - the ENTIRE RPM range is used on every outing! :thumbup:

I can hear I have a few loose ones tapping. Perhaps this winter tighten it up a tad.

 

[FinalImpact]

Thanks all - I did turn it only clockwise as that's the normal rotation and all of the walkthroughs and videos and earlier R6 stuff I found indicated that direction.

Corrected my clearances above since I typed them in wrong earlier...

I was able to work on it a bit more tonight and found that you can actually zip tie the chain to the cam sprockets, remove the tensioner, pop off the cap and move the cam over enough to access the buckets. You have to slacken the chain on the exhaust side a hair but you have more than enough room afterwards. Can't see any reason it wouldn't work on the intake side as well.

Clearance and shim info (via # printed on shims):
........Clearance..Shim....New Shim...New Clearance?
C1V1-0.18.........1.75....1.65...........0.28
C1V2 0.18.........1.78....1.70...........0.26
C2V1 0.20.........1.78....1.70...........0.28
C2V2 0.20.........1.80....1.70...........0.30*
C3V1 0.23.........1.78....1.75...........0.26
C3V2 0.23.........1.79....1.75...........0.27
C4V1 0.18.........1.79....1.70...........0.27
C4V2 0.18.........1.78....1.70...........0.26

*Due to the .05mm increments of replacement shims I'm stuck with either .30 or .25 here...figured loose is safer and I believe clearances will tighten over time due to valve seat wear. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks

If you have a spare button laying about; could you measure the outside diameter of it?

Item #12 here... http://joiseyboyz.com/moto/fz607/valve.gif
View attachment 49454 View attachment 49455

Thread tag added:
JJD952 - Engine Lash

 

[chemicalsmile]

I've got around 31k miles on it. I've used Shell Rotella Synth exclusively since break-in, used the Shell dino stuff during. Been to track school but no track time other than that. All of our local roads are speed sweepers and I lead a lot of rides so it certainly doesn't get babied although I try to keep the reps under 12k.

The shims are 7.48mm OD - I didn't measure but that's what dealers and Hot Cams spec for ours and the R6. The only dealers that had my sizes in stock wanted $7-$10 per shim (won't swap) so I ordered one of Hot Cams' refill packs (HCSHIM04) - $30 and has 1.50-1.75mm in .05mm increments with 5 shims in each size.

 

[n0other]

This is probably too late but I've just stumbled on the valve adjustment howto, it's for the FJR, but the interesting part is the same for all inline 4 DOHCs

FJR1300 Valve Adjustment

 

[chemicalsmile]

Well I received the shims today and learned a few lessons tonight:

1) Don't move the crank without holding in the tensioner guard to take up the slack....I ended up skipping a tooth at the crank and had to redo it after putting the cam and tensioner back in....luckily you can wind in the tensioner and move the exhaust side guard up a bit and move the chain at the bottom of the crank.
2) If you're going to use the Harbor Freight feeler guages, check that the retaining nut and washer are on there good....apparently mine weren't and they fell into the engine....luckily I was able to recover them with the magnet on a stick that I got to remove the buckets - the washer actually fell into the spark plug hole but luckily stuck on the lip before falling into the cylinder ..

After that I figured I was home free but I ended up rage quitting after 30 minutes of trying to get the valve cover back on...anyone have any tips on this? I keep getting hung up on the sprocket side

 

[FinalImpact]

Close call! Glad you avoided disaster.... Thank god for good magnets! :thumbup:

Almost dropped a shim into my 1MZ-FE Yot engine. Saved by pure luck as it hung up before the big open hole to pan... Engine is set up allot like our FZ, however the shim is on top the bucket instead of under it.

 

[fastar1]

...
After that I figured I was home free but I ended up rage quitting after 30 minutes of trying to get the valve cover back on...anyone have any tips on this? I keep getting hung up on the sprocket side

I found the valve cover went on real easy facing backwards. Turning it around made it tough. So I guess the good news is, if you're struggling with it you must be doing it right!!!

 

[chemicalsmile]

Close call! Glad you avoided disaster.... Thank god for good magnets! :thumbup:

Almost dropped a shim into my 1MZ-FE Yot engine. Saved by pure luck as it hung up before the big open hole to pan... Engine is set up allot like our FZ, however the shim is on top the bucket instead of under it.

My last bike was shim over bucket - the shims were much easier to work with due to the size (I was so paranoid that I'd drop and lose one of the little fz6 shims) but they required way more frequent checks. Looking forward to not doing this again for another 26k miles that's for sure.

I found the valve cover went on real easy facing backwards. Turning it around made it tough. So I guess the good news is, if you're struggling with it you must be doing it right!!!

Well I guess I've got that going for me. I'll have to inbibe a little tonight before taking another crack at it...man was that frustrating - so close, yet so far away haha.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

My last bike was shim over bucket - the shims were much easier to work with due to the size (I was so paranoid that I'd drop and lose one of the little fz6 shims) but they required way more frequent checks. Looking forward to not doing this again for another 26k miles that's for sure.



Well I guess I've got that going for me. I'll have to inbibe a little tonight before taking another crack at it...man was that frustrating - so close, yet so far away haha.

You'll get it! m It came out, it'll go back in, be patient and maybe somewhat creative!

Another valve check thread also mentioned its a PIA to re-install....