Dangerous or not?

[craig007]

I think everyone is a little different. For me, I study to music, I work with music playing and I drive with music. Riding to music is natural to me and I think that it helps my concentration and alertness.

Before, I used my MP3 player, I always used ear plugs anyway. I found that even with the best earplugs, I could still hear, my engine, cars, horns and everything around me. I could hear people talking to me, just could not make out the words. I now use noise isolating earbuds with my MP3 player. They basically substitute wind noise for music. I adjust the volume to 50-60% of max and I'm good to go. I can hear my surroundings just fine.

The key is to reduce the overall noise level. As long as the noise that gets to your ear is 10-20 dB lower than your ear/helmet combination, you should be golden (and still have your hearing intact after the ride). This can be achived with noise isolating earbuds and resonable player volume. Regular earbuds just add music on top of wind noise. That is a bad idea.

 

[OneTrack]

I'm going to gut a pair of regular head phones and mount the speakers inside my helmet under the liner so they stay put.

I'm going to try a couple of methods:-
1: Sony ear buds that "semi" cancel outside noise, but have fantastic sound reproduction, so volume can be quite low. The issue with them, of course, is getting them to stay put when putting on my helmet, and when riding.
2: TORK XPRO Helmet Speakers and earplugs. This is a very interesting combination that I am going to try. The speakers have their own independent volume control which I like.
Anyhow, I'll report back when I try out both systems. In the Spring. When it's dry. And warm.

 

[OneTrack]

During my time as a motorcycle courier I ran over a pedestrian. I was filtering at 15mph. The traffic was at a standstill. My traffic lights were on green. He ran out into the road. Ignoring the do not cross signal and I hit him. I was trucking angry with him as it smashed my head light (bike only 2 months old). I picked myself of the floor and ran over to him and started ranting. He pissed himself. I was delighted. He kept saying "I'm sorry I didn't hear you". The thing is hs was distracted by the music, he didn't even look.
If you have an accident whilst listening to you Ipod. It would be difficult to argue that you were driving with due course and attention. If im correct the manufactures recomend that the item is not used whilst operating machinery?

Again, you're equating wearing an iPod on a bike to the actions of a fool who was not using his other available senses.....his eyes and COMMON SENSE. You don't just walk out into traffic without being even remotely concerned that there just might be a ton and a half of glass and steel barreling towards you or a motorcycle. I cannot see my other senses diminished one iota because I happen to have music playing in my ears....If anything, it would tend to heighten my other senses. Oh, and btw...I cannot for the life of me imagine a situation where a car would honk at me, rather than me honking at the car. As motorcyclists, we (by necessity) are natural defensive riders/drivers.
Anyhow, as I said...I haven't tried using my iPod yet on my bike, so I'm keeping a very open mind. If I based all my life decisions on the reported actions of idiots, I'd become a monk.

 

[OneTrack]

Drunk drivers tried to use that argument.... No problems though, just let me know which roads you are riding so I can avoid them.

Again, you're making HUGE leaps in "logic" here....I don't think listening to a bit of music while riding/driving is quite the same as riding/driving while drunk. C'mon...

 

[ant_mb]

I have all my helmets wired with mics and speakers. If I'm riding, then I'm listening to music, GPS prompts, or the CB radio. Dangerous or not, it makes the ride for me so it's a risk I'm willing to take.

 

[wrightme43]

Drunk drivers tried to use that argument.... No problems though, just let me know which roads you are riding so I can avoid them.

This one here I do have a problem with. Equating listening to music with being a drunk driver is a stretch way beyond common sense. It is almost intentionally antagonistic. I will not put up with trolling on this forum. In the future please take a few seconds before hitting enter and make sure what your saying is what you mean.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Am I the only one who doesn't own an I-pod or a MP3? If I did, I may consider using it on for long road trips, highway riding. Absolutely, out of the question in traffic This just my personal opinion.

 

[HavBlue]

Ear plugs reduce all sounds equally. The rider can still hear every sound around them, JUST AT A REDUCED LEVEL! All the sounds are equally there, all the differeintal sounds are still there. The whack jobs that fight helmet use are the ones using the I cant hear with a helmet on argument.

True. However, depending on what you are using for ear plugs, that sound reduction can be a total loss. Now, considering the average bike is at or above 85dBA the rider may have to crank the volume up on that iPod or MP3 to a level above this meaning hearing loss can occur. As to the I can't hear with a helmet on, I can dang sure hear better with my cruiser helmet on than I can the full face. Regardless, the question remains, is the use of iPod or MP3 distractive enough to make things dangerous. I think it falls back on the person using the device.

 

[OneTrack]

True. However, depending on what you are using for ear plugs, that sound reduction can be a total loss. Now, considering the average bike is at or above 85dBA the rider may have to crank the volume up on that iPod or MP3 to a level above this meaning hearing loss can occur.

That's what I'm anxious to find out...whether or not I have to crank up my iPod's volume to the point where it DOES become an annoyance/distraction. I don't like loud music (any more...) so any acceptable performance with the iPod will be predicated by that. As I mentioned above, I'm going to try 2 different systems...3 actually, but one is just a variation of the ear bud system. I'll report on all 3.
Actually, I got the iPod to use primarily for my business road trips in my car. I can plug it in to the AUX jack and play a bazillion tunes all week, without having to cart around a trunkload of CD's. I drive in areas that have no radio reception in the interior of British Columbia.

I think it falls back on the person using the device.

Precisely! :thumbup:

 

[HavBlue]

That's what I'm anxious to find out...whether or not I have to crank up my iPod's volume to the point where it DOES become an annoyance/distraction. I don't like loud music (any more...) so any acceptable performance with the iPod will be predicated by that. As I mentioned above, I'm going to try 2 different systems...3 actually, but one is just a variation of the ear bud system. I'll report on all 3.
Actually, I got the iPod to use primarily for my business road trips in my car. I can plug it in to the AUX jack and play a bazillion tunes all week, without having to cart around a trunkload of CD's. I drive in areas that have no radio reception in the interior of British Columbia.



Precisely! :thumbup:

I have the Sony silicone phones and when they are in I can't hear squat. With the music at about 50 percent on the range scale all I hear is music as the bike has now become an afterthought.

 

[wrightme43]

On bicycling, the sense of hearing and headphones


^^^Please read this. It pretty much shoots all the argument down. ^^^


http://www.e-a-r.com/pdf/hearingcons/earlog20.pdf

 

[CanadianFZ6]

This one here I do have a problem with. Equating listening to music with being a drunk driver is a stretch way beyond common sense. It is almost intentionally antagonistic. I will not put up with trolling on this forum. In the future please take a few seconds before hitting enter and make sure what your saying is what you mean.

You didn't read my response properly... He said he thought he should be allowed to do as he wishes, it's his right, because he's an adult. I wasn't saying there is any connection between drunk drivers and listening to music whatsoever. I said, drunk drivers also feel it is there right to drive drunk, because they feel they are adults and think they won't hurt anyone. It was his attitude I was compairing with drunk driving. I was kind of offended when you suggested some trolling was happening.... I was simply trying to make an argument on the fact there are other people on the road to think about, not just your safety. I don't like people on he roads with me that may have distractions while riding/driving. Talking on the cell, yelling at your kids in the back or funken' out to Queen... can be all distractions.

 

[wrightme43]

Ok.

If that is not what you meant thats not what you meant.

My experince with riding and driving with music is that when used by a individual with some kind of common sense it is safe. When used by someone one without any sense it is not safe.

I turn my stero down when I see things on the road that require more attention. For example and not all inclusive. Construction, heavy traffic, places where I dont know where I am going. I just push pause on the ipod on the bike.

On the topic of semi trucks sneaking up on you, its not the fault of your ears. If you will read the link above you, it will explain why.

Sound behaves in a certain manner based on the terrain, speed, distance, temp, and closing rate. It is not a effective tool for riding, driving, flying or anything moving at more than a walking pace and barely even then, and it requires a cane, and years of practice. Basicly as I see it your argument is that someone who has headphones on is a danger to you and your family. If that is the case, and by that reasoning people who are deaf should not be allowed to drive, or people with out hearing aids. It is not a argument that can be won. Listening to music uses a completely different part of the brain than having a conversation. Talking with someone in your car uses much more of your brains processing power than listening to music. Would you like to ban coversation while driving as well? Obviously not. But by following the same logic you can get to that answer. Humans are completly able to do this. Our brains are great at multitasking.
Talking on a hands free cell phone is fine too.
Now this is a problem when driving or riding. Doing math in your head. Oddlly enough the part of your brain that is used for math is used driving and riding. So if your trying to figure you fuel milage while you ride, or how many miles to your next exit, or what 15% of the last pay check you got is, you are more likely to wreck than when talking to someone on a cell phone. Try to add 12 + 15 x 6- 15% while your driving. You will be amazed at how much of your driving brain it uses.
Now lets take that a little further.
Say your having a argument with someone you love on a cell phone not hands free over money. Now you are a real danger to yourself and others.

 

[OneTrack]

You didn't read my response properly... He said he thought he should be allowed to do as he wishes, it's his right, because he's an adult.

Oh boy...that's strike 2 as far as I'm concerned. That's NOT what I said at all. Please read it again:-

"It's an individual, personal choice base on rights, and fully understanding our responsibilities as adults, and our willingness to accept the consequences of our actions."

That's a very far cry from your interpretation, mate. OTOH, you stated very clearly that a person listening to an iPod was the same as dangerous as a drunken driver in a statement directed to me personally, and I initially ignored it: (added emphasis is mine)

"Drunk drivers tend to use that argument.... No problems though, just let me know which roads you are riding so I can avoid them."

That's just a tad personal and unwarranted, don't you think?

 

[wrightme43]

I do want to qualify one thing.
I was a sonarman. We used passive sound to navigate at speeds in excess of 20 knots under the ocean. I am not going to discuss at what speed we began to travel basicly for all intents and purposes blind. I am sure you know why.

We were able to do this, using a multi million dollar system, with 4 trained operators, and a supervisor, by constantly tracking where a sound was in relation to our ship. Its bearing rate allowed us to aproximate a course and speed. We would turn our ship to triangulate the distance, speed, and course. Then without the computer systems we still would of closed range, visually verified course and speed, then we would of had a firing solution on the target.

Bats use it. However they use Active echo location, and are highly evolved (or created) to handle it. Dolphins and whales use it, but in the water it is so much more effective since water is so dense.

Many animals use sound to find thier prey. They are however not running at top speed when they do it.

 

[CanadianFZ6]

Ok.

If that is not what you meant thats not what you meant.

My experince with riding and driving with music is that when used by a individual with some kind of common sense it is safe. When used by someone one without any sense it is not safe.

I turn my stero down when I see things on the road that require more attention. For example and not all inclusive. Construction, heavy traffic, places where I dont know where I am going. I just push pause on the ipod on the bike.

On the topic of semi trucks sneaking up on you, its not the fault of your ears. If you will read the link above you, it will explain why.

Sound behaves in a certain manner based on the terrain, speed, distance, temp, and closing rate. It is not a effective tool for riding, driving, flying or anything moving at more than a walking pace and barely even then, and it requires a cane, and years of practice. Basicly as I see it your argument is that someone who has headphones on is a danger to you and your family. If that is the case, and by that reasoning people who are deaf should not be allowed to drive, or people with out hearing aids. It is not a argument that can be won. Listening to music uses a completely different part of the brain than having a conversation. Talking with someone in your car uses much more of your brains processing power than listening to music. Would you like to ban coversation while driving as well? Obviously not. But by following the same logic you can get to that answer. Humans are completly able to do this. Our brains are great at multitasking.
Talking on a hands free cell phone is fine too.
Now this is a problem when driving or riding. Doing math in your head. Oddlly enough the part of your brain that is used for math is used driving and riding. So if your trying to figure you fuel milage while you ride, or how many miles to your next exit, or what 15% of the last pay check you got is, you are more likely to wreck than when talking to someone on a cell phone. Try to add 12 + 15 x 6- 15% while your driving. You will be amazed at how much of your driving brain it uses.
Now lets take that a little further.
Say your having a argument with someone you love on a cell phone not hands free over money. Now you are a real danger to yourself and others.

I haven't read the article yet (I will), but I think you are referring to the "Doppler effect"? I know that's why I (we) have trouble hearing vehicles approaching from behind while at speed. I was saying, when I wear ear plugs, it's even that much more difficult. I live in southern Ontario, Canada. The 401 series highways here are the busiest highways in North America. The # of big rigs is unbelievable at times. Sometimes there are so many they are basically one solid convoy for hundreds of Kms. Anyway... i'ts my foolish hope that all these guys/girls are paying full attention while doing 120+km down the highway.

 

[wrightme43]

On the major highways with solid traffic I just wear earplugs. No matter what though I dont even with headphones in not pay attention. The other guys not paying attention is totally expected. LOL I sorta pretend they are out to sneak up on my and run me over.


Its not the doppler effect I am refering to.
It is refraction, and reflection, and cancelation. Sounds bend for lack of a better word.
Sounds dont always come from where they are coming from. I am not saying dont listen, what I am saying is no matter what verify with your eyes.
Walking in a parking lot now with electric cars is a perfect example. A Prius will slip right up, no problems, no noise.
And like I said a few time already, its not a black or white issue. Its a it depends subject. If I were to be riding on the interstate all day it would be just ear plugs. If I am going on a scenery ride with two lanes, where the major worry is deer and turkey strikes, I take the ipod. If I am going on a aggresive twisty ride, I just wear ear plugs.

 

[Nelly]

Again, you're equating wearing an iPod on a bike to the actions of a fool who was not using his other available senses.....his eyes and COMMON SENSE. You don't just walk out into traffic without being even remotely concerned that there just might be a ton and a half of glass and steel barreling towards you or a motorcycle. I cannot see my other senses diminished one iota because I happen to have music playing in my ears....If anything, it would tend to heighten my other senses. Oh, and btw...I cannot for the life of me imagine a situation where a car would honk at me, rather than me honking at the car. As motorcyclists, we (by necessity) are natural defensive riders/drivers.
Anyhow, as I said...I haven't tried using my iPod yet on my bike, so I'm keeping a very open mind. If I based all my life decisions on the reported actions of idiots, I'd become a monk.

I cannot see my other senses diminished one iota because I happen to have music playing in my ears....If anything, it would tend to heighten my other senses.

You have state that you haven't tried it yet, so how do you think that it will heighten your senses? With a period of time maybe.
Oh, and btw...I cannot for the life of me imagine a situation where a car would honk at me, rather than me honking at the car. As motorcyclists, we (by necessity) are natural defensive riders/drivers.
Anyhow,

Are you asuming the horn is only going to be used if you make a mistake. What happens if some one is trying to warn you. You lost your tail pack, you got a strap flapping close to your wheel or chain.
Are you that good that you have never been honked?
as I said...I haven't tried using my iPod yet on my bike, so I'm keeping a very open mind. If I based all my life decisions on the reported actions of idiots, I'd become a monk.[/QUOTE]

Your getting a little defensive, Im not having a pop at you, I think 007 has quite a good solution with the ear buds. This is a public debate in which you are going to here a variety of opinions.
No ones asking you to become a monk so chill.
My point is, that because he was totally engulfed in his music. He simply lost concentration for a second.

Again, you're equating wearing an iPod on a bike to the actions of a fool who was not using his other available senses.....

Yes he was a stupid fool, would he have done the same thing if he was not listening to music?

Please try thr ipod, I honestly hope that you find it enchances your riding experience. Let us know how you get on with it.

Neil

 

[HavBlue]

On the major highways with solid traffic I just wear earplugs. No matter what though I dont even with headphones in not pay attention. The other guys not paying attention is totally expected. LOL I sorta pretend they are out to sneak up on my and run me over.


Its not the doppler effect I am refering to.
It is refraction, and reflection, and cancelation. Sounds bend for lack of a better word.
Sounds dont always come from where they are coming from. I am not saying dont listen, what I am saying is no matter what verify with your eyes.
Walking in a parking lot now with electric cars is a perfect example. A Prius will slip right up, no problems, no noise.
And like I said a few time already, its not a black or white issue. Its a it depends subject. If I were to be riding on the interstate all day it would be just ear plugs. If I am going on a scenery ride with two lanes, where the major worry is deer and turkey strikes, I take the ipod. If I am going on a aggresive twisty ride, I just wear ear plugs.

I think you have left something out here. Sound is very directional and depending on the frequency of the sound, it can either be heard for inches or miles depending on the medium it is traveling through. Hearing is but one of our human ways for the brain to gather information. Without it, we switch to another source be it sight, feeling etc.etc. The deaf ride so sound or hearing is not a fundamental necessity when it comes to riding as we do have other ways of being aware of the things around us. On the FZ6 I don't need to see a vehicle coming up behind because I can feel it when it gets close enough. How can I feel it? Easy, it disturbs the air flow coming off me and the bike to the point I can tell it is there. This is especially true with something big like a rig or full size truck. The opposite holds true for something along the lines of a Corvette that slips through the air creating little or no push.

I will however say there is nothing common about common sense.

 

[DrBart2]

My wife and I have J&M communication systems on our bikes. The speakers are mounted to the helmets and don't block outside noise too much. The only time I listen to my ipod with this system is if I am going to be riding more than thirty minutes at a time. With the music loud enough for me to hear it I am still able to hear road noises. Maybe not as well as without the music, I haven't noticed any increased dangers ( like being surprised by another vehicle). Riding a motorcycle should be like flying a fighter aircraft in enemy territory. You are constantly looking and scanning. Going from side, front, mirror, instruments, always knowing if someone is near you and what is going on around you. If you have this habit, and don't let the music distract you from this habit, then I believe you will be OK. Besides, having your wife laugh in your ear when you accidentally down shift when you meant to up-shift is much more distracting than any music!!!!!!