Gear changing issue

[Zealadin]

Ok I had a quick look and couldn't see any similar threads to what I'm about to ask but here is my situation:

I got my bike about a month ago, its a new 2008 model that had something like 5kilometres on the clock.
I've ridden is below the 6k revs for the first 600k's and am now keeping below 8k revs until I hit 1000 (at 900 now), I kept the engine from sitting at a set revs as adviced and have been very careful.

However I've been finding somewhat of a worrying issue...

Its only happened a few times but as I come to a stop at a set of lights, with the throttle closed, rear and front brakes on, clutch FULLY in, downshifting from second gear into first I sometimes get... well the only way to describe it is the noise and sensation of it not changing down smoothly.
I am not all that technical but heres how I would describe what I am hearing and feeling:
One gear is moving fast, and another gear is moving slowly and trying to engage and is bounced off the faster moving gear.
It doesn't change down, and then I need to -very- firmly downshift and it works fine.
At this point the bike is generally at very low rev's with the clutch fully in (between 1-2k revs I would say)

At first I thought I might not be fulling engaging the clutch (pulling it in all the way) and that might be causing the problem, since I'm used to a lighter clutch, but for the last two weeks I have kept an eye out and its happened twice and I've been 100% sure that the clutch is as pulled in as it goes.

My second thought is that I'm not putting enough force into downshifting into first (since nuetral is in between) but it also doesn't end up in nuetral.
I have not had this issue in any other gear (just second down to first) in any other situation, but its worrying.

I'm due for the first service in 100km's (probably next week since I don't have alot of time to ride at the moment) and I want to know whether I'm doing something wrong, and what I should ask the dealer when I take it in.

Does this sound serious (it doesn't happen often but its a horrible feeling and unpleasant sound) and if I'm doing something wrong I want to avoid doing it again, and also want to make sure its not some other issue so that I can get the dealer to... well deal with it, asap.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

Could be the incorrect engine oil? What's the condition of the oil? Is it a dark & nasty color?
What about the clutch cable tension? How much freeplay does your clutch lever have?
How about the gear change rods? You know the rods connected to the foot lever? Are any external parts loose?

If you still have the problem after checking the above troubleshootings, simply bring up the problem with your dealer on your next visit.

I doubt it's a serious issue, because I've used some VERY crunchy clutches in my time (Kawasaki ZX-14). Don't worry, your engine isn't going to explode or anything. Keep us informed about the situation.

 

[Zealadin]

Well as far as I know its brand new, but its obviously been sitting at the dealer a while (slight rust just visible on the bar end bolts)
Is it possible they changed the oil between me buying it and picking it up, and maybe put the wrong stuff in? (had the oggynobs/sliders and a screen put on during that time)
Or that the oil was bad from being left so long?

I was going to check what they would put in it for the first service and make sure it was something good, but also don't want to look like an idiot and turn up saying whats happening only to be told I'm doing it all wrong and its my fault (would rather know THAT info in advance)

 

[Wolfman]

quite a lot of people have experienced issues changing from first to second on the fz6, and it normally seems to be when the bike is new, I am one of them.

I put it down to the Yamaha gearbox being quite tight when new, and the need to be very positive with gear changes. Have also found that lifting your toe completely off the gear shift lever between shifts between first and second.. This takes any load off the clutch, and enables it to get itself sorted for the next shift.

I don't think the OEM rear sets help much either, as they are rubber mounted and as such cause a bit more freeplay at the lever, than a rigid mounted set of rearsets

Have also noted that decent oil also helps to make things a bit smoother re gear changes...

Does any of that help?

 

[Zealadin]

Awesome well that certainly makes me feel alot better!
I do tend to tap it down quite fast so I'll try and take the pressure off and see how I go!
Is it worth mentioning to the dealer or should I wait for the new oil and see how I go? I'm always happy to go for a ride out to them and they seem pretty good.

 

[Wolfman]

Awesome well that certainly makes me feel alot better!
I do tend to tap it down quite fast so I'll try and take the pressure off and see how I go!
Is it worth mentioning to the dealer or should I wait for the new oil and see how I go? I'm always happy to go for a ride out to them and they seem pretty good.

just don't let em put yamalube in your bike..,.that stuff turns to water after about 2000km's!

 

[Zealadin]

The oil seems ok, I took a quick look at the little dipper, and its a light clear golden, and about midway through the XXX section.
The takeup on the clutch is pretty quick, I barely need to pull it in for a nice clean upshift once I'm moving along in 2nd or 3rd.
I'll have a look at the gear change rods tomorrow, its pitch black down in the garden and freezing cold!

 

[Zealadin]

just don't let em put yamalube in your bike..,.that stuff turns to water after about 2000km's!

Sorry for the double post, I've heard that a few times on the forums, which is why I thought I'd see what they normally put in, I always used motul in my old bike and it was pretty good.
Also the oil change being something I can do myself (being so simple - even the filter change) its something I normally did regularly, yes probably a waste of money at times but it keeps me happy

 

[Boneman]

just don't let em put yamalube in your bike..,.that stuff turns to water after about 2000km's!

Really? Crap, I only use Yamalube.....

 

[Boneman]

I've had this same shifting problem and as previously stated it can have to do with the gearbox/transmission alignment when stopped. Usually rocking the bike forwards or backwards can fix the issue.

A sure fire fix is to just properly downshift while you're riding so you are already in 1st when you come to a stop. :thumbup:

 

[Wolfman]

Really? Crap, I only use Yamalube.....

get that crap out of your engine... I have seen it come out if three bikes now, looking like weak soda! Only reason Yamaha dealers reccomend using it us cause they get it mega cheap and when they sell it on to you, they make a big margin on it!

Motul is the best IMHO

 

[pwcwheels]

Yamalube is great oil and does not turn to water! Water in the oil can come from internal engine condensation, which is caused by the engine warming and cooling in cooler climates! The gear roughness could come from an out of adjustment clutch, FZ6's need the clutch handle adjustment to be rather far out.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

Perhaps it could be that classic problem, where you have to "blip" the throttle in order to rearrange the gears and shift again?

If the engine is on idle, it can sometimes be difficult to switch between multiple gears, even when the clutch is fully pulled. You give the engine a quick rev with the throttle and that rearranges everything for the next gear exchange.

Yamalube engine oil? I doubt that stuff would wreck an engine. It's a YAMAHA product, afterall. However, we ALL know that MOBIL 1 or AMSOIL synthetic is the best oil.

 

[Wolfman]

Yamalube is great oil and does not turn to water! Water in the oil can come from internal engine condensation, which is caused by the engine warming and cooling in cooler climates! The gear roughness could come from an out of adjustment clutch, FZ6's need the clutch handle adjustment to be rather far out.

yes it does turn to water, and in warm climates on very well maintained bikes! have at least 3 very graphic examples that i have seen! this was not water in the oil, this was just plain bad oil! Motul doesnt do it, shell doesnt do it...only Yamalube, that i know of!

but that's just my opinion, and i am sticking to it....

 

[Oscar54]

Its only happened a few times but as I come to a stop at a set of lights, with the throttle closed, rear and front brakes on, clutch FULLY in, downshifting from second gear into first I sometimes get... well the only way to describe it is the noise and sensation of it not changing down smoothly.
I am not all that technical but heres how I would describe what I am hearing and feeling:
One gear is moving fast, and another gear is moving slowly and trying to engage and is bounced off the faster moving gear.
It doesn't change down, and then I need to -very- firmly downshift and it works fine.
At this point the bike is generally at very low rev's with the clutch fully in (between 1-2k revs I would say)

There is nothing wrong with your bike. I could do the same thing consistently by slowly shifting from 2nd to 1st at almost any speed above 3 or 4 mph.

Any JASO-MA conforming oil is fine, it is a matter of preference, just follow at least the recommended change intervals.

Enjoy riding your bike, it's fine, and when you get more experience this issue will happen less frequently.

 

[Zealadin]

Thanks for putting my mind at rest everyone!

 

[Ryan T]

It downshifts easier when you slowing down and not at a full stop. When at a full stop it requires you to let out the clutch a bit and then reengage to down shift.

Hope you get everything worked out.

 

[xgrafcorex]

I have had a similar, if not the same issue with my 07 FZ6. There are now about 3800 miles on my bike...I bought it with 3396. The other day I was going pretty fast and downshifted a few times (a little too quickly I guess) and when I was going from second to first, I heard what I think to be the same sound...like gear teeth not lining up properly and hitting each other. It happened that first time and I chalked it up to be going a little fast to be going into first...like how my car won't let me shift into first until I'm going really slow. Today it happened again and I was going really slow as I approached a red light.

From time to time I also have a little trouble getting down into 1st at a complete stop. It's pretty rare but has happened probably 3 or 4 times in the two weeks I've had the bike. Typically turning the bike off and then back on will remedy the problem and allow me to leave second or neutral to get into first...sometimes I have to go to second from neutral and THEN I can get down to first.

I'm approaching 4000 miles here, which will happen this week for sure, and then I'm taking the bike in to be serviced...I'll be sure to mention my troubles to the guys at the shop. I hope it's nothing serious!

 

[clunk]

I haven't heard the grinding teeth, but I've certainly had the issue where it wouldn't shift from neutral to first at a stoplight (made for some pretty worrisome moments w/ traffic behind me). As a result, I tend to get down into first before coming to a stop and leave it in gear as I wait for green (which is actually the smarter way to sit at a light in case you need to move quickly).

 

[xgrafcorex]

I haven't heard the grinding teeth, but I've certainly had the issue where it wouldn't shift from neutral to first at a stoplight (made for some pretty worrisome moments w/ traffic behind me). As a result, I tend to get down into first before coming to a stop and leave it in gear as I wait for green (which is actually the smarter way to sit at a light in case you need to move quickly).

99.9% of the time I sit at lights in first gear with the clutch in...but every now and then I won't make it all the way down to first if I am slowing down from a decent speed. That issue has also occurred when I'm leaving my parking lot here at the apartment. Sometimes I leave it in first, other times I leave it in neutral since I always wind up backing out of my spot anyway.

I might try switching over to some AMSOIL full synthetic. The previous owner (which seemed to take great care of the bike as it was and still is in outstanding shape) used partial synthetic. Other than that, I plan on mentioning the problem to the guys at this local shop when I get the bike serviced next. I hope I don't wind up with a big bill though...have been paying the bike down, as well as just recently spent about a grand on parts for my car! Throw in other things like premium gas for both vehicles, insurance, bills, food, etc. and I'm getting a lighter wallet by the day!