Cam Chain Tensioner.

[Bonner]

Sorry to be a bother about this, I know there's a million other threads out there but they've not given me what I need to work with.

I've messed with CCTs before (One on a Kawasaki ER-5 to be precise), but I have the rattle that everyone else gets and I wish to sort it if possible. One fellow mentioned taking a bolt out and getting some oil down there, which bolt exactly. If it's the centre bolt wouldn't that release the ratchet and require removal of the unit to get it reset again? Or am I remembering wrong/does it work differently on these?

I would prefer to take the whole unit out and have a poke at it, I heard the reset procedure is fiddly. Has anyone got any pictures to show how it's done? My service manual tells me nothing and the pictures on here have 404d. I need to get 'round to getting a Haynes! :rtfm:

Cheers in advance guys!

 

[Nelly]

Sorry to be a bother about this, I know there's a million other threads out there but they've not given me what I need to work with.

I've messed with CCTs before (One on a Kawasaki ER-5 to be precise), but I have the rattle that everyone else gets and I wish to sort it if possible. One fellow mentioned taking a bolt out and getting some oil down there, which bolt exactly. If it's the centre bolt wouldn't that release the ratchet and require removal of the unit to get it reset again? Or am I remembering wrong/does it work differently on these?

I would prefer to take the whole unit out and have a poke at it, I heard the reset procedure is fiddly. Has anyone got any pictures to show how it's done? My service manual tells me nothing and the pictures on here have 404d. I need to get 'round to getting a Haynes! :rtfm:

Cheers in advance guys!

You need to be sure this is a cam chain issue mate. There are two schools of thought 3 if you include the clutch lever theory.
The standard tensioner is an automatic tensioner. I am not sure what the consequences of just undoing it are. I also had an ER-5 and my rattle is not the same as the Kwak.

Nelly

 

[Bonner]

You need to be sure this is a cam chain issue mate. There are two schools of thought 3 if you include the clutch lever theory.
The standard tensioner is an automatic tensioner. I am not sure what the consequences of just undoing it are. I also had an ER-5 and my rattle is not the same as the Kwak.

Nelly

Nah, it sounds like a CCT issue. Correct side of the engine, not varied with RPMs, sounds like a loose bolt. As long as the tensioner is reset again there'll be no consequences. Besides, it's not a massively difficult job so why not give it a look over really?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Sorry to be a bother about this, I know there's a million other threads out there but they've not given me what I need to work with.

I've messed with CCTs before (One on a Kawasaki ER-5 to be precise), but I have the rattle that everyone else gets and I wish to sort it if possible. One fellow mentioned taking a bolt out and getting some oil down there, which bolt exactly. If it's the centre bolt wouldn't that release the ratchet and require removal of the unit to get it reset again? Or am I remembering wrong/does it work differently on these?

I would prefer to take the whole unit out and have a poke at it, I heard the reset procedure is fiddly. Has anyone got any pictures to show how it's done? My service manual tells me nothing and the pictures on here have 404d. I need to get 'round to getting a Haynes! :rtfm:

Cheers in advance guys!

The center bolt, once removed, gives you access to the racheting setup. If you pull the assembly (the upper and lower bolts), the CCT extends out. It can now be removed. Once out, you would keep some pressure pushing the tensioner in while turning the screw (in the middle) clockwise. This allows the rod to retract.

It shouldn't bind at all and extend smoothly. If you want to put some oil on the assembly, it won't hurt anything...

For re-assembly, do the same thing but you have to hold a screwdriver on the CCT until its fully seated. Then release and it'll extend.

I believe a new CCT comes with a "strap(not sure of the exact name) that allows you to bolt it up RETRACTED. You pull the "strap" and it releases the tensioner.

The tensioner is under $100.00 and if in doubt, replace it, cheap insurance...

I would also pay attention to how far out from the block the FULLY EXTENDED tensioner is. If its almost to the mating surface, its an indication of a worn chain/guide...

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I noticed that your bike is an '04, how many miles on the bike?

I had the rattling sound, it got to a point that I went through 3 Crankshaft Position Sensor, plus the CCT to figure out that my Cam Chain was stretched out. I ended up getting the chain replaced, plus the guides and sprockets. Sounds good now.

 

[Motogiro]

Also: The procedure requires the motor to be at TDC. You don't want to jump timing and kiss valves!

 

[FinalImpact]

I would also pay attention to how far out from the block the FULLY EXTENDED tensioner is. If its almost to the mating surface, its an indication of a worn chain/guide...

I'd guess you're implying the "mating surface" as the point where the assembly contacts the block? My first read was that you meant the removed bolt. Could you clarify?

Flush with block = true! Potential the guides are worn and chain is stretched.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I'd guess you're implying the "mating surface" as the point where the assembly contacts the block? My first read was that you meant the removed bolt. Could you clarify?

Flush with block = true! Potential the guides are worn and chain is stretched.

Correct. Remove the two mounting bolts and check to see how far away from the blockthe NOW EXTENDED tensioner pops out.

My old KLR 250 with a new cam chain and rear guide (up against the tensioner). Before the replacement, the space was maybe 1/8". BTW, the KLR cam chain is approc 3x longer than the FZ6 and much, much more involved in changing out (clutch cover, valve cover, rotor, 2 rotor side covers, balancer chain and balancers/shafts, etc. It was just starting to rattle at 28,000 miles.. The first picture shows how far away from the block the CCT is with the new chain and rear guide vs the worn chain at 1/8" gap

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Also: The procedure requires the motor to be at TDC. You don't want to jump timing and kiss valves!

AS long as the engine isn't turned/moved, it doesn't need to be at TDC.

If your double checking cam timing, yes it would need to be at TDC.

Some guys on the FJR forum go as far as removing the cam chain cover, "plastic tieing" the cam chain taught, by-passing the CCT, then replacing the CCT so there is absolutly no possibility of any cam chain/tooth jumping/movement.

The FJR and FZ has the same set up.

BTW, the FJR had an updated tensioner put out by Yamaha, I don't know about the FZ6...

 

[Bonner]

Okay, so here's the procedure as I understand it from the descriptions.

1) Undo the two bolts joining the CCT to the block
2) Measure the distance from the end of the centre bolt to the end of the ratchet. If at the mating surface go and punch the dealer who sold it me.

3) Now here's the part I'm confused with and if I remember correctly, the hard part of the process with my old CCT. How do I keep the ratchet retracted while bolting it back to the block? You say use a screwdriver but how is it possible to hold the ratchet in and bolt it to the block at the same time?

I noticed that your bike is an '04, how many miles on the bike?

I had the rattling sound, it got to a point that I went through 3 Crankshaft Position Sensor, plus the CCT to figure out that my Cam Chain was stretched out. I ended up getting the chain replaced, plus the guides and sprockets. Sounds good now.

It's got about 16 thousand miles on it at the moment. I bought it a couple of months ago and love it, but I'm wary of the unfamiliar noises it's making.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Okay, so here's the procedure as I understand it from the descriptions.

1) Undo the two bolts joining the CCT to the block
2) Measure the distance from the end of the centre bolt to the end of the ratchet. If at the mating surface go and punch the dealer who sold it me.

3) Now here's the part I'm confused with and if I remember correctly, the hard part of the process with my old CCT. How do I keep the ratchet retracted while bolting it back to the block? You say use a screwdriver but how is it possible to hold the ratchet in and bolt it to the block at the same time?


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Pretty much yes...

Remove the two bolts holding the tensioner, it will push itself out from the block. Hopefully they'll be some space (my KLR had .5" with a new chain and main guide, the worn chain, about 1/8") between the mating surface of the block and the mating surface of the tensioner. If there is none or very little, the tensioner is fully extended at rest, the chain/guides are likely worn out, (no tension makes lots of noise and eventual major damage).. Then punch out the dealer...

As noted above, once removed, check the tensioner (screw in the inner screw with some pressure on the rod) and let it unwind slowly. It should be nice and smooth.. You can put some oil in there as well. If there's not much tension (there is no set #) IMHO, replace it....

As for re-installation, again, screw in the center bolt with a small screwdriver, some tension on the rod, now you maneauver the assembly back in the block and bolt up. Try and let the tensioner unwind slowly if possible.

**I know on the KLR adjuster, you can get the tensioner in the block NOT WOUND IN, turn the center screw in clockwise while pushing the assembly in and tightening the outside main bolts as you make progress. I'm sure you can do the same with the Yamaha as well. Just don't force the tensioner, turn the screw in some, tighten the outer bolts some, repeat...

 

[Nelly]

Also: The procedure requires the motor to be at TDC. You don't want to jump timing and kiss valves!

That is my main concern, Bloddy TDC gets ya all the time.

I wonder if the new FJR system is compatible with the FZ6?

Nelly

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That is my main concern, Bloddy TDC gets ya all the time.

I wonder if the new FJR system is compatible with the FZ6?

Nelly

I just looked up part # for 2007 models, both FJR and FZ:

FJR old part # is: 5JW 12210-01-00
FJR new part # is: 5JW-12210-10-00
FZ6 only part # is: 5SL-12210-10-00


Obviously different #'s but the part # change is changed closer to the FZ from the FJR..

 

[Bonner]

Cheers for the info, I believe I have the process down now.

I just need to find a way to get at the bolts now. Typically the CCT is located right behind a section of frame... :Flip:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Looking at my 07, I think I'd remove the clutch cable holder (2 bolts) which would open it up quite a bit (attached to the rt side cover).

A cut down allen key with an appropriate 1/4" drive socket with a swivel should help too...

Please post what you come up with...

 

[heath_AU]

Hello all

Well i have finally grown tired of that rattle emanating from the right side of my block. Has been there for a while now and while once it occurred mostly when she was cold, over the past few months it has grown louder and now occurs almost all the time. Pretty certain this will be the tensioner.
She has 59000kms on the clock so from what I have read here it is very much due to be replaced. I have spoken to a very highly regarded moto-mechanic (best in the state i am told my all the local veteran riders) and he agreed that this noise will be the TCT. He was so certain he told me this without even seeing the bike. And he also recommended a APE manual unit.
I have found a few of these online and they appear to be a cince to install.
Has anyone here fitted one as yet?
If so, are they really just a simple bolt-in job?
It appears to be just 2 bolts and a gasket.

Cheers

HeatH

 

[PhotoAl]

I replaced mine with a stock tensioner, the manual unit will do a good job of tensioning the chain and should be no more difficult to install than the OEM. HOWEVER, a manual tensioner needs to be set properly - too tight is bad as well - and kept in adjustment as they will change with temperature and wear. If the OEM has taken you 59,000KM then a new one whould get you another 59,000KM. Will you still have the bike? Just remember that is a question I ask others but never myself Per the manual you should use a new gasket with a new tensioner. Two tensioners took me aboug 35,000 miles and I still have them. When the second one went bad (started to make noise) I lubed the original one up really well and put it in until the new one came in. Am still of the opinion that they would do better with a periodic lubing with motor oil, say every oil change pull it out and dump some new oil on it - maybe could even get by with just removing the cap bolt and poring oil down that hole.

 

[heath_AU]

I wonder if you could grease them? Seems like a better option that just dribbling some engine oil over them. I wonder if a little bit of grease would contaminate engine oil?
Anyone?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I wonder if you could grease them? Seems like a better option that just dribbling some engine oil over them. I wonder if a little bit of grease would contaminate engine oil?
Anyone?

The unit is likely sealed up however there may be a clip to pull the unit apart. The CCT, in its entire life time may move 3/4". A little bit of grease, (if you can get it apart) won't hurt anything. Threads binding, the spring loosing tension, IMO, is a reason to just replace it. Its just not worth blowing up your engine. :thumbup:

I have done the oiling on the CCT (and working it in and out) on my old KLR250 and it did seem to help. The shop I used to frequent for anything I couldn't do, for the KLR, put an extra wind in the spring (forgot how he did it as it was 20+ years ago) which solved the problem. It was just a tad more tension on the spring. I don't know if you can do the same with the FZ6 CCT. Should you try it, I'd keep track of the # of winds in the spring stock and maybe go an extra wind or two. You don't want it too tight...

On my old 1989 KLR 250, it had the original cam chain at 73,000 miles when I sold it. My last (also sold) 2005 KLR 250, the chain was worn at 28,000 miles. A new cam chain (same tensioner) fixed the rattling, it was quieter than new...


I found this thread on an R6 forum, very informative, especially the cam chain guides and the photo's posted:
http://www.r6-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111850

 

[heath_AU]

Well i have been seeking opinions from a few places and i have decided to just replace it with a APE manual tensioner. Managed to get one from USA for around $50 USD.
Now the wait begins.
I am convinced that the increased engine vibration of late is at least also partly due to the failing tensioner. Cant wait to get it sorted.