Major maintenance: bearings, spark plugs and fork oil

[Carlos840]

Thanks for the drawing FinalImpact. It was clear from your previous explanation but you illustrated it well. I am not sure if I ever bottomed my fork before. Maybe I did and didn't notice. So right now I am still riding with the current setup albeit more cautiously.

Also thank you guys for the input on the suspensions. I have decided to go with Racetech linear .85 or .90Kg/mm, whichever is available. From my readings so far, it would seem that this is a medium-to-firm setup. I'm around 160Lbs and I ride alone 90% of the time. 2 up with the current setup has become progressively more annoying over the last 2 years. The forks keep diving and diving on braking.

I'm don't track but like I said I enjoy leaning when the roads permit. Basically I just want to get rid of the insecure feeling I get from my bike when doing curves. I like my car's suspension to be on the firmer side so I figured my preferences for motorcycle suspension should be the same. I prefer to sacrifice a bit of comfort for the feeling that the tires stay planted on the road at all time. I'm far from being a skilled rider and the Fz6 is my first bike so educated guessing is part of my learning process.

I do hope I will like the new suspension though and I will know in a week if I picked the right firmness.

Personally i would go for .80 Kg/mm or .85Kg/mm!

I weight 180 lbs without gear and i have the racetech .90 springs and they give me perfect free sag to rider sag ratio.

The spring rate has little to do with suspension firmness, that is controlled by the damping, ie the oil weight or the addition of emulators.
Your spring should be chosen depending on your weight and your sag goal, that's it.

Here is the thread i posted when i did my forks, there is a lot of useful information on it:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-performance-mods-section/51901-suspension-setup.html

And this link, which is full of great spring rate info:

Peter Verdone Designs - Motorcycle Springs

And here is the thread i did after adding the emulators and the rear shock:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/53102-final-motorcycle-update.html

By the way, if you can afford it i really recommend the emulators, they are great!

 

[elus1ve]

Thanks for the info! I'm gonna do some more reading later on.

For now though, the order has already been placed for the springs. So I'm going to get either .85 or .90 depending on availability. And no, I can't afford extras at this time so no emulators. I only did the thicker oil which did improve the ride a bit.

Here is a pic of my fork and there is a neat little line that shows how far it compresses. That's was after I did all the maintenance work as posted previously.

Personally i would go for .80 Kg/mm or .85Kg/mm!

I weight 180 lbs without gear and i have the racetech .90 springs and they give me perfect free sag to rider sag ratio.

The spring rate has little to do with suspension firmness, that is controlled by the damping, ie the oil weight or the addition of emulators.
Your spring should be chosen depending on your weight and your sag goal, that's it.

Here is the thread i posted when i did my forks, there is a lot of useful information on it:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-performance-mods-section/51901-suspension-setup.html

And this link, which is full of great spring rate info:

Peter Verdone Designs - Motorcycle Springs

And here is the thread i did after adding the emulators and the rear shock:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/53102-final-motorcycle-update.html

By the way, if you can afford it i really recommend the emulators, they are great!

 

[Carlos840]

Thanks for the info! I'm gonna do some more reading later on.

For now though, the order has already been placed for the springs. So I'm going to get either .85 or .90 depending on availability. And no, I can't afford extras at this time so no emulators. I only did the thicker oil which did improve the ride a bit.

Here is a pic of my fork and there is a neat little line that shows how far it compresses. That's was after I did all the maintenance work as posted previously.

That line doesn't mean much for the moment because the stock spring is dual rate, and although the soft part is very soft, the hard part is very hard!
Meaning there is no way a normal weight rider will use all the fork travel.

I really think .90 will be a lot to much for your weight!

 

[FinalImpact]

Fwiw: you could set the bars aside and drop the springs in yourself. Just get a block under it so the tire is hanging and your set.
You will need a tubing cutter and a tape measure, level up the forks and pull the caps.
Its pretty easy to do w/out taking it back to the shop. Just let all the oil drip off the old springs and drop in the new ones...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

What do you do with the tubing cutter?

 

[FinalImpact]

What do you do with the tubing cutter?

Aftermarket coils are almost always shorter than OEM and will require a longer static spacer. But its a case by case basis so the tubing sent is long and you have to cut the pre-load spacers to the desired length for proper SAG.

 

[elus1ve]

Fwiw: you could set the bars aside and drop the springs in yourself. Just get a block under it so the tire is hanging and your set.
You will need a tubing cutter and a tape measure, level up the forks and pull the caps.
Its pretty easy to do w/out taking it back to the shop. Just let all the oil drip off the old springs and drop in the new ones...

When it comes to something as vital at forks and brakes, I prefer to let someone competent do it. Lets just say I need more experience before touching these parts.

In this case anyway, the mechanic is also changing my tire and brake pads.

But thanks for the suggestion, always useful to know.

 

[elus1ve]

That line doesn't mean much for the moment because the stock spring is dual rate, and although the soft part is very soft, the hard part is very hard!
Meaning there is no way a normal weight rider will use all the fork travel.

I really think .90 will be a lot to much for your weight!

I also did the racetech online calculator on their website and after inputting the bike model and my weight, they recommended a number closer to .85.

Guess I will know soon what springs I am getting exactly. It is sort of a kinder surprise thing with that guy He is not super clear on what he is ordering exactly and sort of come with the parts he think is best for the rider and not what the rider think is best for him. For example I ordered normal ball bearings but he came with roller bearings. I'm suspecting he will be telling me that only the .85 was available. The only condition I gave him is that I don't want progressive springs.

I will post back what spring I got and do some measurements like I have read in the other threads. And of course I will report back on how it works for me.

 

[FinalImpact]

I also did the racetech online calculator on their website and after inputting the bike model and my weight, they recommended a number closer to .85.

Guess I will know soon what springs I am getting exactly. It is sort of a kinder surprise thing with that guy He is not super clear on what he is ordering exactly and sort of come with the parts he think is best for the rider and not what the rider think is best for him. For example I ordered normal ball bearings but he came with roller bearings. I'm suspecting he will be telling me that only the .85 was available. The only condition I gave him is that I don't want progressive springs.

I will post back what spring I got and do some measurements like I have read in the other threads. And of course I will report back on how it works for me.

So here is one little detail that might make it worthwhile to venture on you're own. Letting someone else throw the springs in without you present is huge gamble that it comes even close to right for you the rider of that bike. Why do I say this? Because the outcome without your a replacement of you in MASS, may NOT achieve improved results over the failed ones if not installed correctly.

Is this a shop a place you can be there and help in the setup? If so, bring your gear and force the issue as you need to set the SAG for you and your weight or someone within 10 - 15 lbs of you. Now I'm not saying you shop doesn't care but most shops tend to want to get things done and this is not process one speeds through if you want it right.

If you want more info ping one of use and we'll give you some insight on setup or read the spring install instructions. Likely a PDF online.

 

[Carlos840]

So here is one little detail that might make it worthwhile to venture on you're own. Letting someone else throw the springs in without you present is huge gamble that it comes even close to right for you the rider of that bike. Why do I say this? Because the outcome without your a replacement of you in MASS, may NOT achieve improved results over the failed ones if not installed correctly.

Is this a shop a place you can be there and help in the setup? If so, bring your gear and force the issue as you need to set the SAG for you and your weight or someone within 10 - 15 lbs of you. Now I'm not saying you shop doesn't care but most shops tend to want to get things done and this is not process one speeds through if you want it right.

If you want more info ping one of use and we'll give you some insight on setup or read the spring install instructions. Likely a PDF online.

+1 to this!

It took me 3 tries to get the spacer length correct, having to pull the forks apart each time to cut a bit more of the spacer.

I highly doubt any shop will do that, they are just going to dump them in, cut you a random spacer length and send you on your way.

It is really worth spending the time and doing it right. It really is easy to do, do you have a friend who could help you and knows a bit of mechanic?

 

[FinalImpact]

+1 to this!

It took me 3 tries to get the spacer length correct, having to pull the forks apart each time to cut a bit more of the spacer.

I highly doubt any shop will do that, they are just going to dump them in, cut you a random spacer length and send you on your way.

It is really worth spending the time and doing it right. It really is easy to do, do you have a friend who could help you and knows a bit of mechanic?

FWIW - the handle bar clamp is the bulk of the work. Seriously the tube caps are 11 ft/lbs and the spring won't tear your hand off. Just level up the stanchion tubes (allen wrench) and pop the fork caps w/a crescent wrench. Yank the springs, drop in the new ones, throw the OEM spacers in, bounce it 10X and check the sag. Make some calculations and cut the new spacers. Caps back on and bolt the bars on and your done.
If you trust yourself with a cage lugnut, this isn't much more complex. A metric ruler and helper are needed. Although if your short on friends, a ZIP TIE can replace them!

 

[elus1ve]

So here is one little detail that might make it worthwhile to venture on you're own. Letting someone else throw the springs in without you present is huge gamble that it comes even close to right for you the rider of that bike. Why do I say this? Because the outcome without your a replacement of you in MASS, may NOT achieve improved results over the failed ones if not installed correctly.

Is this a shop a place you can be there and help in the setup? If so, bring your gear and force the issue as you need to set the SAG for you and your weight or someone within 10 - 15 lbs of you. Now I'm not saying you shop doesn't care but most shops tend to want to get things done and this is not process one speeds through if you want it right.

If you want more info ping one of use and we'll give you some insight on setup or read the spring install instructions. Likely a PDF online.

I hear ya and I know shops don't always have our best interests at heart. In this case, the dude comes to my friend's garage and does the job in front of us, does not rush and even takes the time to explain any unusual situations. So the confidence level is much higher and I should be able to ask him to set the sag for my weight since I will be there.

That being said, if I only had the choice between the shop and doing it myself, i might still go to the shop. I don't mind going through the learning curve and do the work but there are other factors such as having the space and proper tools. Two things I don't have and many city dwellers don't. All the more respects to you guys that do everything yourself and want to share the knowledge.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

After you watch him the first time, you'll see its NOT super hard and if you have the tools, can do it yourself and feel comfy doing it.

The FZ is one of the easist bikes to work on (not a terrible amount of plastic), few isues with some maintainance, etc.

I think its great he comes there and you watch and help and know there's NOT a newly hired kid, with less experiance than you, working on the bike...

I'll do the same thing, but here at my garage. Too many tools to haul around, especially if you forget something

 

[elus1ve]

Ok this has been taking longer than planned... back order parts etc. Anyhoo the mechanic came in today but there were no measurements specific to my weight taken.

He took out one OEM spacer + spring. Aligned them on the ground side by side with the new spring + spacer to compare total length. he then marked the new spacer so that the total length will match the old one. He is coming back tomorrow since we didn't have the tool to cut the spacer. I thought of doing what FinalImpact suggested and use the old spacer and start doing some measurements but I realized that the new springs are shorter by approx two inches than the OEMs so putting them back in with the new spring would be useless. The new springs are Racetech .90. When he comes back tomorrow, the only thing left to do will be minor adjustments using the smaller spacers. Is there something better we could have done here.

The brake pads have been replaced at least. Here's a pic of the old ones. As you can see one pad has been used up way more than the other. Also getting Bridgestone T30 front tire since Bt023 are discontinued.

 

[elus1ve]

I have seen how he does it though it seems like a simple enough job with the right tools. If there are adjustments to make, maybe I'll do that myself.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The brake pads have been replaced at least. Here's a pic of the old ones. As you can see one pad has been used up way more than the other..

I believe those are the rear pads.

FYI, the rear caliper floats on a set on pins with one piston. As the pads wear, the piston comes out and the unit SHOULD center itself on the pins.

With that said, you'll have equal wear on both pads and get the longest life out of them..

Your caliper appears to NOT be centering itself, thus the un-even wear. MOST of the time, this is due to dirty, old crappy, sticky grease on those pins and inside the caliper where the pins go.

Hopefully, your mechainic cleaned those pins and put in fresh BRAKE SPECIFIC grease in there. If not, it doesn't take long, I'd run the bike back to him and have it done. Shouldn't take 15 minutes tops but use BRAKE SPECIFIC GREASE. Its made for the high temps, and won't get thrown off...

BTW, I'll re-grease those pins approx once a year (when I remember). In a year, with fresh grease, you can feel how much easier it moves.. :thumbup:

 

[elus1ve]

These are the front brake pads. And no, he didn't grease the pistons when he replaces the pads. I saw how he did this and will do that myself this winter.

I believe those are the rear pads.

FYI, the rear caliper floats on a set on pins with one piston. As the pads wear, the piston comes out and the unit SHOULD center itself on the pins.

With that said, you'll have equal wear on both pads and get the longest life out of them..

Your caliper appears to NOT be centering itself, thus the un-even wear. MOST of the time, this is due to dirty, old crappy, sticky grease on those pins and inside the caliper where the pins go.

Hopefully, your mechainic cleaned those pins and put in fresh BRAKE SPECIFIC grease in there. If not, it doesn't take long, I'd run the bike back to him and have it done. Shouldn't take 15 minutes tops but use BRAKE SPECIFIC GREASE. Its made for the high temps, and won't get thrown off...

BTW, I'll re-grease those pins approx once a year (when I remember). In a year, with fresh grease, you can feel how much easier it moves.. :thumbup:

 

[FinalImpact]

Ok this has been taking longer than planned... back order parts etc. Anyhoo the mechanic came in today but there were no measurements specific to my weight taken.

He took out one OEM spacer + spring. Aligned them on the ground side by side with the new spring + spacer to compare total length. he then marked the new spacer so that the total length will match the old one. He is coming back tomorrow since we didn't have the tool to cut the spacer. I thought of doing what FinalImpact suggested and use the old spacer and start doing some measurements but I realized that the new springs are shorter by approx two inches than the OEMs so putting them back in with the new spring would be useless. The new springs are Racetech .90. When he comes back tomorrow, the only thing left to do will be minor adjustments using the smaller spacers. Is there something better we could have done here.

The brake pads have been replaced at least. Here's a pic of the old ones. As you can see one pad has been used up way more than the other. Also getting Bridgestone T30 front tire since Bt023 are discontinued.

^^ DO NOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN!!! IT IT IS NOT the CORRECT WAY TO SET PRELOAD. Static spring length means next to nothing. Tossing the two different brands of springs side by side will not give the results required for proper operation!

Please read the directions that came with the springs!!!!

Because the free length can vary significantly, it is of little value in a side by side comparison. You need to compress them so they support the bike and then cut the spacer to the proper length. Use a loaded spring measure for this. Not free length.

Ping us if you have questions as once you cut the spacer too short, many will not take the time to source another spacer and just live with a funked up setup which may be worse than what you had!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

These are the front brake pads. And no, he didn't grease the pistons when he replaces the pads. I saw how he did this and will do that myself this winter.

Re the brakes, when I referred to using brake grease, it was on the pins/bolts (if S1) the calipers ride on that need cleaning and fresh grease..


What year bike?, S1 or S2?

If S1, it works the same as the rear, the caliper floats and SHOULD center itself for even wear.. Similar maintainance..

If S2, the caliper is hard mounted (4 pistons), to the fork. The 4 pistons come out as the pads wear. Un-even wear for the S2 is usually due to the calipers needing a rebuild. The rubber seals inside harden up, stick and don't retract as they should with no hydralic pressure. Yamaha recommends seal replacement every TWO YEARS..

I've found between my old FJR and current FZ (same ft calipers) you can get 4-5 years before they need replacement.

You should be able to get approx ONE FREE SPIN (with the ft end lifted) spinning as hard as you can by hand. Before I rebuilt mine, I got maybe half a turn. Its been about two years since the rebuild, the ft wheel spins at about 4-4.5 revolutions...

 

[elus1ve]

How would you go about taking measurements in this situation given the previous springs and spacers aren't of the same length. Ideally it would be to cut the spacers gradually until we get the proper loads but I don't have the tools for that. I'm going to get the directions for the spring install online right now.

I was thinking of getting a slingshot fork cap adjuster on eBay to replace my caps and then start doing finer adjustments on my own. That's assuming that the spacers aren't cut too short. If it's too long I can go to a shop to get it cut again.

I may still have some time until he does the cutting. Should I tell him to cut it longer than measured?

^^ DO NOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN!!! IT IT IS NOT the CORRECT WAY TO SET PRELOAD. Static spring length means next to nothing. Tossing the two different brands of springs side by side will not give the results required for proper operation!

Please read the directions that came with the springs!!!!

Because the free length can vary significantly, it is of little value in a side by side comparison. You need to compress them so they support the bike and then cut the spacer to the proper length. Use a loaded spring measure for this. Not free length.

Ping us if you have questions as once you cut the spacer too short, many will not take the time to source another spacer and just live with a funked up setup which may be worse than what you had!