who would you vote for and why?

[Hellgate]

Okay here's my .02 cents...

Obama - Yuppie scum, from a racist church. He's going to tax the crap out of us because he lives in socialist fairy land. "I'll create a program to (fill in the blank).

McCain - Remember the Keeting 5??? Well he's one of the five, S&L meltdown = Subprime meltdown. He's a flip-flopper and I don't think a good politician has ever come out of Arizona. Hell they've impeached like 3 or 4 govenors in the past 15 years.

Oil - The estimates in the Iraq oil reseves were doubled in 2006, second only to SA. Alaska has great potenial and new discovery technology increase our ability to find oil. There is more there than you think. As I've said before, the current cost of oil has more to do with futures traders and refining capacity then the actual flow of oil. Iraq is currently producing more oil NOW than any time under Saddam.

If you would like to invest in Alaska North Slope Oil I do have some property available.

Minc Oil Co.

 

[Fred]

I tend to agree but also want to point out that Hydrogen cars are a 10 year reality if refueling stations are put into place or Honda perfects the "Home Energy Station" which will not only allow you to refuel your car every night but also power your home 24/7 with water.

It's not powered by water. The HES gets its power from natural gas, which is a a side product of oil drilling. While it's a neat device, the HES is not an alternative energy source.

The same is true of hydrogen for your fuel cell vehicle. While it is possible to produce hydrogen from water via electrolysis, this is a very inefficient process. And it requires an energy source.

Most hydrogen used in the world today is produced as a side product of oil refining.

Which is why the current administration has been happily endorsing hydrogen cars. They know exactly where the H2 comes from.

 

[dako81]

There's a good deal of talk about oil prices here so I figured I'd post a quote of my post in a different thread on my take about gas prices.

I read this thread and I became interested in the price of a gallon of regular gasoline vs. the price of silver vs. USD ($ dollars) over the past 20 years or so. I went to doe.gov and kitco.com where I got information about the price of fuel and silver since 1990. I would have gone further but I couldn't easily find the fuel prices past then and didn't want to dig more than a couple of minutes.

I will admit I didn't compile the complete averages because that would have taken way too much time. I just picked a value for that year that was in the middle and representative of the average for that year, so I would be confident in saying that the numbers shown are within several cents of the true average for that year. If you check out the data and feel my numbers are way off let me know, because I'm just trying to make sense of all this too.

Here's what I came up with:

1990 gas $1.15 a gal silver $5.00 oz ratio: .23 oz of silver for 1 gallon gas
1995 gas $1.08 a gal silver $5.30 oz ratio: .204 oz of silver for 1 gallon gas
2000 gas $1.50 a gal silver $5.00 oz ratio: .3 oz of silver for 1 gallon gas
2005 gas $2.45 a gal silver $7.50 oz ratio: .327 oz of silver for 1 gallon gas
current $4.10 a gal silver $17.87 oz ratio: .229 oz of silver for 1 gallon gas

As you can see, gasoline has stayed in a range of about 30%+- what it has been worth since 1990 in terms of silver. (Yea, 1995 was about 38% off the highest price, but you get the idea.) Silver is something that actually has value, unlike our fiat money that they just keep printing off.

But, although the price of gas in terms of silver has stayed somewhere around where it has been, the price to the consumer in dollars has gone up. Why is this? Due to this data I think because our money is worth less. As you can see, compared to 1990, today it takes about 3.57 times more dollars to buy a gallon of gas, but would take almost the same amount of silver. This is because, from the information I gathered about the price of silver, our dollar is worth about 28% of what it used to be worth in 1990. So that makes a 72% value decrease over about 18 years.

So from what I've found, the decrease in the value of our currency is why it is costing more at the pump, not oil companies jacking up prices.

Although it may seem a little outrageous to believe that our dollar has decreased by 72% in value over about 18 years, I don't think there is really any saying that what I just demonstrated was bunk because I took fact numbers and divided them to give a ratio.

What do you think?

So from just my basic calculations, it isn't the price of oil going up, it's the value of our dollar going down which is very important in terms of a global market.

I gal gas = 1/4 oz silver (roughly), it seems it has for at least the past 20 years...If we all traded silver or another precious metal, we'd be paying about the same amount we always have been.

 

[Hellgate]

There's a good deal of talk about oil prices here so I figured I'd post a quote of my post in a different thread on my take about gas prices.



So from just my basic calculations, it isn't the price of oil going up, it's the value of our dollar going down which is very important in terms of a global market.

I gal gas = 1/4 oz silver (roughly), it seems it has for at least the past 20 years...If we all traded silver or another precious metal, we'd be paying about the same amount we always have been.

You are very correct Brad, just like what we were talking about yesterday the weak dollar has a lot to do with it.

Most of our oil comes from our friends in Canada and Mexico, about 75%. I wonder how the dollar compares to the Canadian dollars and the Peso vs. the Euro over the past two years?

BTW...Most people think we get our oil from the ME, not true. So the arguement that Bush went to Iraq to get oil story doesn't hold water, nor oil.

 

[mdr]

Just my 2 cents ,but whoever you vote for your still going to end up with a politician

The wonderful thing about America is that if you think you can do a better job you can always run for office yourself (well you can if you're a citizen, not a felon, old enough etc). And remember, America is a republic, not a democracy. Politicians are supposed to represent the people that voted for them, which may or may not have been YOU. No politician is ever going to make EVERYONE happy.

 

[mdr]

I'd vote for Ron Paul. Dunno if i'll vote for anyone else...
Also Alex Jones would really clean this "mess" that the people are letting the USA become...I'd deff vote for him!

Alex Jones the baseball player?
Alex Jones Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

How is he going to save the world? opcorn:

 

[mdr]

as of right now the national oil reserve is 700 million barrels of oil. off the coast alone there is supposed to be over 700 trillion barrels. in the anwr there is more oil then in the middle east combined. that doesn't include the shale fields in Colorado. our country is more then capable of being self sufficient. we have allowed cheap labor to drive big industry away, small businesses are going under because of ridiculous tax demands. our very nation in a whole is at risk of terrorist attacks because of weak borders.

Sportrider - lets have some sources for these figures. Last I looked the US reserves were pegged at 21 billion barrels. My source is:

Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the national oil reserve was 700 million (7.0E8) then we'd use that up in a few months. Perhaps you meant 700 billion? Which I would dispute in any case if that's what you did mean.

Where is your source for the other 699,980 billion barrels that you're referring to offshore?

 

[mdr]

McCain for me....

Taxes -- obama wants to raise them BIG time.... I am paying plenty already

Experience -- I would not want someone with 3 years experience running my business, therefore I do not want someone with Obama's lack of experience running our economy, policies and military

I liked Ron Paul....but now I will vote McCain

Mike: Unless you're making over $125,000 a year your taxes will probably go down under an Obama tax plan... Take a look at his website if you have not already. You might be surprised at what you find.

PS: I liked Ron Paul too. Too bad he got such a bad deal with the press.
"Write in" ?:cheer:

 

[mdr]

Obama - Yuppie scum, from a racist church. He's going to tax the crap out of us because he lives in socialist fairy land. "I'll create a program to (fill in the blank).

Hellgate: I'll grant you the racist church, but to call him scum because of where he worships makes you the racist as well. Implying that he's a socialist isn't appropriate (or accurate) either. :ban:

 

[winchestmag1]

Since we're actually voting for a Commander and Chief and not someone who “changes” the world's environment or economy in four years, I’m going with McCain. Obama knows as much about running the military as he does about his own religion. Unfortunately McCain is weak competition and the American public believes that what Obama says is actually truth. Do people not realize this guy, who calls himself an American, will not even say our pledge of allegiance, and who was sworn into his seat in the senate on the Koran and not the Bible?

 

[dako81]

Hellgate: I'll grant you the racist church, but to call him scum because of where he worships makes you the racist as well. Implying that he's a socialist isn't appropriate (or accurate) either. :ban:

Going to a racist church and giving tithes for 20+ years and not scum? That's like Dale Jr. winning the Daytona 500 and not being a racecar driver.

 

[DrummerBoy83]

Ill be voting for Mccain, I believe he is the lesser of two evils. I believe that Obama is a Marxist, and I dont want HIS form of government.

Huckabee was my guy, but that didnt work out too well. I would have loved to see a Huckabee/ Romney ticket. Great social conservatism, followed by some good business sence. That sounded like a winner, if they could have stopped the bickering.

 

[urbanj]

lets start a new thread on oil debates (which i love) ive ready numerous books on the topic. the most recent one i read was called "the empty tank". written by a geologist that used to work for the oil industry. pretty much every "professional" on the topic knows there isnt enought oil left in the world to keep up with our consumption. we are extracting oil from reserves that date to the 70's. and even if another huge oil field is found, it would be at least 10 years before it was online and helping our supply needs.

but even so, environmentally we still have more than enough oil to damage the earth beyond repair. so getting oil now off shore isnt going to help anyone. and the tar sands in alberta use so much water to extract that we will have a huge water problem to boot.

why do i trust the professionals? (geologist, environmental scientist) because if you had a problem with your beloved FZ6 you wouldnt call up the sales manager or district manager of the dealership and ask him what is wrong.
politicians or ceo's of big oil for that matter do not know anything but dollars and cents and their advisors are narrow minded and everyone is looking at impressing the shareholder. maybe their experts know, but to have a job they cant express it.

and its the uneducated share holders of the world that just look at their account and get mad and want to know why their XYZ oil and gas stock didnt go up XX% when the other guys did.

innovation and change cost money and no one wants to do it full force.......yet

 

[sportrider]

STRATEGIC PETROLEUM RESERVE INVENTORY

CURRENT SPR INVENTORY AS OF July 17, 2008
SWEET------------SOUR ------------TOTAL
282.6 million bbls 423.7 million bbls * 706.3


SPR OIL MOVEMENTS in Millions of Barrels
MONTH EXCHANGE BARRELS DRAWDOWN BARRELS NET MOVEMENT

Aug-07 0.2 0.2
Sep-07 2.4 2.4
Oct-07 1.3 1.3
Nov-07 1.4 1.4
Dec-07 1.4 1.4
Jan-08 1.4 *** 1.4
Feb-08 0.5 0.5
Mar-08 1.6 1.6
Apr-08 1.1 1.1
May-08 2.8 2.8
Jun-08 1.7 1.7
Jul-08 1.3 ** 1.3
Aug-08 - Dec-08 0.0 0.0
Jan-09 - Feb-09 0.0 0.0
Mar-09 - May-09 2.2 **** 2.2

here's my source on the reserve www.spr.gov spr (strategic petrolium reserve)
Give me a while and I'll post the rest once I get home from work.

 

[dako81]

...Do people not realize this guy, who calls himself an American, will not even say our pledge of allegiance, and who was sworn into his seat in the senate on the Koran and not the Bible?

It's not OUR pledge of allegiance, and certainly not MY pledge. It's Francis Bellamy's pledge of indoctorination.

Francis Bellamy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Francis Bellamy, a socialist, wrote the pledge to sell flags and to help indoctronate kids and teach obedience to the state in schools. If I would have known the origins of the pledge I would have refused to say it in school.

They're both just real old books to me.

 

[Fred]

Do people not realize this guy, who calls himself an American, will not even say our pledge of allegiance, and who was sworn into his seat in the senate on the Koran and not the Bible?

1. He IS an American.

2. You are wrong on all counts.
snopes.com: Who Is Barack Obama?

These rumors are the result of small minded people trying to ruin Obama's reputation. It's another Swift Boating. Don't believe the hype.

 

[dark_isz]

..........

 

[Hellgate]

Hellgate: I'll grant you the racist church, but to call him scum because of where he worships makes you the racist as well. Implying that he's a socialist isn't appropriate (or accurate) either. :ban:

mdr - You've got two thoughts mixed into one statement, 1) Yuppie Scum - Arugala eating, Whole Foods shopping, Preis driving, "I know better than you because I'm so aware...", Starbucks drinking Yuppie Scum. 2) Attended a racist church.

Where he worships has nothing to do with the scum noun. I really don't care where he worships, or what he worhsips, that is his business. That is the beauty of our country. Now when he wants to be elected to the most powerful office in the world after attending a racist chuch for 20 years, that I have an issue with.

As far as a socialist, yes he is. He the THE most left leaning sentor in the entire US Senate. He is more left than either of the Clintons. McCain is more of a moderate than right leaning. Remember Communist and Socalist are two very different things, many countries in Europe are socalist. Obama wants a large Federal program to fix all of the major issues. He does not want the state of local government to find a solition but to adopt his vision.

It that clearer now?

 

[kustom17]

Since we're actually voting for a Commander and Chief and not someone who “changes” the world's environment or economy in four years, I’m going with McCain. Obama knows as much about running the military as he does about his own religion. Unfortunately McCain is weak competition and the American public believes that what Obama says is actually truth. Do people not realize this guy, who calls himself an American, will not even say our pledge of allegiance, and who was sworn into his seat in the senate on the Koran and not the Bible?

If you think McCain would be a good Commander and Chief, you are sorely mistaken.... i refer you to my previous statement.

"I know a lot of people who worked in the pentagon and on the hill with McCain (including my dad[admiral] and uncles[Seals] ) and everyone in the military (Rep & Dem) all say you can't trust the guy as far as you can throw him. ( on a side note everyone says that McCain's dad was above and beyond an exceptional leader..... the apple fell far from the tree)"

Being an exceptional Military Leader requires more than being shot down and held prisoner... actually commanding people takes something I can't even begin to describe... McCain like Bush doesn't haven't a clue (Mission Accomplished?)

 

[Cloned]

He's a flip-flopper and I don't think a good politician has ever come out of Arizona. Hell they've impeached like 3 or 4 govenors in the past 15 years.

I've lived in AZ all my life, and that statement is pretty much true. Believe it or not McCain used to be a good senator. But being a senator for 20 years takes it's toll. He's flip flopped so much I could state two contradicting views and he'd agree with both of them.

And yeah, most of our politicians are corrupt. Even a small time representative from Nor. AZ (where I am) is just now going through a trial for stuff he has been doing for years.