HELP! Clear coat not clear??

[hk_fz6_05]

Hey guys I need some serious help. I'm respraying a couple of bits on my silver bike and have hit a very serious snag. I'm using many thin coats of primer, colour and now clear coat (although admittedly not sanding between coats).

After my second light coat of clear the pictures happened.....somewho instead of a nice even clear coat I have matt splotches everywhere. I didn't notice any spluttering or uneveness when spraying. So what's wrong and more importantly how do I fix it?

I'm about ready to cry or throw things since this is day four or five and I really really don't want to have to redo everything. Especially since I would prbly have to get new special ordered from germany yammy silver......

two possible suspects are temperature and age: my clear coat is from last year though I never thought that would matter and the outside temp is maybe 0-5 degrees C (and I'm in an uninsulated garage)


help me please - I know one of you geniuses has the answer!

 

[FinalImpact]

What's the humidity / due point there?

It could be trapped moisture. Heat it with a heat lamp from 2 feet away slowing bringing the temperature up and holding it there for hours and let it flash off. How long did you wait between primer and top coat? There could be trapped solvent in the primer still coming out. That *USUALLY* makes blisters/pimples vs blotching. However, clear over base, could do the same thing.

Lastly - you can spray enamel over lacquer but YOU CAN NOT SPRAY LACQUER OVER FRESH ENAMEL! Read the product labels and see what the product is made of. READ THIS.....

Paying more attention to post # 5! http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/42859-metalic-black-paint-add-ons.html

 

[Motogiro]

Well I may not be a Geeneeus but I think I might have a clue on this.

I used to shoot a lot of acrylic lacquer paint in a body shop. We would have humid days where moisture would get trapped in the paint and cause blochiness. This paint was all shot from guns and so we could add retarder. This retarder agent added to the paint would slow the drying process allowing the moisture time to escape along with the thinner agent used as paint vehicle. Unfortunately if this is your problem and you're rattle canning it you will have to wait for a dry day or create a drier environment to do your refinishing.

 

[skooter65]

Sorry to say but I don't think you are going to be able to save that finish. To me, it looks like the base-coat was incompatible with the clear-coat. Where both finishes of the same type (i.e. enamel-enamel, lacquer-lacquer, etc...)?

A quick Blurb from Dupli-Color for reference:

Can Enamels be used over lacquers?
Yes. Dupli-Color® enamels can be sprayed over lacquer substrates, or any other painted surface that has been sanded smooth and clean of dirt, grease, and dust.

Can Lacquers be used over enamels?
Lacquers have a tendency to lift enamel surfaces. Lacquers will work over most fully cured enamels that have good film integrity. Test carefully in an inconspicuous area before proceeding.​

 

[hk_fz6_05]

Hey guys that was quick thanks
both colour and clear are from yammy so they should damn well be compatible and I used them last year without issue
the humidity isn't bad at all but I guess at these temps it could be a little is enough?
I'll have a look at post number five thanks....
there was reasonable time between coats (ie hours between colour and primer and a day between colour and clear coat.....maybe clear coats no 1 and 2 were too close together?)

anyway I guess I'll see what I can do about sanding it down again tomorrow and go over it again

 

[FinalImpact]

Hey guys that was quick thanks
both colour and clear are from yammy so they should damn well be compatible and I used them last year without issue
the humidity isn't bad at all but I guess at these temps it could be a little is enough?
I'll have a look at post number five thanks....
there was reasonable time between coats (ie hours between colour and primer and a day between colour and clear coat.....maybe clear coats no 1 and 2 were too close together?)

anyway I guess I'll see what I can do about sanding it down again tomorrow and go over it again

I wouldn't sand it yet. Heat and see what happens. I seen cured paint fog from being covered w/moisture trapped. it leaches right through the paints surface.

Also, look at the primer. Most often OTS (Off the Shelf) rattle can primer is lacquer.

 

[hk_fz6_05]

oh and maybe the temps being what they are I should have allowed a lot longer for drying?

anyway thanks for all the replies - motogiro you are an understated genius

unfortunately the oven and the garage are way waaaay too far apart for me to cure stuff in oven but I might just try the heat lamp thing.

 

[hk_fz6_05]

I wouldn't sand it yet. Heat and see what happens. I seen cured paint fog from being covered w/moisture trapped. it leaches right through the paints surface.

Also, look at the primer. Most often OTS (Off the Shelf) rattle can primer is lacquer.

ok thanks I'll definitely try that first! Could it be that I should just levave it to dry out for a week even? :thumbup:

 

[hk_fz6_05]

argh this is really cramping my style - I am doing three different things at the moment and getting the same basic error with all three.
1. respraying a damaged panel on my car (all original brand name colors and clear)
2. repsraying the parts in the post above
3. respraying a scuffed end of a lever gloss black (all non-original but corresponding rattle cans)

and on all of them (which means three different colours and three different clears) I am getting the same damn thing. Pretty sure it's the ambient temp - today it's clear and sunny and 7C (45F) so not terribly humid. I effin hate this dumb ass country where you can't do anything but sit indoors and stare at the wall for 8months of the flippin year.

 

[FinalImpact]

I did several things in the dead of winter with temps down low.

A heat lamp or an oven and let the product flash off (cure) plenty between coats. Did you read that link I provided?

Lastly - confirm what products are being sprayed as you can only mix going one direction. Read about Lacquer vs Enamel, when and where they can be mixed.

 

[hk_fz6_05]

hey again
yeah I read it. thing is unfortunately I don't have electricity anywhere close to the garage (long story let me tell you) so no heat lamp without moving the bike (or removing the crank case cover which is a major hassle).

I removed one of the smaller items (the lever) and got it inside and heated up - that seemed to help. As did time lots and lots of time with the car which is now done.

On the label of the yammy clear coat it says in German (I only noticed this yesterday) "Any milkiness will disappear through drying". So I trust that with time and or moving my bike to a heat gun (you wouldn't think I lived in a civilized area) the milkiness on the crank case cover will disappear.

and I checked all the product labels and it's all lacquers thankfully.

so I guess as bit of validation for all yall and the moisture theory and sort of a happy ending. thanks so much!

oh yeah PS: glad to hear that work is possible with low temps! thought I might just be mad.

 

[hk_fz6_05]

just one follow up> I went and did the heat gun thing over the past two days (had to get a 40m extension cord first!) and I was surprised to see that it worked - the clear coat over the silver is now truly clear. It took maybe 8 or 9 hours on the crank case cover with a heat gun on 1000W setting at about 1 foot distance. thanks again!

 

[FinalImpact]

just one follow up> I went and did the heat gun thing over the past two days (had to get a 40m extension cord first!) and I was surprised to see that it worked - the clear coat over the silver is now truly clear. It took maybe 8 or 9 hours on the crank case cover with a heat gun on 1000W setting at about 1 foot distance. thanks again!

Keep in mind as the engine comes up to temp its going to give it some heat too. 150 ~ 190F should help things...

Glad its coming around! Good job being patient! :thumbup:

 

[hk_fz6_05]

Hey just thought I'd add a little follow up. I did the two last coats of clear yesterday and experimented with heating up the parts with the heatgun before spraying and it worked a treat! I just gave it a couple of minutes while rattling the can and made sure it was kinda lukewarm before spraying (and clean and so on of course too) and no splotches or milkiness!
Excellent - I suppose it just burns all the excess water off (think invisible dew). But really saved on the pita. Just thought it might come in handy for someone.