Question TRYING to solve the snatchy throttle

[Piggy]

Its a common thing with the FZ6, and the harder you work on smooth roll on throttle with fast track riding at high rpm, the more obvious it becomes.
Some say they don't experience it but I believe its almost 100% of all FZ6s.

I am glad to find so much info on it on this forum, as after posting on a UK Facebook group, some told me it was my riding. I worked tirelessly to improve my inputs... but finally took to recoridng my throttle movement v bike response and it was so obvious it had this dead spot. Which when you're really on it on track, higher rpm, crack the throttle mid turn, its violent sometimes and instructors have a go at me for being too brutal with the throttle!

Anyway, my bike is a 2008 FZ6s. I love the thing. But if I cant solve the throttle issue, or seriously improve it, I have to look for a different bike, I've ridden other modern FI bikes and they are smooth.

What I have done so far;
Checked and adjusted throttle cable, perfect.
Checked the TPS via onboard diagnostic mode, goes from 0% to 1% perfectly, as soon as the throttle moves. No jumping.
Balanced the throttle bodies.
Fitted free flowing exhaust and decat.
Adjusted C02 levels via on board diagnostic mode.
Ignition advance cog/wheel.
(bike is fully serviced and up to date, always use 97/99 fuel, valve clearances spot on)

None of the above have made any difference to the throttle snatchy/jerk from 0% to 10% as you roll on. Very very very very notcieable in 2nd and 3rd at mid/high rpm. Less so at the same speed but in 5th or 6th. . . naturally.

I have heard Power Commanders can help.. but its more money I could put towards a different bike, which I don't want to do, but I have to spend wisely at this stage. (especially as the other weakness, the front end suspension, would warrant some money)

HELP!
Piggy

EDIT;

Here is a video of the issue, hopefully you can see it clearly enough.

I recorded this after adjusting the TPS to register 18-103, as advised on the thread below (no change)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

G2 Throttle Tamer Review - webBikeWorld

G2 Throttle Tamer review.

www.webbikeworld.com

 

[Piggy]

G2 Throttle Tamer Review - webBikeWorld

G2 Throttle Tamer review.

www.webbikeworld.com

That still won't help tho, all beit a cool design... You can roll on the throttle as smooth and slow as you like, and there's nothing... Nothing ... Nothing...

Then blam! 10% throttle hits hard.

 

[Gary in NJ]

Something is wrong with your throttle or ECU. I would remove the tank and air box to confirm that the throttle plates move with application of the throttle in a linear fashion. The throttle plates at idle should be just off from a full block.

You mentioned that you adjusted the CO2 values. What were your final values and how were they determined?

Are you sure that the ignition advance is correct?

 

[Piggy]

Something is wrong with your throttle or ECU. I would remove the tank and air box to confirm that the throttle plates move with application of the throttle in a linear fashion. The throttle plates at idle should be just off from a full block.

You mentioned that you adjusted the CO2 values. What were your final values and how were they determined?

Are you sure that the ignition advance is correct?

Hi pal
This is a super common complaint/issue with the FZ6 and was talked about when they were new I believe. I do think some fine tuning in the ecu mapping or a better ecu would solve it though.

Throttle plates are all in perfect harmony. Balanced them also, spot on.
I tried multiple C02 settings, lots of riding, nothing changed as regards the throttle snatch

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Carmo was re-adjusting ECU's for it (just remembered)

 

[Gary in NJ]

A “snatchy” throttle is one thing…hesitating by 10% is an indication that something is severely wrong (the throttle plates open, but the ECU isn't suppling fuel to support the map...causing the mixture to go lean...then here comes the fuel...that's a problem). That would be dangerous and I would suggest you not ride the bike.

And for what it's worth, I don't think this is common. My fueling is spot on and there are 10's of thousands that don't have the issue. I wont insult you and say it's a technique issue - enough people mention it that it may be real - but it is a very small population of posts on the forum. If you are getting delayed response from the ECU, then the problem is likely the ECU itself getting into a loop where it can not resolve the inputs to calculate the correct map. Rather then give a bad result, I think it gives a null result until it can resolve the inputs.

 

[Piggy]

Carmo was re-adjusting ECU's for it (just remembered)

who is Carmo matey?

thanks for replying

 

[Piggy]

A “snatchy” throttle is one thing…hesitating by 10% is an indication that something is severely wrong (the throttle plates open, but the ECU isn't suppling fuel to support the map...causing the mixture to go lean...then here comes the fuel...that's a problem). That would be dangerous and I would suggest you not ride the bike.

And for what it's worth, I don't think this is common. My fueling is spot on and there are 10's of thousands that don't have the issue. I wont insult you and say it's a technique issue - enough people mention it that it may be real - but it is a very small population of posts on the forum. If you are getting delayed response from the ECU, then the problem is likely the ECU itself getting into a loop where it can not resolve the inputs to calculate the correct map. Rather then give a bad result, I think it gives a null result until it can resolve the inputs.

live data shows the TPS is giving an accurate reading, IE 0-1% as soon as the throttle is opened. I MUST do a video with the throttle/hand in shot with audio. I'd love to see the same video from yours, at like 7/8k rpm, 0% throttle then roll on really gently.

It's not dangerous and not burning "lean" as there is no fuel at all being injected, not a small amount.

There is definitely a PROBLEM though I agree. It's likely not as much as 10% but it sure can feel like it as you might imagine.

I have found with posting this on FB groups than everyone assumes its normal until its mentioned. Or like at a huge bike meet on Monday, a few said they got rid of theirs as they couldnt get on with the throttle as I described. So I rekon a lot simply dont mention it, just as a FZ6 thing. . . if that makes sense?
What you describe though is how I imagine the ECU to be "seeing" things... it can see the TPS at 1-5% or whatever it maybe but doesnt start injection for SOME other reason, whatever it may be.

What I would REALLY love to find is a tuner who works with these ECU's and get some dyno time with them. Get it properly dialed in. I cannot find anyone though. I feel its a map issue personally. But happy to be wrong/corrected.

 

[Motogiro]

I'm wondering if you could adjust the TPS, clocking it in the direction that would eliminate that 10 percent rotation response. This might tell you something. Ive seen it happen where multimeter measurements pass a TPS but it still fails because of transient noise right at the beginning of it's rotation.

 

[Piggy]

I'm wondering if you could adjust the TPS, clocking it in the direction that would eliminate that 10 percent rotation response. This might tell you something. Ive seen it happen where multimeter measurements pass a TPS but it still fails because of transient noise right at the beginning of it's rotation.

It's not 10% exactly... I'm not aware that I can see live data on the dash at same time as riding? I dont think you can anyway. I am not reading the TPS with a multimeter... but seeing with live data on the dash that it sees 1%- throttle position as soon as I touch the throttle. I also dont notice it at low rpm, like carparks and doing motojistu things but it could be there and just not noticable. Make sensay?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Carmo (as I re-call), was a company that re-flashed the ECU.

I looked for it, apparently there out of business...

 

[Piggy]

Carmo (as I re-call), was a company that re-flashed the ECU.

I looked for it, apparently there out of business...

really??? I just emailed them from their website. Man that would suck.
I dont know anyone in the UK who touch these ECUs.
Thanks for trying.

 

[francesco21]

Hello Piggy,

I am the owner of a 2007 FAZER S2 and I agree with you :
the fazzy is a very well built bike, with many abilities and qualities … we are all aware that,
but the snatchy throttles (and also sometimes the gearbox) is a major defect, which can be very annoying.

If you look at others bikes of the same technology, same years, I think about an HONDA CB 600 FA or a SUZUKI GSXF 650 for examples,
they are smoother and much more pleasant to drive for a quiet ride.

For sure, some drivers get used to it or accomodate this ; but ride another bike and this Fazzy defect become obvious.

So the question is : How is it possible to reduce it … ?

As you, I have tried a lot of things :
- advance timing something betwenn +3,5 and +4 degrees
- decat tube
- remove the two small cats in the header and welding
- remove AIS plates
- perfect setting of throttle cable, throttle bodies ...
- CO1=+10 and CO2=+10 (origin was 0 and 0)

I must said this help, but not enough to my taste.

So I have tried another mod, which give good results : I change the TPS setting :
My OEM setting was 16-101 at the dashboard : I move it a bit, in order it was 18-103.
here is a link to a vidéo :

this change the fuel timing for a given opening throttle.
It also change the ignition timing and I would like to see the maps for all gears (not sure the +4 degrees ignition advance is a good thing with this TPS setting...).

But despite this, this is a good way to test to improve the snatchy throttle.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Piggy, can you post a link to them? Thanks..

 

[Senior]

I'm gonna ask, to rule it out, have you checked you have correct chain tension as too much slack will give the snatchy/jerk feeling

 

[Piggy]

I'm gonna ask, to rule it out, have you checked you have correct chain tension as too much slack will give the snatchy/jerk feeling

changed chain, sprockets, rear hub bushes.. all becuase people didnt believe it wasnt those things. this isnt a snatchy/jerk, this is a full throttle delay. MUST make a video to show this

 

[Piggy]

Piggy, can you post a link to them? Thanks..

a link to who?

 

[Piggy]

Hello Piggy,

I am the owner of a 2007 FAZER S2 and I agree with you :
the fazzy is a very well built bike, with many abilities and qualities … we are all aware that,
but the snatchy throttles (and also sometimes the gearbox) is a major defect, which can be very annoying.

If you look at others bikes of the same technology, same years, I think about an HONDA CB 600 FA or a SUZUKI GSXF 650 for examples,
they are smoother and much more pleasant to drive for a quiet ride.

For sure, some drivers get used to it or accomodate this ; but ride another bike and this Fazzy defect become obvious.

So the question is : How is it possible to reduce it … ?

As you, I have tried a lot of things :
- advance timing something betwenn +3,5 and +4 degrees
- decat tube
- remove the two small cats in the header and welding
- remove AIS plates
- perfect setting of throttle cable, throttle bodies ...
- CO1=+10 and CO2=+10 (origin was 0 and 0)

I must said this help, but not enough to my taste.

So I have tried another mod, which give good results : I change the TPS setting :
My OEM setting was 16-101 at the dashboard : I move it a bit, in order it was 18-103.
here is a link to a vidéo :

this change the fuel timing for a given opening throttle.
It also change the ignition timing and I would like to see the maps for all gears (not sure the +4 degrees ignition advance is a good thing with this TPS setting...).

But despite this, this is a good way to test to improve the snatchy throttle.

this is super interesting... I will 100% do a video of the problem, try this and do a video after. Thankyou

The AIS plates, did you blank this then? With no ill effects or faults? Unplugged and removed the air recirc valve?

 

[francesco21]

Yes, I have put AIS block off plates bought on the web, and remove all the valves system, without any fault ...
this was part of all the mods but I doubt this one alone has a big effect.

If you change the TPS setting a bit, keep us informed of your feeling ...
thanks