Connection from flasher to starter relay

[BillyShore]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and have searched far and wide for an answer to this problem.

I have a 1988 FZ600.

When I push the starter button, the engine won't turn over (the oil light comes on--nothing else happens).

I've traced this to the flasher box. From the flasher box (relay?) a blue/white wire comes out and grounds the Starter Relay which triggers the starter.

I proved this by buying another flasher and replacing it.

While working on other issues with my carbs, the bike started for a minute. When I killed it and tried to start again the flasher was blown again.

Two questions here:
1. What would cause the flasher to blow? A bad regulator/rectifier pushing excess power back? It doesn't seem a common problem.
2. What if I just ran my own wire from the start button directly to the Starter Relay and bypassed the flasher box? I've bypassed the stand switch and clutch switch for ease. I don't want to start a fire or anything but I don't see a fuse in line anywhere. There has to be a reason the Starter Relay is switched here... is it just for the stand/clutch switches?

Here's the wiring diagram.

 

[Motogiro]

:welcome:to the forum! Sorry your image had to be removed because we respect copyright. I may have a copy of that manual and if so will get back to you very soon.
I doubt your flasher relay has anything to do with your starter relay. Some a manufacturers will include a flasher relay in addition to another relay as one assembly and that may be identified in the circuit as the flasher relay. It may be a starter interrupt/cutout relay that is in the same assembly. If that specific circuit is a starter interrupt only circuit there can be a cheap work around but I don't like to bypass safety protocol. These interrupt/cutouts are usually operated by switches at the clutch, side stand and neutral safety switch. If everything is operating you should be able to start the bike in neutral. Try starting the bike in neutral with the clutch lever pulled it and the side stand in the up position.

I will see if I can find a schematic to trouble shoot your problem or you may send me contact information via private messaging here on the forum.

 

[BillyShore]

Sorry about the image. I wasn't thinking about copyright.

I appreciate the reply Motogiro.

When I was originally tracking down the issue, I disabled the safety features in order to ensure that they were not cutting off the power. The engine runs fine in neutral with the kickstand down before the flasher relay blows. I've confirmed power coming in to the relay from all relevant parts. I agree, the safety features exist for a reason, but this was a temporary measure for troubleshooting.

The engine kill switch connects to flasher relay (to keep it from starting) and also to the digital ignitor (to kill the engine if it is running).

Besides the indicator lights/brake lights and the kill switch, the flasher relay connects to the starter relay and the pickup coil.

The flasher relay has blown twice, but only after the engine was actually running (I've had carb and spark issues). This leads me to believe that it has to do with a surge coming from the engine charging system that is engaged once it is running.

Since the pickup coil connects directly to the flasher relay (only one pin away from the starter relay pin, I might add) it makes me think the pickup coil could be the issue. Especially since I'm not blowing any fuses. But I"m not 100% sure what the pickup coil does, so I don't know if power would be traveling back to the flasher relay. I would think that if a power surge/short was coming from the main power then a fuse would blow before the flasher relay.

 

[Motogiro]

Sorry about the image. I wasn't thinking about copyright.

I appreciate the reply Motogiro.

When I was originally tracking down the issue, I disabled the safety features in order to ensure that they were not cutting off the power. The engine runs fine in neutral with the kickstand down before the flasher relay blows. I've confirmed power coming in to the relay from all relevant parts. I agree, the safety features exist for a reason, but this was a temporary measure for troubleshooting.

The engine kill switch connects to flasher relay (to keep it from starting) and also to the digital ignitor (to kill the engine if it is running).

Besides the indicator lights/brake lights and the kill switch, the flasher relay connects to the starter relay and the pickup coil.

The flasher relay has blown twice, but only after the engine was actually running (I've had carb and spark issues). This leads me to believe that it has to do with a surge coming from the engine charging system that is engaged once it is running.

Since the pickup coil connects directly to the flasher relay (only one pin away from the starter relay pin, I might add) it makes me think the pickup coil could be the issue. Especially since I'm not blowing any fuses. But I"m not 100% sure what the pickup coil does, so I don't know if power would be traveling back to the flasher relay. I would think that if a power surge/short was coming from the main power then a fuse would blow before the flasher relay.

How do you know the flasher is blown? Keep in mind that a safety switch may be run in NO. or NC. Normally open or normally closed. So if you bypass them? I would check the switch operation. This will make a few things obvious. It's go, no go operation and it's NO/NC mode. Do you have a decent meter to measure voltage at the battery? This will show you what the charging voltage is. I know there is a Zener diode in the FZ6 starter/cutoff safety assembly and this might be what what the zener is for, acting to crowbar the the cutout assembly to stop the engine during an over voltage scenario. I found the schematic for your bike and they don't break down that integrated flasher assembly making a little more study time for me. Unfortunately I have to head out to put out fires today so won't get time till later tonight to get back to this.

 

[BillyShore]

How do you know the flasher is blown? Keep in mind that a safety switch may be run in NO. or NC. Normally open or normally closed. So if you bypass them? I would check the switch operation. This will make a few things obvious. It's go, no go operation and it's NO/NC mode. Do you have a decent meter to measure voltage at the battery? This will show you what the charging voltage is. I know there is a Zener diode in the FZ6 starter/cutoff safety assembly and this might be what what the zener is for, acting to crowbar the the cutout assembly to stop the engine during an over voltage scenario. I found the schematic for your bike and they don't break down that integrated flasher assembly making a little more study time for me. Unfortunately I have to head out to put out fires today so won't get time till later tonight to get back to this.

No worry on the speed-to-reply. :thumbup: This has been on-going for several weeks for me and I won't be able to get back to it until after the weekend.

Here's my analysis path so far:
1. Bought the bike on craigslist, not running, with a ton of spare parts.
2. Before I realized there was any cutoff at the side-stand (previous bikes have all been early 70's), I attempted to start it with a new battery in neutral with the clutch pulled. Bike turned over but wouldn't fire.
3. Ignition coils were the first problem (no resistance), so I replaced those with some with too much resistance (stupid me) and got the bike to run for about 20 seconds before something blew and the bike stopped. The ignition fuse had blown.
4. Replaced the ignition fuse and replaced the ignition coils with some that were within spec, but the bike wouldn't even engage the starter. Just makes the oil light come on when I push the button.
5. Replaced the starter relay (because there was no 'click')... but still no starter engagement from the button.
6. Confirmed the button worked (& cleaned it) by testing the switch. Found both cutoff switches and paired them (with themselves, not each other)... even though the bike had already been running.
7. Tested voltage in many places. Finally came to the flasher relay which has power going into it, but not coming out of it to the starter relay. As I said, applying ground to the starter relay makes it engage. I have no voltage coming out of the flasher relay.
8. I can jump the starter relay directly and it works just fine (ruling out the starter relay)

The #1 reason I believe it to be the flasher relay is that I replaced it, and it had voltage coming out to the starter relay (until I push the start button, which grounded it as it should). So, I hooked it all up and it turned over. A few minutes later, it started. This is with the kickstand down, and the bike in neutral--clutch not engaged. It could be something else--a coincidence isn't out of the realm of possibility, but I'm not sure why replacing the flasher relay would make it work again in that case.

After running for a minute (and getting me all excited), I shut it off to adjust the carbs. Went to start it again, and I'm back to where I was before I replaced the relay. No power coming out of the flasher relay to the starter relay.

So, I realized I missed a question before I replaced the flasher relay. When I found out it was bad, I didn't ask myself "WHY did this relay go bad?"

By the way, all the signals still work. So, it is just an integrated flasher with cutoff stuff grouped into it as you suggested.

As to the diode, I know there is one there, I'm not exactly sure it's purpose.