Thugs and Hooligans give us all a bad rap

[Neal]

Sounds like Gloria Alread has her work cut out for her....

Not at all.

None of that is going to be admissible in court because it is all irrelevant.

Going to be the same as if she was representing you or I.

 

[chroline]

Just learned that one of the biker didn't help the SUV driver because he was an undercover narcotics officer and didn't want to blow his cover. This made absolutely no sense. This rogue cop will be fired!

 

[Ssky0078]

I don't care about your red-herrings.

Meanwhile, getting back to the DMV book that you don't know as well as you think you do. I am not even going to look at it but I just going to guess it says something like, You move to over when it is safe to do so. The rider was in the middle lane and the right lane was blocked off, of course you wouldn't even consider that because you are dead set on your conclusion without considering the facts.

Projection again. Just to clarify A red-herring is is the use of something false to introduce into an argument to distract from the original topic/issue. Which much of the BS you've been posting appealing to everyone's pity for the riders from this group ride. This is why you have been accused of trolling.

Now let's review the information that is known this far

1. An accident occurred.
2. Cristopher Cruz has already been arraigned on criminal charges of unlawful imprisonment and reckless driving (which can be either traffic or criminal) for causing an accident then with the members of his group encircled Mr. Lien's vehicle and allegedly started threatening, vandalizing, and brandishing weapons at Mr. Lien. At which point Mr. Lien is afforded the right to use deadly force to protect himself and his family. Mr. Lien flees from the alleged attackers including Mr. Cruz who is again already facing criminal charges in the matter. During his escape Mr. Lien's SUV struck and ran over Mr. Miese causing severe injury. Because Mr. Miese is in the same group as Mr. Cruz that allegedly falsely imprisoned Mr. Lien it is possible that he too could be held liable in 'guilt by association' for the alleged crimes of Mr. Cruz. The argument to include Mr. Miese as an accomplice in the perpetration of the alleged crime by Mr. Cruz is not a difficult one to consider since he was in front of the vehicle, blocking Mr. Liens escape.
3. Mr. Lien was later assaulted by at least 2 individuals who have yet to be identified.
4. We later find out that Mr. Miese is operating a vehicle without a valid license as well as having an extensive criminal background.

Now for how I have actually helped down motorcyclist. I personally directed a rider that stopped just past the accident to handle traffic from his direction and I used a turnout to make a u-turn and I immediately went to before the accident location to handle the traffic heading in the direction we came from. First rule secure the scene for the safety of the first responders. Second, I called another rider over to relieve me so that I could help provide medical assistance along with a retired EMT and paramedic in our group to the injured motorcyclist. Somehow magically the couple of vehicles we had stopped did not feel threatened by us an even offered assistance.

 

[Ssky0078]

Just learned that one of the biker didn't help the SUV driver because he was an undercover narcotics officer and didn't want to blow his cover. This made absolutely no sense. This rogue cop will be fired!

This guy absolutely has to testify. He needs to round up as many of these punk ass kids and put them away

 

[Neal]

Projection again. Just to clarify A red-herring is is the use of something false to introduce into an argument to distract from the original topic/issue. Which much of the BS you've been posting appealing to everyone's pity for the riders from this group ride. This is why you have been accused of trolling.

Now let's review the information that is known this far

1. An accident occurred.
2. Cristopher Cruz has already been arraigned on criminal charges of unlawful imprisonment and reckless driving (which can be either traffic or criminal) for causing an accident then with the members of his group encircled Mr. Lien's vehicle and allegedly started threatening, vandalizing, and brandishing weapons at Mr. Lien. At which point Mr. Lien is afforded the right to use deadly force to protect himself and his family. Mr. Lien flees from the alleged attackers including Mr. Cruz who is again already facing criminal charges in the matter. During his escape Mr. Lien's SUV struck and ran over Mr. Miese causing severe injury. Because Mr. Miese is in the same group as Mr. Cruz that allegedly falsely imprisoned Mr. Lien it is possible that he too could be held liable in 'guilt by association' for the alleged crimes of Mr. Cruz. The argument to include Mr. Miese as an accomplice in the perpetration of the alleged crime by Mr. Cruz is not a difficult one to consider since he was in front of the vehicle, blocking Mr. Liens escape.
3. Mr. Lien was later assaulted by at least 2 individuals who have yet to be identified.
4. We later find out that Mr. Miese is operating a vehicle without a valid license as well as having an extensive criminal background.

Now for how I have actually helped down motorcyclist. I personally directed a rider that stopped just past the accident to handle traffic from his direction and I used a turnout to make a u-turn and I immediately went to before the accident location to handle the traffic heading in the direction we came from. First rule secure the scene for the safety of the first responders. Second, I called another rider over to relieve me so that I could help provide medical assistance along with a retired EMT and paramedic in our group to the injured motorcyclist. Somehow magically the couple of vehicles we had stopped did not feel threatened by us an even offered assistance.

So what does any of that have to do with our discussion of the DMV handbook we were clarifying?

Your entire post has no value.

 

[Ssky0078]

So what does any of that have to do with our discussion of the DMV handbook we were clarifying?

Your entire post has no value.

Lol, the thread topic is what I was on. But like all poor debaters on a red herring diet I'll engage you again in the topic you wish.

I jumped into my story rather than quoting the DMV manual which at the same time the story kind of covers it. I made no illegal maneuvers, removed myself and vehicle from the roadway, raised my arms to flag vehicles to slow down and spoke kindly to the other motorist making them aware of the situation. When stopping the vehicles I always left myself an out or a way to evade being hit should a motorist not stop.

Also if you read the NY MVD guide to dealing with road rage that I posted it said to never block/obstruct a potential road rage'n motorist, allow them to pass. Stopping directly in front of a vehicle is not advised by the MVD.

To address your comments about Mr. Miese ability to removing himself SAFELY FROM THE ROAD (yes I'm pretty sure you're right on that one, good job buddy) it appears that all he would have had to do was keep riding forward until he could safely move to the right shoulder. However he elects to stop in the road.

 

[Neal]

Just learned that one of the biker didn't help the SUV driver because he was an undercover narcotics officer and didn't want to blow his cover. This made absolutely no sense. This rogue cop will be fired!

Makes sense to me.

Even the cop knew the SUV guy was getting what he deserved.

The cop probable had to restrain himself from beating that guy himself.

 

[chroline]

Makes sense to me.

Even the cop knew the SUV guy was getting what he deserved.

The cop probable had to restrain himself from beating that guy himself.

Regardless that rogue cop will be fired unless he rats out his bike gang buddies. This is gold! I Iove it! Justice for Lien!

 

[Ssky0078]

Makes sense to me.

Even the cop knew the SUV guy was getting what he deserved.

The cop probable had to restrain himself from beating that guy himself.

So Neal, you feel it is justifiable to take the law into ones own hand. If you align yourself with the group doing it, yet don't feel it appropriate if you don't align yourself with the group that is doing it to your group.

Project much. Lol

 

[Neal]

Lol, the thread topic is what I was on. But like all poor debaters on a red herring diet I'll engage you again in the topic you wish.

I jumped into my story rather than quoting the DMV manual which at the same time the story kind of covers it. I made no illegal maneuvers, removed myself and vehicle from the roadway, raised my arms to flag vehicles to slow down and spoke kindly to the other motorist making them aware of the situation. When stopping the vehicles I always left myself an out or a way to evade being hit should a motorist not stop.

Also if you read the NY MVD guide to dealing with road rage that I posted it said to never block/obstruct a potential road rage'n motorist, allow them to pass. Stopping directly in front of a vehicle is not advised by the MVD.

To address your comments about Mr. Miese ability to removing himself SAFELY FROM THE ROAD (yes I'm pretty sure you're right on that one, good job buddy) it appears that all he would have had to do was keep riding forward until he could safely move to the right shoulder. However he elects to stop in the road.

There are several riders ahead of the motorcycle.

A second ago you were telling me it was illegal to lane-split in NYC.

You are suggesting the motorcyclist should now take illegal actions. You are wrong.

 

[Neal]

So Neal, you feel it is justifiable to take the law into ones own hand. If you align yourself with the group doing it, yet don't feel it appropriate if you don't align yourself with the group that is doing it to your group.

Project much. Lol

Your post is ridiculously. You play some imagination game of what you think I am thinking, then end it with project much.

I don't see the point of you mocking yourself.

 

[Ssky0078]

There are several riders ahead of the motorcycle.

A second ago you were telling me it was illegal to lane-split in NYC.

You are suggesting the motorcyclist should now take illegal actions. You are wrong.

If there were several riders how come only one was hit? Wouldn't several be hit. Doesn't make sense to me your story.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Because every group ride has an undercover narcotics agent in their midst eh troll?

But again their actions are irrelevant, just like the shady misconduct is irrelavent, as is slashing someone's tires, busting the glass, beating and slashing the guy when you obviously out number them. These are your Heros huh? A bunch of pussies on half stolen half illegal bikes?

Since your so hard. Go up and join the ranks since you are obviously hanging off their nuts, they could use another groupie.

And again your hatred for "well off people" is sickening, bigot.

Opinions are subjective, but it's not an opinion when we look at the facts. Which if you hit the back button a few times......

 

[Ssky0078]

Your post is ridiculously. You play some imagination game of what you think I am thinking, then end it with project much.

I don't see the point of you mocking yourself.

I call it like I see it. You are saying the bikers are justified in attacking a man. Yet a man is not justified in attacking another man because he's in a car.

 

[Ssky0078]

The irony is that in any situation a person can use deadly force if they feel in fear of their life or the life of their family. This is very different than revenge/retaliation.

 

[chroline]

I don't care who was rice or wong, but moderator please close this thread it's getting too hostile.

 

[Ssky0078]

There are several riders ahead of the motorcycle.

A second ago you were telling me it was illegal to lane-split in NYC.

You are suggesting the motorcyclist should now take illegal actions. You are wrong.

The best part is I don't have to resort to simply saying "you are wrong." I just have to keep recapping the information that has been provided thus far and my observational opinion of the video which seems to be corroborated by more than one other forum member over the course of this thread.

Great debate/discussion/argument.

 

[Neal]

I call it like I see it. You are saying the bikers are justified in attacking a man. Yet a man is not justified in attacking another man because he's in a car.

The man was using the car as a deadly weapon, use of deadly force on him is justified.

The officer should have unloaded a clip into the man to protect the public and get in deeper undercover with whoever he was trying to get in on.

 

[Neal]

The best part is I don't have to resort to simply saying "you are wrong." I just have to keep recapping the information that has been provided thus far and my observational opinion of the video which seems to be corroborated by more than one other forum member over the course of this thread.

Great debate/discussion/argument.

You aren't recapping. You are spamming nonsense that we already determined to be irrelevant.

 

[Neal]

If there were several riders how come only one was hit? Wouldn't several be hit. Doesn't make sense to me your story.

2 were hit. You still aren't following the story.