Just saying you know.

[wrightme43]

"The refusal of King George III to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the REVOLUTION."
-Benjamin Franklin
founding father of the United States of America
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies... if the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprave the people of their prosperity until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson
1743-1826
"I am the most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit.
We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
-Woodrow Wilson
1919


Anybody else think hanging all of congress, the senate, the fed, and treasury would be a good start?

 

[Oscar54]

"The refusal of King George III to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the REVOLUTION."
-Benjamin Franklin
founding father of the United States of America
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies... if the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprave the people of their prosperity until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson
1743-1826
"I am the most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit.
We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
-Woodrow Wilson
1919


Anybody else think hanging all of congress, the senate, the fed, and treasury would be a good start?

NO! Well maybe the Republicans and DLC Democrats!

But from everything you posted, it would seem that the answer should be to hang all the Bankers and nationalize the banking system. Especially since the 350 Billion we already spent is more the the collective market value of these banks, and the Executives are still paying themselves bonuses for not lending our money to us because it is too risky.:squid: And before anyone says "The Government wouldn't run the banking system well.", I say well the Bankers sure did F#%$-it-up good:Flip:, I can't imagine the government doing worse.

These greedy money changers :ban: have run their financial system into the ditch,:don'tknow: and now want you and me to bail them out, but want to be able to keep the billions they paid themselves, that now looks more like theft.:spank:

I know that most of the financial talking heads are running around saying, "Now is not the time to play the blame game, but to save the system!":liar: But that is only because they know that they and the Bankers are to blame and don't want to be held responsible. I say, take the banks (we bought them already) and take all the Bankers assets too, because obviously they didn't earn it honestly.

That is just my most humble opinion of course!

Lew

 

[wrightme43]

ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH


You are missing the point.

They dont need us to bail them out. Congress, Senate, Pres Bush/Obama are bailing people out that took a stupid risk, for a huge reward, then when the risk is stupid and doesnt work, they are turning to the Government to GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY!!!! Your and My Goverenment is doing it.

NATIONALISING THE BANKS IS EXTRAORDINARILY STUPID. Seriously man that is just wrong.

Dont buy the bullcrap. They are stealing from you, your wife, your children, your grand children, your great grand children and their children.

Do you have a 401k? How about someone stealing half of it? Care to go for another 50% in whats left? This is what they are doing now.

They are buying a risk that was taking by banks leveraged at 30-40 to 1, bad risks known bad risks that had no chance of repayment and saying the taxpayers will foot the bill if it fails, and you get the profit if it works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hardway]

Anybody else think hanging all of congress, the senate, the fed, and treasury would be a good start?

Only if we can agree not to replace them, and you can't hang Ron Paul!

 

[wrightme43]

More Ponzi Damnit! - The Market Ticker

 

[dako81]

The banking system is so complex and secretive that most people don't fully understand it, myself included.

All I really understand is that it's a sham, where a single private business has been granted a monopoly on the money system, and they're known as the FED. Who ever named them the FED or Federal Reserve was actually very clever, since their name tricks people to believe that is a government entity.

This fractional reserve lending BS was just a way for banks to make more money. Somehow they got the idea that since they handle all the money, that they should be the richest of everyone. I really don't think they provide a service worth what they make.

IDK I'm just sick of the whole thing. I need to study the government some more, because I've been trying to spend myself out of debt for the last few years, and it hasn't worked. I think I'm missing something...

 

[Nelly]

"The refusal of King George III to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the REVOLUTION."
-Benjamin Franklin
founding father of the United States of America
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies... if the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprave the people of their prosperity until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson
1743-1826
"I am the most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit.
We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
-Woodrow Wilson
1919


Anybody else think hanging all of congress, the senate, the fed, and treasury would be a good start?

How very true those words are now ringing...............................

Nelly

 

[necrotimus]

A brief synapsis of the current banking system.

Yesterday Bank 1 had $40,000. Today:

Bank 1 loaned a guy $10,000 at 5% interest who makes a million dollars a year.

Bank 1 loaned a guy $10,000 at 10% interest who makes $500,000 a year.

Bank 1 loaned a guy $10,000 at 15% interest who makes $100,000 a year.

Bank 1 loaned a guy $10,000 at 25% interest who makes $10,000 a year.

Bank 1's net worth is $45,500.


That isn't exactly correct because banks will also value the loan based on chances of default. So the chances of default for the first one might be 99% the last one might be 70% and using this they place a "real" dollar figure on the loan.

Bank 1 is worried that the two low income borrowers may default so it decides it will pay Bank 2 to assume some of the risk. In these cases Bank 1 will pay Bank 2 money and if the borrower defaults Bank 2 has to cover it. So first they need to evaluate the loans. Here's where the fun begins. 1) Both evaluators probably work off a bonus or comission like pay system. 2) Both groups want the loan to look more attractive than it really is.

Bank 1 wants the loan to look attractive so it doesn't have to pay Bank 2 as much to assume the risk.

Bank 2 wants the loan to look attractive so it doesn't have to devalue the payment Bank 1 gave it by the large risk.

Both evauluators want them to look attractive so they can get nice bonuses.

The deal is done and Bank 2 is paid some money and BOTH banks are overvaluing the worth of the loan.

Bank 2 realizes it has acquired a lot of high risk so it decides it is going to sell some loans to Bank 3.

Bank 3 realizes it has acquired a lot of high risk so it decides..... Bank 4... Bank 5... Bank 6...

Now a lot of borrows start defaulting on loans... Bank 6 doesn't have enough to cover the risk it assumed from 5 who doesn't have enough for 4... 3... 2... 1

What the government is considering purchasing is this debt.

 

[necrotimus]

And to further expand... A lot of people are saying the credit system is bad. The truth is just like anything it is both good and bad.

The credit system allows for faster economic growth because it increases purchasing power. Credit allows the economy to thrive because otherwise people couldn't afford houses until they were 50. Cars, schooling, tvs, video games, food... everything would have to be purchased in the future... not now. This effectively grows the economy faster.

The credit system has been bastardized though. If I have $5 and I take out a loan for $10 my net worth isn't $15. People are spending like they never have to pay the credit back. Hence the unprecedented growth in the economy (and real estate markets) over the past X number of years.

Unfortunately it finally got to the point where enough people weren't paying their credit back that it crashed the entire system. Everyone wants to blame the banks and a lot of it is there fault because as a company they should have known better. However some individuals shouldn't be so fast to point the finger. Everyone who is defaulting on a loan is not blameless. Just like the banks they assumed too much risk.

I have a mortgage, car loan, and two motorcycle loans not to mention a little credit card debt. I took a bath on my house and basically now owe over $120k in unsecured debt. However I will not default because I kept my credit within my risk tolerances. Am I pissed? Your damn right I am, I have lost almost 50% value in my house and my investments.

Now I have to dig myself out of my own mess because I assumed the risk. The banks should have to deal with it and so should the people who are claiming bankruptcy.

If you lost your job due to the aftermath than I feel for you and you deserve something but there are too many people who want a handout who did it to themselves.

 

[dark_isz]

Nice explanation, Necrotimus, but you left out the derivatives like Consolidated Debt Obligations, Credit Default Swaps, and Special Purpose Vehicles.

Also, some of the fault lies with the credit rating agencies that were slapping AAA ratings on the CDO's made of high-risk debt.

I found this article very enlightening, as well as disheartening.

What Cooked the World's Economy?

 

[wrightme43]

Very much so Jay.

There is more though.

They werent asleep at the switch. The SEC, FED, Treasury, Congress, and Senate have been repeatedly told this is going on. They did nothing.

Madoff for example could not of carried out his giant scheme without explicit and intentional help from people in the SEC and Banking industry. NO ONE gets to control that much money on his word.


There is more coming. Billions of dollars in off balance sheet transactions.

We are just being used as food for the rich and powerful. Luckly for us here in the States we still have the ability to overthrow a tyrant government.

Seriously if thru negligence or malice destroyed half the value of your congressmans' retirement you would go to jail for a very long time.
Flip that around and they get reelected.

 

[abraxas]

The best description of their wealth is from a banker himself, Sir Josiah Stamp, at the time in 1927 the 2nd richest man in England and former head of The Bank of England:

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money."

 

[Doorag]

Don't nationalize them. Force them all to be non-profit with salary and bonus caps. Any unused income should be used for charity.

 

[keira]

I have heard this blame game so many places recently, and it all boils down to this: everyone is to blame, and no one wants to be.

The banks should not have taken advantage of consumers the way they did, by making those extremely high-risk loans, approving people for more than they could comfortably afford, and pushing ARMS on homebuyers.

The people should be smarter about debt, keeping it to an absolute minimum. Credit cards are valuable to have in an emergency but should not be a source of funding for everything. Homes should fit comfortably within one person int he couple's salary (or 30% if you live alone). College loans are more difficult, but should be made the priority with other loans (car, motorcycle, etc) not being taken out until this is paid back, or income is such that you won't notice.

No one saves anymore. Savings are in incredibly important part of a successful economy, and too many people who make "comfortable" incomes live paycheck to paycheck wiht no thought for what could happen in the future.

The education system is failing students by not teaching them fiscal responsibility. Occasionally lower-acheiving students will get this training in vocational programs, or "life skills" classes, but high achievers and those who are college bound are less likely tot ake courses that teach them to manage money.

The college and university system is too dang expensive, and forcing people to pay MORE than the recommended "first year's salary" on a 4-year education. Our state university charges it's IN-STATE students almost $20K a year to attend and live on campus (http://admissions.unh.edu/whatsnext/tuitionpaymentsfy.html), meaning for a student who does not get scholarships or grants, they could be paying over $80K in student loans upon graduation, and there are very few jobs that I can think of that pay that to a first-year, entry-level person.

There is a societal epidemic in America that demands immediate gratification at any cost. This is reinforced by busy parents, schools that are not allowed to "parent" kids anymore (not that any want to, I'm just saying), and the internet culture.

There is also a societal epidemic in our country that dos not support taking responsibility for one's actions. People sue McDonald's when they spill coffee on themselves, saying they didn't know it was hot. They stall foreclosure asking banks to prove they owe them the money because they weren't on top of things and trying to find alternate payment methods in hard times. They fire babysitters for disciplining their kids when they are being brats without thinking that they had any part in turning those kids into brats by giving them everything they whine for all the time with no regard to actual needs.

Keep in mind these are all generalizations, and not meant to be personal attacks in any way.

They are also not all-inclusive, but just a quick list about how all of America can have a part of this "blamed" on them - including me! If anyone thinks they are totally without guilt, I would say someone, somewhere could probably find a legitimate way they are contributing to the problem.....

 

[necrotimus]

....sunspots....