Hardest technique to master

[chubby1965]

i know this is the lady's section... and i'm not misti...
but we have a few hills around here. i too am short and can't flat foot the bike. i have to stop on my tiptoes. here's what i do when on an incline.

- come to a stop in first gear squeezing clutch and front brake.
- slowly let out the clutch
- at the friction zone you will feel the rear of the bike start to "lift" and the front start to "dive"
- at this point i can usually let off the front brake and the bike will stay put
- to take off start to give a little throttle and let the clutch out a little more

it takes a little bit of practice but after a while you'll get it. if you can find a loading dock at a shop/factory or behind a store they are a great place to practice.

i look forward to hearing if misti has a better technique to help us shorter people out.

I find it easier and safer on an incline to put rear brake on then rev slightly,Start letting the clutch out whilst brake still on as you feel the clutch start to bite slowly release the brake whilst giving it a bit more gas to prevent stalling.
This was how we were taught to do for the motorcycle test.
I would say holding the bike on the front brake would make it unstable.
Always seams to work for me

 

[Monica A]

This bike has forced me to learn something new (or at least forgotten)..
I'm used to riding bikes with plenty of torque right off of idle.. The FZ isn't that bike.:tard:

This weekend I was out "playing" and I got into a section of road with some pretty tight corners (10mph) and they were also uphill, with reducing radius.

2 times, I got into the middle of the corner, looking way ahead and ready for the bike to follow where I was looking, only to have the bike just go bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. I was in a gear too high, and around 3K rpm.. I stomped on the shifter, and the bike rewarded me with acceleration, but my timing had been screwed up and the guy behind me was riding a FJR1300 with no shortage of low end torque.. ..

I too have had this problem. I love my FZ but the only problem I have is the low-end torque. For example, I was following my husband and son through a mountain pass to get to Yosemite and we hit a few 10 mph hairpin curves on a steep uphill. On the first corner, I was in 2nd gear and rolled on the throttle after the apex and nothing. I ended up in the oncoming lane trying to downshift to 1st to get up the hill. It was embarassing. Luckily it was a little used road and no oncoming traffic. I was prepared to downshift to 1st before the next 15 mph corner but there was no signage and boom another 10mph hairpin. I yelled at my husband on our intercomm to warn me because my bike didn't have any torque coming out of the turn. He didn't have any problems on his VFR800 and my son didn't either on his SV650s. UGH!!! We made it luckily. Coming home I was prepared, but going down hill on the outside lane is easier.

In general, corners at any speed to the left are easy for me. Corners to the right are hard for me. I'm left-handed. Is that it? Corners to the right at a decent speed are OK but slow turns always are difficult for me. I can't regulate the throttle and countersteer. Any suggestions?

 

[Erci]

In general, corners at any speed to the left are easy for me. Corners to the right are hard for me. I'm left-handed. Is that it? Corners to the right at a decent speed are OK but slow turns always are difficult for me. I can't regulate the throttle and countersteer. Any suggestions?

Can't regulate throttle and countersteer? Do you mean to say you're having a hard time pressing right grip forward without affecting the throttle position?

Make sure you always start with flat wrist position (at closed throttle). You should begin to roll on the throttle when you've completed the press on the grip.

One of the things you can try is to *think* about pulling on left grip instead of pushing right grip. Same steering effect will be accomplished, but maybe that will help you separate steering from throttle input.

Also, if you truly are talking about 10mph turns, this is border-line counter-weight territory. You're not generating enough G-force to lean with the bike at 10mph, so as you initiate the turn with counter-steer and the bike leans to the right, your upper body will need to lean to the left (you can even slide on the seat a bit to the left before you enter the slow-speed right hander).

Finally, work on being in the right gear. If you're on FZ6, it's better to have the revs too high then too low.. if you let them drop to 1.5k - 2k, the bike will definitely not go uphill out of a turn. For super-slow turns, you may have to use friction zone to get the RPMs up.

Think about taking MSF's ARC. It's one thing to read suggestions here, it's another when a professional gives you instructions and corrects you every step of the way to make sure you really get it :thumbup:

 

[Karate.Snoopy]

Think about taking MSF's ARC. It's one thing to read suggestions here, it's another when a professional gives you instructions and corrects you every step of the way to make sure you really get it :thumbup:

You are awesome dude :rockon: always eloquent and precise, much respect for you

PS: Oops Ladies section, sorry for hijacking the thread

 

[LFZ6]

Me too! I was one of the lead riders in our MSF. I had almost aced the test but in the tight U I put a foot down. I was so frustrated. We took the class on 250 cruisers, a really light bike. I have been chicken to try it on my Magna, but I may have to try it on my FZ since it is a bit lighter.

 

[Misti]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean owens
i know this is the lady's section... and i'm not misti...
but we have a few hills around here. i too am short and can't flat foot the bike. i have to stop on my tiptoes. here's what i do when on an incline.

- come to a stop in first gear squeezing clutch and front brake.
- slowly let out the clutch
- at the friction zone you will feel the rear of the bike start to "lift" and the front start to "dive"
- at this point i can usually let off the front brake and the bike will stay put
- to take off start to give a little throttle and let the clutch out a little more

it takes a little bit of practice but after a while you'll get it. if you can find a loading dock at a shop/factory or behind a store they are a great place to practice.

i look forward to hearing if misti has a better technique to help us shorter people out.

I find it easier and safer on an incline to put rear brake on then rev slightly,Start letting the clutch out whilst brake still on as you feel the clutch start to bite slowly release the brake whilst giving it a bit more gas to prevent stalling.
This was how we were taught to do for the motorcycle test.
I would say holding the bike on the front brake would make it unstable.
Always seams to work for me

I understand how being short can be an issue when riding! With all my training and with my comfort level and ability to ride different bikes, the most difficult part for me is STILL slow speed maneuvers and stopping. I rarely touch the ground with both feet and actually find trying to stop with just tip toes down very daunting. Instead of trying to put both feet on the ground the technique I've adopted is the butt shuffle, one foot firmly planted technique.

Basically when I'm getting ready to come to a stop I scan the ground for any potholes or dips in the road, make sure my foot will be placed on firm ground (no gravel, sand etc) and shuffle my butt to the left side of the bike and put my left foot firmly on the ground. In order to make me even more stable I then twist my hips into the bike and almost face the middle of the motorcycle. This makes me feel very planted and gives me a great deal of strength and support. I can then rest my right foot on the rear brake.

If I need to park the bike or move it I get off and walk it

When I was racing AMA my biggest fear was that I would drop the bike on the starting grid!

Hope that helps,
Misti

 

[LFZ6]

Since I haven't had the opportunity to ride any twisties yet...the things that I have issues with is holding a steady speed, and I am paranoid turning corners like intersections since I know several people who laid them down. I am just really cautious. When my son or daughters bf is following me it drives them crazy that I go slow when turning in an inresection.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sixpackgal28]

I'd have to say taking off from a stop on an incline. I'm a bit short, so on an incline I'd rather have both feet down. But on a steep incline, I need to use the rear brake and throttle to prevent from rolling back. My hands aren't big enough to use the front brake and throttle simultaneously while opening the throttle (closing is no problem). I need more practice w/ it, but where I live is a very flat area and no particularly challenging inclines. Visited an area w/ a steep incline and stalled the bike twice trying to take off at a stop light. Better than the alternative of rolling back, though! Luckily the car behind me was patient enough not to honk at me while I struggled.

This is going to be my next "training" !

 

[lilredrocket]

Hey Ladies,

Just wondering what you each find is the hardest motorcycle riding technique, or part of riding, to master? Does it have to do with cornering, shifting, throttle control, body position? What do you find is a hard technique to get right?

Misti

I know this post has been around... For while... What can I say I'm a slow reader....but...
One tough one was riding gravel... A number of years ago I learned a trick from a Beemer rider to give speed and I would float on the top... Gentle acceleration gets you out of the gravel... Then you just let it ride!!... Thank you "Gator"

 

[FinalImpact]

Ladies section I know - one little trick to help both take-offs and low speed cornering is practice in a parking lot.

In a deserted or low traffic parking lot find an open area with a large grid of painted parking space lines. Follow the painted line inwards to the depth of the parking space and turn 180 degrees OR to the next line over and follow that line out, turn 180 degrees and REPEAT cycle, in and out until out of space and then turn back and do it from the other direction. You can also weave every other line if it's too tight, but use it as a GIANT continuous switchback. Do circles at the end, switch directions, etc. As you practice trail braking you will find you can turn sharper, lean more, slip the clutch, and really build your slow speed maneuvering skills! As you improve, tighten the radius and try to not skip any of the spaces or put your feet down.

Doing this effectively and without skipping space will have you trail braking, slipping the clutch, leaning, stripping chicken from your tires and building confidence all while getting a good work out!

What I find is if I quit doing it for a couple months I get rusty and put a foot down. If I do it once a month or so making at least 4 down and back passes (15 cage spaces), my feet stay up and I can go pretty briskly.

It's good practice. Give it a try! >> Gentlemen TOO!

 

[Monica A]

I don't know where I read it (I guess I'm reading too much about motorcycle riding now) but the author suggested either pulling on one side of the handlebars or pushing on the other - not pushing and pulling with both arms. I tried this recently and it worked!!! I am so much more confident in corners now. Left and right hand corners at any speed. So, when I come up to slow right-hand turns (15 mph or intersections, etc.) I regulate the throttle with my right hand and pull with my left hand. I go around the corner smoothly. Love it!!! The author stated that when you pushed and pulled at the same time, your arms were actually fighting each other and you are less effective in your attempt to turn. A word of caution, when you first try this you are more likely to lean over more than usual. The author stated he did it on a track and ended up going off the track into the corner because he turned so much. I feel more confident now in my cornering. Also, keep your elbows bent and drop your inside shoulder a bit.

 

[jeadra]

I don't know where I read it (I guess I'm reading too much about motorcycle riding now) but the author suggested either pulling on one side of the handlebars or pushing on the other - not pushing and pulling with both arms. I tried this recently and it worked!!! I am so much more confident in corners now. Left and right hand corners at any speed. So, when I come up to slow right-hand turns (15 mph or intersections, etc.) I regulate the throttle with my right hand and pull with my left hand. I go around the corner smoothly. Love it!!! The author stated that when you pushed and pulled at the same time, your arms were actually fighting each other and you are less effective in your attempt to turn. A word of caution, when you first try this you are more likely to lean over more than usual. The author stated he did it on a track and ended up going off the track into the corner because he turned so much. I feel more confident now in my cornering. Also, keep your elbows bent and drop your inside shoulder a bit.

Keith Code!! That may have been where you had read about countersteering.
We happened to be at the Barber Museum one year when he was holding his superbike school out on the track....made me wish I had known about it further ahead of time. I've read a few of his books. The guy has a slew of riding wisdom accumlated over decades of riding, and his techniques actually work.
Superbike School :: Keith's Corner

Countersteering is a technique I use all the time in the tight twisty roads, that and corner entry techniques...the faster I go, the more I get it....and the more I stay off the front brake in corners if I need to slow down.

As far as techniques I have trouble grasping, I tend to clench once I hit gravel.
Going fast and maintaining control in off-road trails and gravel roads always feels like trying to contain an explosion. I feel like I know I'm gonna crash, it's just a matter of time. It probably has more to do with the fact that it's much harder for me to look that far ahead on the trail or corner and plan what I'm going to do, which is rarely a problem on the street.

 

[Monica A]

Keith Code!! That may have been where you had read about countersteering.
We happened to be at the Barber Museum one year when he was holding his superbike school out on the track....made me wish I had known about it further ahead of time. I've read a few of his books. The guy has a slew of riding wisdom accumlated over decades of riding, and his techniques actually work.
Superbike School :: Keith's Corner

I did read Keith Code's Total Control so that was probably it. I would LOVE to go to his superbike school.

Your gravel issue is real. My son was practicing in the high school parking lot today waiting for his friends to finish up with band practice. They were going to ride to lunch together. He was going 25-30 mph making a wide arching turn. His front tire hit some gravel and the front end washed out. Broke the front taillight, rear brake lever, front brake lever, and dented/scrapped exhaust. His frame slider saved his tank etc. He has been riding dirt bikes since he was 5 years old. He has no problem in the loose stuff, but this was beyond anyone's ability to save. Luckily, his gear saved him from any injury. His hip is sore and he has a couple little scrapes on his forearm and knee. Looks like we will be buying new Kevlar jeans and mesh jacket. They were scratched/torn, but I would rather that than road rash.

 

[jeadra]

Eeep! Glad that he's okay, but that sucks!! So glad to hear he was wearing gear, especially at his age....most kids don't.

Everytime I see gravel in a corner, I clench a bit...and gravel parking lots tend to elicit the same reaction.
On the TW, it's not really a problem, but I've had a few mishaps on previous bikes in gravel. One involved fracturing a few bones in my foot, so it makes me a little leery....

 

[MG-242]

I'll have to go back and re-read Keith's book and the chapter on turning, but if I remember correctly he suggests doing both, pulling and pushing and compares it to having power steering. (Misti probably knows ) This may also have a place for doing a very quick swerve. But, I could see a novice rider having difficulties doing it and giving up some of the small muscle control required for throttle application.

For riding on the gravel I think what you are desribing is one of Keith's Survival Reactions (SR's) and having too firm of a grip on the bars. That will make the bike feel like it is ready to crash. Lighten up, and keep your head and eyes up. And most importantly, practice it so that when time comes and the pavement ends, it's really no big deal.

For the parking lot crash, I first would ask where he was looking and my guess was not far enough ahead and then focused on the gravel patch. That would do it.

I've had more than my share of crashes and after each, I always evaluate every aspect to figure what I did wrong or what I could have or should have done making it a valuable learning experience.

 

[Monica A]

Regarding parking lot crash. He was doing a fairly tight sweeping turn - basically a continuous circle. We have snow here in Reno and the school district sands the snot out of the parking lots every year and then never cleans it up. He is pretty skilled (riding in the dirt since age 5) at riding so I really think he couldn't do much about it. If he had hit the same gravel/sand in a regular curve on the street I am sure he would have been fine.

We replaced all broken parts last weekend and we are all set to take a nice long group ride this Sunday.

 

[Monica A]

Eeep! Glad that he's okay, but that sucks!! So glad to hear he was wearing gear, especially at his age....most kids don't.


Everytime I see gravel in a corner, I clench a bit...and gravel parking lots tend to elicit the same reaction.
On the TW, it's not really a problem, but I've had a few mishaps on previous bikes in gravel. One involved fracturing a few bones in my foot, so it makes me a little leery....

Yeah, I was pretty proud of him. We wear all the gear all the time even if riding to the store close by. I cringe every time I see someone riding with just a brain bucket. We unfortunately had several fatal accidents on motorcycles this weekend. Made me wonder what kind of gear they had on? Cruisers around here never have any gear on besides "brain buckets" and about half the sport bikes just have helmets on.

I am also especially careful about gravel in corners. I know how you feel. Fortunately, I haven't gone down - yet.

Regarding reading - I think I was reading in Lee Parks "Total Control" not Keith Code about pushing or pulling not both when countersteering. Try it, it works! For some reason, I am better at looking through the corner too. Even though I have read Keith Code's book too. Again, I've just read too much to keep it straight. lol A great beginner book is David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling". He does an excellent job at explaining basic skills. Love it!!

 

[Misti]

I'll have to go back and re-read Keith's book and the chapter on turning, but if I remember correctly he suggests doing both, pulling and pushing and compares it to having power steering. (Misti probably knows ) This may also have a place for doing a very quick swerve. But, I could see a novice rider having difficulties doing it and giving up some of the small muscle control required for throttle application.

For riding on the gravel I think what you are desribing is one of Keith's Survival Reactions (SR's) and having too firm of a grip on the bars. That will make the bike feel like it is ready to crash. Lighten up, and keep your head and eyes up. And most importantly, practice it so that when time comes and the pavement ends, it's really no big deal.

For the parking lot crash, I first would ask where he was looking and my guess was not far enough ahead and then focused on the gravel patch. That would do it.

I've had more than my share of crashes and after each, I always evaluate every aspect to figure what I did wrong or what I could have or should have done making it a valuable learning experience.

Good idea to re-read Keith's books. There is soooooo much information in them it's impossible to remember it all. I'm constantly re-reading and freshening up

As for counter-steering, either push right to go right or do a combination of push/pull. Whatever works best. The idea of power/pivot steering is to be stable with your lower body by having your knee dug in tight to the cut out of the tank so that you can get a more firm push on the bars. Also, pushing FORWARD and not DOWN on the bars can make a huge difference in how quickly/effectively the bike turns.

Misti

 

[Monica A]

I recently tried leaning out to the side when I am in the twisties. Wow what a difference. I can take corners faster with more control. I couldn't do this last year (my first season). We did some pretty tight switch back corners yesterday. I was keeping up with the boys. Big fun. My hubbie couldn't believe I was in his mirrors when we got through the corners. Ususally he has to slow up and wait for me. Yippee!!! Those tight right turns are easier for me too. The bike isn't leaned over as far and I have good control of the throttle. It's amazing what a lot of seat time will do for your skills. I've done around 8,000 miles this season. We ride for 8 to 10 hours a day on the weekend.

 

[Misti]

I recently tried leaning out to the side when I am in the twisties. Wow what a difference. I can take corners faster with more control. I couldn't do this last year (my first season). We did some pretty tight switch back corners yesterday. I was keeping up with the boys. Big fun. My hubbie couldn't believe I was in his mirrors when we got through the corners. Ususally he has to slow up and wait for me. Yippee!!! Those tight right turns are easier for me too. The bike isn't leaned over as far and I have good control of the throttle. It's amazing what a lot of seat time will do for your skills. I've done around 8,000 miles this season. We ride for 8 to 10 hours a day on the weekend.

Excellent! Sounds like you are going with the bike nicely and letting it do it's thing instead of fighting it. When you allow your body to lean into the direction of the turn it holds it's line much better and you don't have to work so hard.

Here is a question for you, once you have steered the bike into the turn (by pressing on the inside bar) and are leaning with it, do you need to continue to hold pressure on that bar to "maintain the lean"? What would happen if you relaxed your grip and didn't have any pressure on either bar while you were rolling on the gas?

Misti