So the Treasury Secretary can set your salary and retroactively change your employment contract?

[tom5796]

Enjoy... Especially the end when Barney cuts her off. I'm ashamed that he is my Representative (not my vote, though).

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9DgMG-_6Ls&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Oscar54]

Are any of you guys accountants?

Yes, so what's your point?

 

[Oscar54]

Right... but that only applies if they bought stock in the company. They did not, therefore they have no say.

The company is bankrupt, and the Gov't is keeping from going to bankruptcy court because they are not a going concern but their closing their doors would have worse consequences.

In bankruptcy the stockholders have no say over executive compensation the judge and/or receiver does.

But hey I don't understand complex issues!

 

[PowellB]

No we cant say F#$K contracts. That wont work.

NO ONE CAN INVEST in a market where contracts can be changed at will,

I agree with you. This isn't "at will" -it's bankruptcy. Aren't contracts changed in bankruptcy dealings all the time?

Basically, this bill is just giving the company bankruptcy protection on the Treasury's terms instead of the court, right? Is the Treasury any better/worse than court? I don't really know. I'd trust that they'd protect my investment in a way that still remains fair to the creditors.

I'd support this measure even if just to deter bailout deals from being made from this point on. So if Corporation X gets in hot water 6 months from now, it won't be able to go to the taxpayers for a free lunch just to avoid the hassle and impact of bankruptcy. Any future bailout would (hopefully) come with a big dose of accountability and consequence.

I do have to say that I'm still not exactly sure how far that "retroactivity" reaches... I took it as 'only as far as the gov loans' went, but maybe I'm wrong. It would seem fair that companies already within the grasp of this measure could appeal in some way. Given the strings newly attached, perhaps some would've stuck with Chapter 11 instead of any bailouts. I don't even know if that was an option... consequences of global econ meltdown goes way above my daily capacity for thought

Nothing like a ride on the FZ to clear the mind after racking your brian on problems like this, eh?

 

[Oscar54]

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




ABSOLUTELY ZERO SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I am getting to the point I say keep it up idiots. There is a huge under current of rage building in this country.


Contracts are contracts. Either the company files for bancruptcy, and all contracts are renegoitated in the light of court OR they stay unchanged except for agreement of both parties then the contract is rewritten.

Anything else is Chavez in Venezula, Mussoli in Italy, Mugabee, my God guys this is the most basic stuff ever. This can not been done and have any law in the land be valid. They can not change the rules in the middle of the game. You just cant do that.

ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It's funny how you have such confidence in our Socialist Court system (ie. paid for by you and me, proxy the goverment) and let one judge decide the best way to reorganize or close a company, but feakout when you have a group of financial professional who have experience working in the financial markets and corporation make decisions on the same type of issues.

I don't think that the magnitude of this crisis is well suited for normal bankruptcy proceedings or that government non-intervention is the best course of action.

Some can cling to the belief the magic of an unfettered free market will save us from the crisis if we just believe in its magic. Unfortunately, it was that belief that created this crisis in the first place.

 

[Cuba]

The company is bankrupt, and the Gov't is keeping from going to bankruptcy court because they are not a going concern but their closing their doors would have worse consequences.

In bankruptcy the stockholders have no say over executive compensation the judge and/or receiver does.

But hey I don't understand complex issues!

Wrong again, except for the part about you not understanding complex issues. These companies are not bankrupt. Several of them should be, but they are not because they were given my money to stay afloat. In many cases this money was forced on them to mask the "bad" banks, and they had no choice but to accept it. They are not, were not, and will not go bankrupt. Wrightme is correct, you cannot conduct business in a society where contracts are meaningless, which is what is happening here. Perhaps rather than writing a blank check to these companies without reading, understanding, or setting any guidlines there should have been a plan upfront to deal with these pesky little details like what the money should be spent on? Our government has done something collasally stupid and now is shredding not only the constitution but also the basic fabric of our society (that contracts will be upheald) in order to look like they are sticking up for the little guy. Imagine you worked hard and got a promotion at the bank you work for, you get married, buy a house, and have kids. Now Timothy Geithner decides you are being paid to much and slashes your salary at the same time Obama decides you aren't paying enough for fuel, electricity, and home heating? You won't need to imagine for too long because that is the plan in place right now. But hey, you probably get your $13/week for another few months so that's good. More money in your pocket right?

 

[Oscar54]

The reason I asked was to see if anyone was an accountant for a fortune 500 company and could explain how and why these bonuses etc were set. The answer is no.

For the rest of it...clog up your congressman's email accounts with these types of issues. If they respond favorably then keep them, they do not vote for someone else.

PS: Texas has jobs and can still leave the union

Yah. Like that's going to happen! That right in your state constitution and a buck won't buy you a cup of coffee anymore.

 

[Hellgate]

Which leads us to the root of the problem...
Publicly owned companies are run by the proxy of dollar votes and confidence in the value of a stock that may not neccessarily be tied to the quality of the company's performance...

That said, corporations are no longer led by individuals interested in the longevity of the corporation, however by the perceived value intrinsic to that corporation.

If the corporation is run without sustainability in mind it will fail... If this is widespread... and we do live in a capitalist society then the country fails...

The beauty of the American system is that we are not democracy, we are not socialist, we are a hybrid, that is able to shift in order to sustain the life of the union...

Do I know if any of this right?? NO, but its trying something that hasn't been done before... We allowed a president to tinker with pre-emptive war and now we will have to see how this all plays out...

As for the buying stock or not... I think in this case the govn't has the right to meddle as there would never be any one person silly enough to just throw in a bunch of money w/o a vote...

You are correct, we are NOT a democracy, we are not socialistic, and we are NOT a hybrid (not sure what that is), we ARE a republic. A republic is based on the rule of law.

 

[Oscar54]

Man this is really getting Schizophrenic. First the Administration is going communist now its also going fascist?

 

[Cuba]

Enjoy... Especially the end when Barney cuts her off. I'm ashamed that he is my Representative (not my vote, though).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9DgMG-_6Ls&feature=related

I watched that happen live, unbelievable.

 

[wolfc70]

Enjoy... Especially the end when Barney cuts her off. I'm ashamed that he is my Representative (not my vote, though).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9DgMG-_6Ls&feature=related

Wow! Barney frank is a real piece of work!!! Someone should :ban: him from opening his mouth.

 

[Oscar54]

...what he said. I really believed for a long time that, "greed was good". Now, I see that it is the bulk of the problem. Grossly overpaid CEO's and ridiculous union contracts have earned companies this mess. If this isn't corrected, nothing will change, and, our present system that allows the wolves to watch the hen house will assure it.

I agree with the greed part but not the union part. Unions account for only 7% of the work force and had nothing to do with Wall Streets fiasco.

 

[Cuba]

Man this is really getting Schizophrenic. First the Administration is going communist now its also going fascist?

The funny thing is that you have no intelligent understanding either of these concepts. The press has incorrectly dubbed Obama a socialist, not a communist. He is in fact a NATIONAL socialist, which is very different. Crack a book :thumbup:

 

[PowellB]

I know how the AIG bonuses were set. The 15 employees that got the money were under a contractual agreement for a salary of $1 per year. The bonuses were supposed to be the final end of the contracts. Now these 15 people were not the ones that put AIG in this mess. They were brought in to try and fix the situation. And what happens? They were basically lynched.

It's for this reason why I'm inclined to support the current measure. It's intended that those responsible are held accountable, and the bonuses that get paid go to those that have performed adequately.

 

[Hellgate]

Enjoy... Especially the end when Barney cuts her off. I'm ashamed that he is my Representative (not my vote, though).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9DgMG-_6Ls&feature=related

Good call. "One World Currency"??? That is the dumbest damn thing I've ever heard. If that was to happen the USD would cut in half, at least. The reason China, Russia and Crapslopistan want this is because their currency isn't worth squat and would increase in value. A perfect example of this is the Euro. As more poorer nations joint the value/purchasing power is weakened. When the German Mark was converted to Euros the Germans got 1 Euro for every two Marks, yet the cost in the store remained the same, what was 20 Marks was now 20 Euros. The Germans were screaming mad. Also a the poorer economies tanked, Spain, Greece, etc. the value of the Euro dropped. One World Currency is not what we need. This is insane.

 

[Oscar54]

The funny thing is that you have no intelligent understanding either of these concepts. The press has incorrectly dubbed Obama a socialist, not a communist. He is in fact a NATIONAL socialist, which is very different. Crack a book :thumbup:

I enjoy irritating you!:rof:

 

[Hellgate]

Enjoy... Especially the end when Barney cuts her off. I'm ashamed that he is my Representative (not my vote, though).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9DgMG-_6Ls&feature=related

Keep in mind they do have to stick to firm time hacks otherwise the people at the end don't get a chance to ask questions. Fair is fair, as much as I don't care for Franks.

 

[Cuba]

I enjoy irritating you!:rof:

I'm not irritated, but must I admit that I do enjoy pointing out the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. I hope that one day you will make an intelligent statement, you will have actually researched and understood what you are claiming, and will have an honest opinion that will contribute to a discussion. That hasn't happened yet, but some day. Hang in there champ! :thumbup:

 

[tom5796]

Keep in mind they do have to stick to firm time hacks otherwise the people at the end don't get a chance to ask questions. Fair is fair, as much as I don't care for Franks.

Understood, but it is a very good example of the difference between the private and public sectors. There is no meeting that I go to where a VERY good question is cut off and not answered because of some time limit. If the overall meeting needs to go longer to get everybody in on the questions then everyone stays longer. This was purely because Barney Welfare didn't want the question answered.

 

[wrightme43]

Hey Lone you need to change the party affilation on this one. The dems have house, senate, president right now.