Congress, Senate, Fed, Treasury and SEC

[mstewar1]

There's absolutely no disagreement on my part with the notion that our government is f'd up and a good housecleaning is in order. No issues with that. I'm not about disagreeing and being some kind of prig. I'm all about just trying to get at root causes and seeking to understand and find ways to fix stuff -- as I think you are, too. So no issues at all with the tone, tenor, or direction of the thread, it's all very interesting -- if not a little frustrating.

It's just that we are a country of laws. Or so our constitution would have us believe. So there's that avenue of redress of issues -- go through the legal, legally permissible/established structures. And I think that our read of how the current system functions -- or perhaps more correctly, doesn't function -- is likewise not too far apart.

I love the idea of having the current tools who're in power having to wear jumpsuits with their "sponsors" festooned loud and clear. Brilliant idea. I digress. Our system is busted. It just plain don't work. The fools are fiddling and bloviating while the empire crumbles and burns about them.

But the other means for addressing the issue of our government being jacked up, that this thread suggests, is armed insurrection. While that sounds tempting on a number of levels, my point has more to do with how our culture, from the legal system to the media, serve to constrain such action.

The moment that one chooses to take direct action, the label of domestic terrorist or outright wing-nut is applied.

And while for you, my friend, as a white male, may have sympathetic, like-minded, supportive brethren, however dispersed they may be, if the poo were to actually hit the whirling machinery, would the other folks of differing cultural, ethnic (and so on) stripes choose to side with you? Would they define the desired end goal in the same way? It just seems, to my little bit of struggling grey matter, that it wouldn't be a simple process. It'd be messy, ugly, chaotic. And this thing that is "America" would cease to be. What would come out on the other end is, would be I fear, anyone's guess.

And so I come back to having to face this f'd up mess through the political machinery.

Have you ever thought about running for political office, Steve? (and yes, I'm actually serious)

 

[wrightme43]

I am too much of a jerk. LOL Seriously though.

I know what the results would be.
The absolute destruction of our way of life, most likely a violent dictatorship, or the carving of our country into pieces by other governments that come in and sweep up the broken pieces. Or a UN puppet government.

We just may succede what do you think 10%-20% chance we could succede and keep the union intact?

We need a group of men like Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Washington instead we have P-didy, Al Gore, and Brittney.

Suxxors.

 

[wrightme43]

I am afraid what we are going to really end up with is the collapse of our monetary system, the shutdown of the welfare state, the ceaseing of police services, the shutdown of our power grid, and a lack of food in the dark stores.

Damn thats a bleak picture.

When the smart guys are reccomending the bank of Sealy Posterpedic there is a problem.

You guys know my views on Obama. Again I KNOW the president is not really able to do a dang thing.

Hell maybe I am a rightwing nutjob. Then again so were all the guys that fought againt tyranny in the past. Wanna know how worried I am? I am spending 10-20$ of my food budget every payday on ammo. Hope I dont need it, but damnit what if I do?????????

If people are hungry they get real violent, real quick. In reality we have almost 20% unemployment. The news here in Bowling Green says we are doing great. You drive around though and there are all these empty houses with for sale signs and preforclousure signs, and the older peoples houses have way to many cars parked in front with way to many kids toys in the front yards.
My apt/townhouse complex is empty. For rent signs everywhere. The sherrifs keep showing up to move people out.
Where the hell are these people going???????
What are they eating?
How many of them have kids that need to eat?

Go down to your local gun shop and talk to them.
Story after story of older couples coming in the buy thier very FIRST gun.
Talked to a lady the does the CCDW class here two days ago. She is travelling county to county giving the class at 70$ a person. She has groups over over 100 people prepaid and is trying to figure out how to split the classes up so they can all get done quickly in different counties.

People are worried and nervous.
What about Detroit? What about Philly? How about Atlanta? If I lived there I would walk out if I had to.

I am worried. I believe we are closest to a revolutionary war since the war between the states. That was only a civil war, both groups wanted to continue to use the constition only differing on states rights. It was freaking horrible. More Americans died than in all of WWI WWII Korea and Vietnam. Many more crippled, and huge amounts of horror, starvation, and destruction of homes.

This is serious stuff here.

I dont like it.

 

[mstewar1]

Yes, things are bad. And I don't have a wonderful little girl who depends on me. I only have a cat and four houseplants. I can (only) empathize as a fellow disenfranchised American.

I didn't vote for Obama either. I voted Libertarian. I would've voted for Ron Paul if he'd have made it to the ticket. Instead there was only McPain and Barbie. Sorry, they just frightened the f out of me -- yes, they frightened me more than Obama. I did not feel that I had a good option. I voted Libertarian more out of protest than from some belief that there was a hint of a shadow of a glimmer of a speck of hope that anyone other than a candidate from the "big two" could or would win.

And finding myself presented with those kinds of options, when I find myself believing that casting my vote for, essentially, "none of the above" makes sense, I just feel gutted.

We need people who are willing to govern ethically, free from special interests; government that acts in accordance with the constitution. I don't know if that's ever going to happen in my lifetime. I seriously have my doubts.

I may, at turns, feel despondent and angry, but I refuse to let this crap beat me down. And I think you're of a like constitution -- I certainly don't think you're a jerk. Right-wing wingnut, the jury's still out there...

Trin can't eat bullets, so don't go too crazy there. And yes, I'm sure she's a heck of a shot.

I don't know that I've made a point in this post, just trying to say that I, too, am frustrated and scared, more than a little pissed, but determined to seek to understand and hold myself to some sort of standard for my behaviour, as I know you are.

 

[wrightme43]

LOL nope we just are eating alot more hamburger and chicken or roasts I can get on sale and cut into three pieces to freeze. No porkchops or nice cuts of beef.

I hope and pray it doesnt come to the point where I need the ammo. I hope beyond hope that I look back in two or 5 years and think well that was a waste lets go target shooting with the extra.

Is it crazy to prepare for the worst case and hope for the best? Nope not a bit. I hate this place I live in now. Its undefendable from any intent person, and there is no nearby source of water or wild food. I need to move as soon as possible and can not afford it yet. Hopefully soon.

 

[hardway]

We need people who are willing to govern ethically, free from special interests; government that acts in accordance with the constitution.

This is an impossible goal. Like the utopian socialist ideal, it flies in the face of human character and experience.
Humans act out of self interest, governments are made up of humans, governments act out of self interest.

 

[mstewar1]

This is an impossible goal. Like the utopian socialist ideal, it flies in the face of human character and experience.
Humans act out of self interest, governments are made up of humans, governments act out of self interest.

I don't wholly disagree with you. I didn't say that I thought it was possible. But instead said it's what we need. The question, to me, is how do we tweak the system we have so that we can get money out of politics and get back to a government that does more than pay lip service to the constitution?

Is that an impossibility?

And don't get me started on the whole "accountability" thing that everyone's tossing about these days. Just because you're putting something up on a web page somewhere doesn't mean that you're suddenly giving me the means to hold you accountable for your actions. (and I don't mean *you* hardway) I'll still get the same vapid form email from some junior staffer if I've got a beef with something...

 

[hardway]

how do we tweak the system we have so that we can get money out of politics and get back to a government that does more than pay lip service to the constitution?

Is that an impossibility?

Yes, it is. It is not in the interests of government (the people that make it up) to self limit. A constitution is by definition limiting, so government will attempt to expand it's authority beyond the limits imposed in the constitution.

 

[wrightme43]

I do believe our three body system with checks and balances is the most valid and functional form of government yet invented. It can work, it has worked for what in historical terms is a good long time. We have had the most prosperous, safest, and best country in the world for quite a while.

Mankind can act in the groups best intrest. It is not a socialist ideal. It is actually possible to help yourself while helping others.

I am not so cynical that I do not believe that is so. There is nothing wrong with profit, there is not a thing in the world wrong with it.

A government of the people for the people can work. Ours is very bloated and is being used as a way to milk the workers and feed the sweet cream to those that have the money to buy the favor, and give the skim milk to those that will be grateful enough to put the bastards back in power.

Hence the hanging every one of the SOBs and starting over.

 

[dako81]

I do believe our three body system with checks and balances is the most valid and functional form of government yet invented. It can work, it has worked for what in historical terms is a good long time. We have had the most prosperous, safest, and best country in the world for quite a while.

......

Yea, well the founding fathers designed it with checks and balances in hopes of creating a system where the branches would limit each other's powers. The idea was that they'd all work against each other. They didn't, however, believe that the three branches would all collude together to enhance their powers collectively.

They did.

This is the problem.

 

[hardway]

Mankind can act in the groups best intrest. It is not a socialist ideal. It is actually possible to help yourself while helping others.

I am not so cynical that I do not believe that is so. There is nothing wrong with profit, there is not a thing in the world wrong with it.

You are correct, this is not a socialist idea. It's the division of labor, or the market, and it is the antithesis of socialism.
Humans act in their own interests, but that doesn't mean that their interests are incompatible with each other, a win/lose, all or nothing situation.
In fact, each one of us, doing what we are best prepared to make a living doing, trading our goods and services amongst ourselves, using our profits as we each see fit, has been so mutually beneficial that it has lifted us to the extremely high standard of living we all enjoy today.
I know we may not feel like we're living high on the hog, especially these days, but historically speaking, we are.
The fact that we have the time, the computers and the internet connections (not to mention the motorcycles) to sit around and discuss this stuff is proof.
I just tend to think we've done it in spite of government, not because of it.

 

[wrightme43]

HOLY SMOKES we are up to 9.09% in favor of not hanging every one of them.

That is actually better than congress' approval rating of less than 6%.

I want a recount. LOL LOL LOL :spank: