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Another Dumb Rider (article link)

That is so sad. Poor bike had to pay for that jerks decisions.



As far as a dead motorcycle thief goes...good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
Sparky10 said:
As far as a dead motorcycle thief goes...good riddance to bad rubbish.
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Easy buddy...Yeah, the deceased may have been a bad person, and I can think of a lot of things that he deserves, but nobody deserves to die for being a bonehead. That said, I'm glad he's not on the road anymore.
 
Funny.. story reads that he reached speed of between 50 and 100 miles and hour...LOL. What a big gap in speeds, I mean shouldn't you say between 90 and 100 mph, not 50 and 100.

IMO ... his childhood is irrelevant... he ran so he knew it was wrong so little sympathy here. I wouldn't wish death but I don't feel sorry either. Not much worse than a thief!
 
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stryken said:
Funny.. story reads that he reached speed of between 50 and 100 miles and hour...LOL. What a big gap in speeds, I mean shouldn't you say between 90 and 100 mph, not 50 and 100.

IMO ... his childhood is irrelevant... he ran so he knew it was wrong so little sympathy here. I wouldn't wish death but I don't feel sorry either.
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I'd be pretty certain it ended, when he reached zero MPH, in a very short period of time......
 
Well I wouldn't go as far as calling that guy a "Rider"

He got what he deserved and he knew the consequences. The guy had a suspended license and stole a motorcycle. Your city is a much better place with him gone, and it just saved the tax payer a lot of money by not having him go through the judicial & penitentiary system.
 
Yeah, I’ll go ahead and apologize to all the bleeding hearts I’m going to offend:

I personally feel as though he got EXACTLY what he deserves! Most of you know that I work as an Officer in my real life and I see this stupid stuff all the time. Just recently had two armed robbers get chased by the police here. They outdrove their abilities and paid the price with their lives when they crashed. i personally feel way more sorry for the JR officers that responded with us to that call and had to watch 2 idiots suffer and die while being helpless to ease their suffering than I do for these 2 idiots that FORCED this situation on them! This guy stole a bike and hit another car while running from the police. Look at this from a different point; what if he had stolen a Hummer and just happened to hit your mother or wife in their door while running from the police? I’m pretty sure they would have been at the very least seriously hurt if not dead. Would you say "I’m so sorry for him? I wish I knew what kind a childhood he had?" no I don’t think most would. I think you would want him tried to the max! If not then I would like to know what kind of childhood YOU had!

I personally wish that the judicial system wasn’t as broken as it is now. i wish that there was no minimum/maximum type of punishment. if i had my way then i would have a set rule. If you kill someone while trying to rob them then we kill you. If you steal you get 5 years in jail. If you rape someone then we either kill you or you spend life in jail. I know if someone raped someone I care about 20 years is not going to cut it. You should NEVER be allowed back into society!

I know many of you are from other countries and other states and it is different over in these areas. But these are basic rules of society set down since Moses brought them back down from the mountain. They are not that damn hard to comprehend. I understand that many of you have liberal views and you are free to express those just as I am free to express mine. This country needs to wake up and smell the sewer pit we are headed to! This country has a very bad outlook in most courts I have been in that sees crimes as “OK” as long as no one was hurt. I go to trials with armed robberies where the judge will ask; “was anyone hurt?” and if the answer is no then he gives a lesser sentence. I mean what kind a stupid thinking is that?!?! “Well I’m glad you only scared these people real bad waving a gun around and taking all of their possessions that they worked so hard for just so you didn’t have to pay for it. But I’m sure glad you didn’t hurt anyone! So how does 5 years suspended sentence with probation sound to you? Oh and I know you will be back within 6 months for the same thing I’ll just check up on you then.” When did we get this mentality that just because, thank God, no one was hurt THIS time that makes it better?

I apologize again for this rant and most of you know that this is the longest post I have ever put here but this something that has just been gnawing at my innards for years now and I see where we are headed and I see no way out of it or a way for me to change it. if I had my way EVERYONE from 18-20 would be in the military and EVERYONE would have to work 1 year as either police, fire, or ambulance just to see the darker side of society and see if you like where we are headed.

Ok so rant off……………..thank you for your time listening to me ramble on and we now return you to your regularly scheduled forums……………..
 
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IMO People complain about things and dont even stop to look at the big picture..yeah yeah the world sucks, if your mom got hit by a car you would want revenge..on a micro level you would get your justice and this self centered temporary fix would not change the society at all..do we know whether his dad was beating up his mom? Is it possible that he never got justice for things he should have never seen and got f'd up in the head? I just have to be the devils advocate here since there is such a harsh crowd saying F*%^ YEAH to someones death. This is messed up. One should not complain about how bad the society is if they help perpetuate the problem. And also It seems silly to judge someone so harshly with so little info. Even with all the info in the world, who are you to decide on another beings fate? The point is hate and segregation perpetuates the very problems that you are so hurt about. You may have a noble cause, I think it is important to be able to see where you cross the line and become a part of the problem, chasing your noble cause.
 
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I cannot say I feel sad there is one less motorcycle-suspended-license and thief in this world. But this guy had to have had some family and friends and people who might otherwise miss him in some way. I would rather see karma played out differently. Just my .02
 
McLovin said:
yup thats what we do, we punish and cage and exclude..we perpetuate.
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What? To perpetuate the situation would be to do do nothing about it, is that your answer? Punishment is a deterrent plan and simple, without punish cage and exclude you would would be living in a savage world. Read history and you will see what happens when there is no enforcement of law and moral standards.

I truly am curious to hear how you would deal with the crimes of theft, murder and rape.?
 
stryken said:
What? To perpetuate the situation would be to do do nothing about it, is that your answer? Punishment is a deterrent plan and simple, without punish cage and exclude you would would be living in a savage world. Read history and you will see what happens when there is no enforcement of law and moral standards.

I truly am curious to hear how you would deal with the crimes of theft, murder and rape.?
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I edited my post..that wasnt explanatory.

There is difference between "punishing people as you are trying to find the source of the problem and doing your best to give them a chance to function in society" and "Deciding that you are the ultimate authority to say whether someones death was just or not."
 
My heart isn't bleeding for this guy, but for the broader circumstance. I've said it before: There's never a good excuse for bad behavior, but there's always a good reason. It's easy to react harshly to a situtation like this--it's probably an automatic reaction for those personally involved. I'd be pissed if he hit someone I knew. But consider this:

Everyone born in the world starts out with a clean slate. Their development (or lack thereof) is based on parental competence, social exposure, education, adult influence, incremental life lesson situations, etc. etc.

We are ALL the same. We all have the same wants/needs. We all have the same emotions/feelings. So when I see a bad apple, I see a person who has been sold short by the systems and people that are obligated to "bring up" a person in a responsible/accountable manner. This isn't true for EVERY bad apple, some people are just wacked in the head, but for most it is.

It's easy to react on emotion. It's not so easy to understand a broader failure of society when one of its member wanders astray.

I'm not taking away from the fact that this idiot was personally responsible for his own actions. I'm just saying that his "picture" is bigger and more complicated than anyone knows. This is what a social worker or psychotherapist dissects on a regular basis. It's their job to understand the complexities of human behavior and hopefully effect change years before "joe loser" has to deal with the law. It's a cop's job to enforce the law. Either professional doing the other's job just doesn't work. By the way, I'm not a social worker, but these people (along with cops) clean up the crap of society and never get credit for it.
 
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To FZME:
Other than the props you give to police, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!

“Everyone born in the world starts out with a clean slate. Their development (or lack thereof) is based on parental competence, social exposure, education, adult influence, incremental life lesson situations, etc. etc.

We are ALL the same. We all have the same wants/needs. We all have the same emotions/feelings. So when I see a bad apple, I see a person who has been sold short by the systems and people that are obligated to "bring up" a person in a responsible/accountable manner. This isn't true for EVERY bad apple, some people are just wacked in the head, but for most it is.”

You are right about everyone starting with a clean slate. However the same old repeated story of “product of your environment” is a load of rubbish excuses as far as I can see. Everyone, and I mean everyone, is given the same excuse when questioned about this. “oh he has a poor family and just didn’t have the same opportunities.” “oh he just didn’t have good teachers so he doesn’t know any better” “oh he has rich parents that never let him get in trouble so now he thinks he can get away with anything” well what about the people that are in those same situations that EXCELL at what they are trying to do. The same excuses are given but in REVERSE! He lived in a good neighborhood with loving parents, he had good teachers, and his parents were rich. Everyone has a life to make a decision and to try and get ahead. What you make with it is your choice. If you steal and get shot by a home owner or the police then that is YOUR OWN fault. If you win the Nobel Prize does society get the credit for making that dream come true for him? No but you let a minority or under achiever or someone in a poverty stricken area get killed or in trouble and it is SOCIETIES fault. It IS NOT societies fault. It is the INDIVIDUALS fault! They made that choice to go and be lazy, steal, and suck on society’s tit! Just like the Nobel Prize winners made the decision to not go party and decided to stay in a study for their dream.

And while on the subject, since when is it MY job to make sure that the rest of the people around me make it into society? Because the last time I checked it is MY job to remove them from society where they can not harm the rest of society and bring it down by this disease. It is no different than raising plants. If you get a plant with a dead limb you don’t leave it. You remove it so that the rest of the plant is strong and healthy. I know this sounds callous but it the only way to make it survive. When society quits trying to tie these branches up and hope they grow again and just removes them then we will have a full flowering society.

Until then we are stuck with this dysfunctional society that we have.

Don’t get me wrong I do believe that you should be tried and I think that you should get a fair trial. But come on! Why does the state get ONE and I repeat ONE chance to prove you are guilty and after that you are protected by double jeopardy. But joe blow the crack dealing murder gets to appeal his decision 20 TIMES!!! I think you should get ONE appeal. If you are convicted by a jury of your peers TWICE then you are guilty. If you are truly innocent of the crime you are charged with and STILL get found guilty of that crime then you are GUILTY of something!!! I just don’t get why this system and societys views are ALWAYS in favor of the BAD GUY. I mean do you even realize the time and trouble it takes for me to catch this guy. Has any of you been there when I chase a armed thug into a dark alley with a gun and am shot at, have my hand cut to the bone, or bones broken trying to stop these criminals? No you are not but you are going to be the first to say “what a poor child. I wonder what WE did wrong to make him this way?” It truly disturbs me to the core I can tell you.

And just for clarification this is not directed at one person but at society as a whole.
 
fzme said:
My heart isn't bleeding for this guy, but for the broader circumstance. I've said it before: There's never a good excuse for bad behavior, but there's always a good reason. It's easy to react harshly to a situtation like this--it's probably an automatic reaction for those personally involved. I'd be pissed if he hit someone I knew. But consider this:

Everyone born in the world starts out with a clean slate. Their development (or lack thereof) is based on parental competence, social exposure, education, adult influence, incremental life lesson situations, etc. etc.

We are ALL the same. We all have the same wants/needs. We all have the same emotions/feelings. So when I see a bad apple, I see a person who has been sold short by the systems and people that are obligated to "bring up" a person in a responsible/accountable manner. This isn't true for EVERY bad apple, some people are just wacked in the head, but for most it is.

It's easy to react on emotion. It's not so easy to understand a broader failure of society when one of its member wanders astray.

I'm not taking away from the fact that this idiot was personally responsible for his own actions. I'm just saying that his "picture" is bigger and more complicated than anyone knows. This is what a social worker or psychotherapist dissects on a regular basis. It's their job to understand the complexities of human behavior and hopefully effect change years before "joe loser" has to deal with the law. It's a cop's job to enforce the law. Either professional doing the other's job just doesn't work. By the way, I'm not a social worker, but these people (along with cops) clean up the crap of society and never get credit for it.
Click to expand...

My dad worked as a parole officer for about 4 years after he retired from the USAF in the middle 1970's.

He had to quit doing it, because there was almost NO 'success' in the process. Recidivism was well over 95%. If you got popped, and let out on parole, it was incredibly probable that you would be back in jail. Very nearly 100%.

If this guy culled himself from the gene pool.... that's not a bad thing, and I refuse to feel bad about it.

I did a few years of military police work in the Bay Area...... we had a tickler file on all the bad apples we ran into. You kept seeing the same ones, over and over again. Eventually, they would check out due to their own stupidity, by getting arrested for something serious enough that we didn't see them again, or by dying. But suddenly finding the light, and deciding to walk the straight and narrow? Puhlease.
 
I totally screwed up that multiple quote thing...sorry.

sempul said:
To FZME:


You are right about everyone starting with a clean slate. However the same old repeated story of “product of your environment” is a load of rubbish excuses as far as I can see.
Click to expand...

Two things, "product of environment" can't be denied as a factor in individual development. It has an affect on every person in the world on some level. A person's accent is proof of that. What I should have more clearly stated, is that P.O.E. is ONE factor in a persons's development.

Second, Quoting from the second sentence of my post, "There's NEVER A GOOD EXCUSE for bad behavior, but there's ALWAYS A GOOD REASON"

And again, it should read REASONS (plural). I'm not excusing anything, nor should anyone. A person whith a crappy upbringing still knows right from wrong. I'm saying that that there are cause and effect situations that happen in a person's life that can contribute to their own success or demise.

Sempul:

It IS NOT societies fault. It is the INDIVIDUALS fault! They made that choice to go and be lazy, steal, and suck on society’s tit! Just like the Nobel Prize winners made the decision to not go party and decided to stay in a study for their dream.


fzme:

It's awfully easy to judge people based on their choices alone. Again, accountablility is a must--and that's what you to. You're the enforcer. It's someone else's job to be empathetic or analytical.


Sempul:

And while on the subject, since when is it MY job to make sure that the rest of the people around me make it into society?


fzme:

It is in everyone's interest to see that their neighbor makes it (to some subjective extent.) I'd like to think compassion is innate.


Sempul:

If you get a plant with a dead limb you don’t leave it. You remove it so that the rest of the plant is strong and healthy. I know this sounds callous but it the only way to make it survive. When society quits trying to tie these branches up and hope they grow again and just removes them then we will have a full flowering society. Until then we are stuck with this dysfunctional society that we have.


fzme:

I get the analogy--it's about survival of the fittest. So believe me, I'm not saying you're a nazi, but isn't that what they wanted? A cleansed society?
Just saying...that's how it might come off.

Sempul:

Don’t get me wrong I do believe that you should be tried and I think that you should get a fair trial. But come on! Why does the state get ONE and I repeat ONE chance to prove you are guilty and after that you are protected by double jeopardy. But joe blow the crack dealing murder gets to appeal his decision 20 TIMES!!! I think you should get ONE appeal. If you are convicted by a jury of your peers TWICE then you are guilty. If you are truly innocent of the crime you are charged with and STILL get found guilty of that crime then you are GUILTY of something!!! I just don’t get why this system and societys views are ALWAYS in favor of the BAD GUY. I mean do you even realize the time and trouble it takes for me to catch this guy. Has any of you been there when I chase a armed thug into a dark alley with a gun and am shot at, have my hand cut to the bone, or bones broken trying to stop these criminals? No you are not but you are going to be the first to say “what a poor child. I wonder what WE did wrong to make him this way?” It truly disturbs me to the core I can tell you.


And just for clarification this is not directed at one person but at society as a whole.

fzme:

Some of your concerns here are legit problems in our systems. Some of it sounds like job dissatisfaction or burnout. I think that both you and your ilk, and me and mine, want the same thing--peace and justice. The difference is that what what you have given up on as an unattainable ideal, others have taken and shaped into a workable model.
 
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