wtf, i have been told by quite a few riders to use my engine to help me brake in emergency situations and have even been practicing its use in case i needed it in an emergency.
ok, WTF!!! no engine braking in emergency situations???
- Thread starter lonesoldier84
- Start date
wtf, i have been told by quite a few riders to use my engine to help me brake in emergency situations and have even been practicing its use in case i needed it in an emergency.
Avalon786
Member
The way i was told and also the way i do is to first apply rear brake (it will stabilize the bike) then apply lots of front brake and pull the clutch lever in all the way...
I use engine braking in normal riding conditions. But in an emergency it would depend...
I use engine braking in normal riding conditions. But in an emergency it would depend...
H
HavBlue
Just a thought and truly my own personal preference; the bike has a number of things to bleed energy when stopping and the brakes are but one of the three I use. When it's time to stop in the shortest distance possible I use the brakes, clutch, transmission and if necessary I'm throwing the pillion off the back for a boat anchor. Well, maybe the pillion can stay on but the rest is true.
Fred
M em b er e d
In an emergency, I'm on both brakes pretty hard and generally downshifting at the same time in case I need to accelerate. It's just habit for me, I downshift when I'm slowing down. It's also how they taught me in MSF. When you do a panic stop, you should come to a halt with the clutch in and the bike in 1st.
But since I'm downshifting, I've got the clutch in and engine braking is not a factor.
You really don't need to engine brake in a panic stop. Your rear brake has more than enough power to stop the wheel on its own.
Oh yeah, I also scream bloody murder through the entire event. The pressure of the sound waves exiting my mouth helps to slow me down.
Fred
P.S. Who are you quoting? I'd be interested in reading the full text.
But since I'm downshifting, I've got the clutch in and engine braking is not a factor.
You really don't need to engine brake in a panic stop. Your rear brake has more than enough power to stop the wheel on its own.
Oh yeah, I also scream bloody murder through the entire event. The pressure of the sound waves exiting my mouth helps to slow me down.
Fred
P.S. Who are you quoting? I'd be interested in reading the full text.
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msgroup.org
find the link on there for the hundreds of tips, each tip has an essay, its brilliant
but surely engine braking is more powerful than rear brake
find the link on there for the hundreds of tips, each tip has an essay, its brilliant
but surely engine braking is more powerful than rear brake
cv_rider
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Engine braking slows the rear wheel just like the rear brake. But probably harder to control unless you have much better skills. Seems to increase the chance of rear wheel lockup. Proficient Motorcycling says in emergency to progressively squeeze the front for 1 second to transfer weight, and then grab it hard when the traction has increased. And use the rear too, but that seems to be something of an afterthought.
Hard for me to imagine what the reference is suggesting for engine braking in emergency. Maybe for the emergency that your brakes have failed. Another issue with engine braking is that it doesn't light up your tail light.
Hard for me to imagine what the reference is suggesting for engine braking in emergency. Maybe for the emergency that your brakes have failed. Another issue with engine braking is that it doesn't light up your tail light.
so dont use engine braking in emergency? but its so effective?
In the msf class I was taught to clutch-in, apply both brakes simutaneously paying attention to not lock either up and downshift to first in an emergency stop. In my limited experience, engine braking is good in general and even in a tight spot but in an emergency situation, clutch-in and use your brakes. Engine braking in an emergency might add tenths of a second to your effective reaction time. But then again, every situation is different and I guess only experience can truly dictate what one should do in a given emergency.
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Fred
M em b er e d
You're kidding, right?
Look at it this way. Engine breaking or using the rear brake. Which one can cause the rear wheel to skid?
That tells you which one is more powerful.
B
bluenova
Some very bizaar site that gives strange advice said:
What a lot of ball bags. The engine should always be engaged in any situation unless you are changing gear which should only take a split second.
You may be right but thats not what the MSF is teaching. I think every scenario is different which makes it difficult to come up withan all encompassing correct answer
B
bluenova
That's certainly true :thumbup:
Raid The Revenge
Super Member
How much friction do you want your tires to use?
You can only spend so much friction for braking, turning or accelerating. Whatever you spend more on, you get less for something else.
I personally don't use engine braking, because I don't understand EXACTLY how much friction it takes from my rear tire for slowing down. I've practiced the rear brake enough to know how much will cause a skid. The idea is NOT to skid during an emergency stop.
You can only spend so much friction for braking, turning or accelerating. Whatever you spend more on, you get less for something else.
I personally don't use engine braking, because I don't understand EXACTLY how much friction it takes from my rear tire for slowing down. I've practiced the rear brake enough to know how much will cause a skid. The idea is NOT to skid during an emergency stop.
when u drop to first gear and let out slowly on clutch at 80kph, the bike LURCHES you forward as it slows the bike so quickly. Rear brake? needless to say....not so much.
therefore....
engine braking > rear brake
which is the root of my surprise in the first place. engine brakings so powerful, why isnt it a huge thing to use in emergency braking?
and good point Elm
In an emergency: Engine braking = more things to think about = slower reaction time.
I use engine braking all the time in normal riding situations but imo in a true emergency its just too many steps.
B
bluenova
I don't think it's good to be thinking about engine braking in an emergency situation, there's just too much else to be thinking about. But one thing is for sure, if you dis-engage the engine (pull the clutch) you are not in full control of the bike.
Never leave the clutch engaged during a panic stop. Why? If you lock the rear tire, the engine stalls. If you let off of the brake to stop the skid, the engine has to try to restart, most of the time it won't, so you keep on skidding. If you pull the clutch in during a panic stop, you can modulate the brakes easier since you do not have to fight with the powertrain.
My MSF teacher demonstrated this during the course. Once the back tire stops spinning, the melting rubber has very little grip, and never restarted the bike after a lockup. Not to mention you loose the ability to down shift, if you accidentally roll on the throttle when grabbing the front brake, now you have that to deal with too. So as I was taught, ALWAYS pull in the clutch for panic braking!
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CanadianFZ6
Member
Here is a study.... some of you guys need to read it..
http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceed...ormanceEvaluationsofVariousBrakingSystems.pdf
http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceed...ormanceEvaluationsofVariousBrakingSystems.pdf
Jake
Junior Member
Speaking only for the 2005 model, the rear brake has a high propensity to lock the tire in an emergency stop. I've found this true even when I'm using both brakes at the same time. Yes the MSF course teaches using both brakes. However, my rear will lock in a hearbeat when using more than a hair of rear brake in an emergency stop.
I use the front brake only at higher speeds. Staying in the higher revs will also help tremendously as the bike will slow immediately when you let off the throttle. Pulling the clutch in is not something I would do as the bike "goes limp". Personally I'm not really thrilled about the pure downshift braking performance of the 05 model. It's very jerky, but for those who have mastered it I congratulate.
Low speeds and U-turns I only use the back brake.
Jake
I use the front brake only at higher speeds. Staying in the higher revs will also help tremendously as the bike will slow immediately when you let off the throttle. Pulling the clutch in is not something I would do as the bike "goes limp". Personally I'm not really thrilled about the pure downshift braking performance of the 05 model. It's very jerky, but for those who have mastered it I congratulate.
Low speeds and U-turns I only use the back brake.
Jake
Denver_FZ6
Junior Member
Agree! My current technique, borrowed from Proficient Motorcycling is to initially use rear brake to stabilize bike and lower CG, while progressively engaging front. It only takes a second before weight has sufficiently shifted to front and it now performs majority if not all braking. At this point the rear wheel is unweighted and it's time to release it, as it will have little braking ability.
I've already had a couple emergency stops on the highway cruise home. Downshifting through several gears and attempting to work clutch and front brake is too much for me.
