Video Found - My Exact Idle Problem

[Extremity]

I highly doubt this is what you need to do, but I've got the TB carbon fiber setup and my idle sounded about the same for the longest time. When I did the AIS removal/block/whatever you call it (I have a thread here about it somewhere if you search) my idle never sounded the same afterwards, and now it sounds *very* good while idling or at pretty much any RPM.

It obviously could have been a multitude of things I had done while in there; to do the mod I had to take out the battery box, air box, unplug loads of connectors/tubes, tons of stuff. For all I know it was just unplugging the battery and letting the ECU reset, but after I installed the blockoff plates my idle went from that to what it is now and the "popping" sound was dramatically reduced.

Again, I don't think doing that fixed it, but SOMETHING I did while in there certainly did. Or, then again, my bike is magic and fixes problems on its own all the time so maybe it just got sick of its own idle.

 

[Zealot]

If its been idling a lot, go ride it. Plugs load up and change it perhaps?

Connector: only the top locks. It opens by hand.
- Most locks are lever action. You either push down or pull up. That said, push it firmly together and (pry up/down fingers should do) and then try to pull it apart.
If you pull before the lock is released, it won't release.

Welp, riding it seemed fine. Upon startup, or restarting the bike when it's warm - the idle is awful. A few minutes of riding an it's silky smooth up until I turn the bike off again. A victory in the end, since the only time I care is when the bike is warm and I have to sit at stop lights amidst "wubwubwubwub" (may as well be on a Harley, you know?) The ECU figured out how to run the bike again after being unplugged and there's no noticeable change in performance from how it was before I adjusted the TB screws in 1/2 a turn clockwise. The exhaust smelled a bit different to me (less smelly, strangely enough) and the bike pulled just as hard as it ever has. I was almost expecting a loss of performance from (I think) reducing the air going to the cylinders that much? Not to mention the two bottomed out adjustment screws that just made the turn. I'm going to investigate the idle adjustment screw slightly tomorrow, but for now I'm extending a big thank you for sticking out this thread (and headache) with me!

I highly doubt this is what you need to do, but I've got the TB carbon fiber setup and my idle sounded about the same for the longest time. When I did the AIS removal/block/whatever you call it (I have a thread here about it somewhere if you search) my idle never sounded the same afterwards, and now it sounds *very* good while idling or at pretty much any RPM.

It obviously could have been a multitude of things I had done while in there; to do the mod I had to take out the battery box, air box, unplug loads of connectors/tubes, tons of stuff. For all I know it was just unplugging the battery and letting the ECU reset, but after I installed the blockoff plates my idle went from that to what it is now and the "popping" sound was dramatically reduced.

Again, I don't think doing that fixed it, but SOMETHING I did while in there certainly did. Or, then again, my bike is magic and fixes problems on its own all the time so maybe it just got sick of its own idle.

I figure it's got something to do with the fact that sans block of plates, the mix in the exhaust is in a constant state of flux. I was debating blocking these off too just because, and due to what you said I'll definitely think about it a little more. Since unhooking the battery for a bit and messing around today, my ECU was also reset much like yours and my idle has since smoothed out after the adjustments - so maybe there's some correlation. I could eliminate the exhaust sound on mine by blocking off one of the pipes, and I tried two rolls of electrical tape to simulate a more closed in exhaust and it also vanished. I'm hoping the P1 tips I ordered (since I find the bike to be a little bit too loud to begin with) will solve this issue by being a permanent fix.

Magical bike is certainly a plausible explanation...

 

[Zealot]

May not be completely relevant: have the throttle bodies been removed at any stage? I had a mate whose Thundercat would not idle and also had a suicide throttle tendency where, as you roll off, the bike accelerates (not pleasant!)

I stripped, cleaned and synced his carbs, but found the problem to be with the clamps. The clamp allen bolts are difficult to get to and someone had moved the clamps to make access easier. By doing this they had misaligned the notch in the clamp which fits over a lug in the rubber and thereby allowed more air into the system (leaner), causing the idle problem and hanging throttle. Might be worth looking at? I took photo's but can't find them now...

Yikes! Thankfully mine doesn't have that issue! I'm under the impression that mine haven't really been touched at all. The last owner did purely cosmetic upgrades and while he kept it meticulously clean, he did not seem to mess around with any of the actual performance related aspects. Someday soon I'm going to get around to inspecting all the hoses and other finicky parts around the bike.

 

[Extremity]

Welp, riding it seemed fine. Upon startup, or restarting the bike when it's warm - the idle is awful. A few minutes of riding an it's silky smooth up until I turn the bike off again. A victory in the end, since the only time I care is when the bike is warm and I have to sit at stop lights amidst "wubwubwubwub" (may as well be on a Harley, you know?) The ECU figured out how to run the bike again after being unplugged and there's no noticeable change in performance from how it was before I adjusted the TB screws in 1/2 a turn clockwise. The exhaust smelled a bit different to me (less smelly, strangely enough) and the bike pulled just as hard as it ever has. I was almost expecting a loss of performance from (I think) reducing the air going to the cylinders that much? Not to mention the two bottomed out adjustment screws that just made the turn. I'm going to investigate the idle adjustment screw slightly tomorrow, but for now I'm extending a big thank you for sticking out this thread (and headache) with me!



I figure it's got something to do with the fact that sans block of plates, the mix in the exhaust is in a constant state of flux. I was debating blocking these off too just because, and due to what you said I'll definitely think about it a little more. Since unhooking the battery for a bit and messing around today, my ECU was also reset much like yours and my idle has since smoothed out after the adjustments - so maybe there's some correlation. I could eliminate the exhaust sound on mine by blocking off one of the pipes, and I tried two rolls of electrical tape to simulate a more closed in exhaust and it also vanished. I'm hoping the P1 tips I ordered (since I find the bike to be a little bit too loud to begin with) will solve this issue by being a permanent fix.

Magical bike is certainly a plausible explanation...

Just to sort of completely disclose my setup since we both have TB pipes, I bought my pipes from a member on here and they're just open. I don't have the tips or anything, it's loud but sounds great.

I'm not sure if it matters but I also removed the cat. Well, not "removed" - I wanted it to appear as if I had a cat if somebody looked at it, but hallowed it out. Very carefully. So it's basically a straight pipe but appears as if the factory cat is still on there. Aside from that, you and I have pretty similar setups.

Have you done any of the diag O2 adjustments that are posted here? I believe when I first got the bike and the new exhaust I was pretty big on modding whatever I could and that I had done that as well? Not 100%

 

[Zealot]

Just to sort of completely disclose my setup since we both have TB pipes, I bought my pipes from a member on here and they're just open. I don't have the tips or anything, it's loud but sounds great.

I'm not sure if it matters but I also removed the cat. Well, not "removed" - I wanted it to appear as if I had a cat if somebody looked at it, but hallowed it out. Very carefully. So it's basically a straight pipe but appears as if the factory cat is still on there. Aside from that, you and I have pretty similar setups.

Have you done any of the diag O2 adjustments that are posted here? I believe when I first got the bike and the new exhaust I was pretty big on modding whatever I could and that I had done that as well? Not 100%

I think you might be referring to the CO adjustment. I was messing around with the connector for a couple of hours today but couldn't separate the two... That was my main goal today, but it never happened due to technical difficulties.

 

[2006_FZ6]

my bike sounds a bit like that, I assumed it was normal...

Mine too and it has Leo Vance exhaust with the baffles in. I assumed it was normal too.

 

[FinalImpact]

If connector is still an issue, throw a positap on there. Ground it when you need it.

 

[Zealot]

If connector is still an issue, throw a positap on there. Ground it when you need it.

I'm going to take a peek at it another day since it did nothing short of frustrate me when I tried to pry it apart yesterday. For now it seems like the idle on the bike is where it oughta be. I'm kind of wondering though, by dialing in the TB screws I effectively richened the mixture - right?

 

[0l0dom0l0]

I think the ****ty idle on theses bikes is just something I have learned to live with. It deffo goes away if you cover one of the pipes.

I'm running decat and scorpions and the idle has got worse the less the back pressure.

I think it's partially down to the crap fuel injection system on theses bikes. The throttle response off idle is also **** IMO, compared to my dads FZ1 where the idle is smooth and the response is instant on the throttle.

Just learned to live with it.

 

[Zealot]

I think the ****ty idle on theses bikes is just something I have learned to live with. It deffo goes away if you cover one of the pipes.

I'm running decat and scorpions and the idle has got worse the less the back pressure.

I think it's partially down to the crap fuel injection system on theses bikes. The throttle response off idle is also **** IMO, compared to my dads FZ1 where the idle is smooth and the response is instant on the throttle.

Just learned to live with it.

Heh, you don't have to live with anything if you're able to fix it! Try following some of the stuff that was mentioned in here perhaps and see what happens. My main complaint about the throttle on this bike is that it's very abrupt when you're coming back on - even slowly. Sometimes even on good shifts I get a bit of a jolt, but nothing too bad and it's a lot of fun (said jolt really vanishes when you're higher in the RPM range too)

 

[ChanceCoats123]

For what it's worth, that is NOT a normal idle (in case you hadn't realized yet). I've got a PC3 and two brothers pipes. I've got no looping like that with my idle. It moves around small amounts, but is generally pretty smooth. If covering exhausts (creating back pressure) helps, then the bike isn't flowing the proper amount of air IN to the motor. Either something needs to be looked at with the throttle bodies and idle air control, or you need to open up the intake. Since other people have run similar setups without having to flow more air, I would say it's just a matter of tweaking the throttle bodies.

 

[thisisbenji]

For what it's worth, that is NOT a normal idle (in case you hadn't realized yet). I've got a PC3 and two brothers pipes. I've got no looping like that with my idle. It moves around small amounts, but is generally pretty smooth. If covering exhausts (creating back pressure) helps, then the bike isn't flowing the proper amount of air IN to the motor. Either something needs to be looked at with the throttle bodies and idle air control, or you need to open up the intake. Since other people have run similar setups without having to flow more air, I would say it's just a matter of tweaking the throttle bodies.

Do you have a cat delete? That may be the difference between his Leo Vince and your Two Bros.

I think with the Two Bros you have to get a seperate cat delete, but the cat delete is part of the Leo Vince setup.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Do you have a cat delete? That may be the difference between his Leo Vince and your Two Bros.

I think with the Two Bros you have to get a seperate cat delete, but the cat delete is part of the Leo Vince setup.

That is true. I do not have a cat delete as of now, but I've been looking into it. If I get one, I'll post back here with how my idle has changed (or hasn't).

 

[thisisbenji]

I'll be interested in hearing about that, although you do have a power commander so that my ruin the results for those of us without a power commander.

 

[FinalImpact]

I'll be interested in hearing about that, although you do have a power commander so that my ruin the results for those of us without a power commander.

^^ yours still have all 3 cats? Header and main?

I always assumed for clean air they ran the idle AFR at 14.7:1 as the CATs are most efficient there. But they don't. They run at roughly 12.5:1 or 5% co. Thats what the vaccuum gauge will show you is rich lowers idle speed and if the idle speed is at 1300 while @8.6inHg it should correct it. And it did on mine. Mine is not dead nuts steady but it has no cats and with the ignition mod its got very good throttle response like a proper bike should. Nite and day from stock form!

 

[thisisbenji]

^^ yours still have all 3 cats? Header and main?

I always assumed for clean air they ran the idle AFR at 14.7:1 as the CATs are most efficient there. But they don't. They run at roughly 12.5:1 or 5% co. Thats what the vaccuum gauge will show you is rich lowers idle speed and if the idle speed is at 1300 while @8.6inHg it should correct it. And it did on mine. Mine is not dead nuts steady but it has no cats and with the ignition mod its got very good throttle response like a proper bike should. Nite and day from stock form!

I have the two little ones in the header, but not the main one in the down pipe. The slip on is literally the only modification to my bike though, looks like you have a lot more done than I do.

 

[FinalImpact]

I think the ****ty idle on theses bikes is just something I have learned to live with. It deffo goes away if you cover one of the pipes.

I'm running decat and scorpions and the idle has got worse the less the back pressure.

I think it's partially down to the crap fuel injection system on theses bikes. The throttle response off idle is also **** IMO, compared to my dads FZ1 where the idle is smooth and the response is instant on the throttle.

Just learned to live with it.

FWIW: My first big experiment was geared at getting rid of the throttle snatch off idle. 3 main things were done and it worked. Well, it 85% better than stock, so lets say it made an huge improvement.

- Main cat gone (S2)
- CO (C1/C2 increased from 0/0 to 25/25 then to 30/30
- Advance ignition with a simple mod to the trigger wheel.

Knowing the chop could be fixed I went several steps further as these actions WOKE THE BIKE up! Throttle Response was very good! I mean, no lag! As in, its tracking my wrist.

Round two:
S1 header to S2 bike! Throttle response kicks wakes up more.
Fuel Controller added - Throttle snatch 100% gone.

So it can be done, S1 owners likely just need a fuel controller and proper map to fuel just off idle.

Not that anyone is asking but I can explain why the cats impact throttle response if there is a need to know....

 

[Ninja Apprentice]

My 2007 S2 used to idle like that also and drove me nuts! Leo Vince exhaust with db killers in, K&N filter, and Power Commander 3. The problem with mine was the Power Commander tune was TOO RICH! I had the bike dynoed and my tuner immediately dropped 25 percent of the fuel. After that everything has been great!

 

[FinalImpact]

If you notice in this picture there are only two cells on the whole Bazzaz map that impact idle mixture/quality/AFR.

Zero % TPS (throttle) at 1000 & 1500 RPM. Now this may not apply to every bike, but mine did NOT care for anything above 12.8:1 AFR. The closer it was to 12.5:1 at 1300 RPM also brought it into OEM spec for vacuum.

I'm just saying, it would be easy to remove LOTS of fuel from many places and not touch the idle setting. In fact those cells are empty so as to run off the OEM ECU fuel map. In fact this map is across the board about 12.5:1 and has been leaned out for more power removing fuel from most areas as its too fat.

Pull up your map at look at the Zero TPS value at idle speed and report those values. Do keep in mind that CO (C1/C2) values impact these settings.

 

[Zealot]

Welp, my baffles arrived and I threw them in. A hell of a lot more quiet with a difference of only a couple decibels, and the idle appears to be that little extra bit more smooth once it's warmed up. Riding felt better too, but maybe it's because I was able to focus a tad more without the pipes screaming in my ears.