520/Chain Maintenance

[CrappyAlloy]

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster here. I bought a used 08 FZ6 with 8k miles on it back in October, and have used this forum for numerous things up to this point, it currently has 11.5k miles on it.

Anyways while going over some basic maintenance the other day (checking engine oil, tire pressure, chain slack, etc) it seemed to me that my chain was a little too loose. Now I've read through these threads:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/42317-chain-adjustment.html

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...25-extremely-stupid-chain-slack-question.html

And I seem to be having the same problem. When on the center stand, from just behind that rubber/plastic guard my chain hits the swing arm on the upward travel before stopping, however it has virtually no downward play (meaning from the chains resting position on the center stand, if I press downward, the chain maybe moves a couple of millimeters). From the tightest point it does this, as well as any other point it seems.

I understand that if the bike is on the centerstand then the suspension is extended and so their may not be much play downward for the chain, which makes me wonder why in the manual it even talks about upwards and downwards play to begin with. (Unless this means my chain is in fact in the correct range?)

While looking into other reasons why I might be having this problem, I realized that the previous owner swapped the stock 530 chain for a 520 one. Specifically the LM520 SOX. The only thing I could find on this chain was that it's by Parts Unlimited and is an x-ring 520 chain (anyone know if this chain is any good?). I have no idea of the number of links mine has, I do know the rear sprocket is still 46 teeth, though I also don't know how many the front has (if the previous owner changed that or not too).

So I guess my question is, does this 520 chain somehow effect the chain slack measurement? Would it still need to be in the 1.77-2.2" zone? If it doesnt effect the measurement then what exactly is it I'm doing wrong?

Thanks in advance

 

[Carlos840]

I think that's normal...

As gravity pulls the chain down you will always have more play upwards than downwards.
The manual doesn't mention mention upwards and downwards, it mentions total play, so combine your upwards and downwards play and you have your total play, which should be between 45.0–55.0 mm (1.77–2.17 in).

If you have a couple millimeters going down, but a couple inches going up, you are good.

Personally i don't have a center stand and have always set my chain slack up with some sort of upwards tension on the swing arm, seems more logical to me.
I now use a rear paddock stand, but started using the 2*4 method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tjfg-GnjOs

The bike prefers to be on the larger side of the slack range, 2" and you are good.

Now, regarding the 520 chain i can't really help, i assume the slack should be the same as it really is depending rear suspension design rather than chain thickness.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Wecome to the forum!!! :welcome:

Agreed with Carlos' post ^^^.

My chain touches the bottom of the swingarm as well when on the centerstand and measuring freeplay. **Moderate/light pressure downwards will take play out of the TOP RUN of the chain.

The smaller chain shouldn't make a difference, just make sure its clean and lubed before checking/adjusting. It, of course, will tighten up once on the ground. I've found 2" to be the magic #. Just make sure your checking at the tightest point in the chain

As for your particular brand chain, if you can find out the brand itself, an opinion can be rendered.

In either case, if its in good shape, I'd run it until its worn out. Being slightly smaller than stock, it may stretch a little more than stock.

I have yet to re-adjust my DID X ring chain since installed 5,000 miles ago..

You should be fine...

 

[Carlos840]

Any thoughts on adjusting on the center stand vs adjust on a paddock stand?

The manual says "Place the vehicle on a suitable stand so that the rear wheel is elevated." It doesn't mention anywhere to put the bike on the center stand!

To me it seems very weird to adjust the chain with the bike on the center stand since the swingarm is under no pressure and just hangs down.
It seems that you would end up with a different result once you put the bike back down.

Someone with a center stand should adjust on the center stand, then put the bike on a paddock stand and see if the measurements are the same!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Any thoughts on adjusting on the center stand vs adjust on a paddock stand?

The manual says "Place the vehicle on a suitable stand so that the rear wheel is elevated." It doesn't mention anywhere to put the bike on the center stand!

To me it seems very weird to adjust the chain with the bike on the center stand since the swingarm is under no pressure and just hangs down.
It seems that you would end up with a different result once you put the bike back down.

Someone with a center stand should adjust on the center stand, then put the bike on a paddock stand and see if the measurements are the same!

I read somewhere for bikes without the CC, check/ adjust on the ground (really the same as the paddock stand) the same as if CC equipped. You'll still have to find the tight spot.

Re the paddock stand, I have front and rear paddock stands but don't have spools /bobbins attached to the swingarm. I'd be curious how you atached yours to the swingarm.

 

[Carlos840]

My paddock stand came with a choice of of attachments, you have either V shaped brackets for spools/bobbins, or L shaped plates that go under the swing arm.

It's very stable and easy to use, i feel confident using it alone.

Motorcycle paddock stand rear ConStands Universal-Racing red

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ok, thought you had spools..

I have Pit bull stands, this is for the rear but the ends aren't flat, their round where it goes under the swingarm:

http://www.pit-bull.com/mm5/merchan...duct_Code=F0002-000&Category_Code=rear_stands

 

[Carlos840]

That should still work no?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That should still work no?

Using the paddock stand or the rear wheel on the ground will have the same effect, (some weight on the swing arm) so I don't see any difference...:thumbup:

 

[CrappyAlloy]

The manual doesn't mention mention upwards and downwards, it mentions total play, so combine your upwards and downwards play and you have your total play, which should be between 45.0–55.0 mm (1.77–2.17 in).

If you have a couple millimeters going down, but a couple inches going up, you are good.

Wecome to the forum!!! :welcome:

Agreed with Carlos' post ^^^.

My chain touches the bottom of the swingarm as well when on the centerstand and measuring freeplay. **Moderate/light pressure downwards will take play out of the TOP RUN of the chain.

The smaller chain shouldn't make a difference, just make sure its clean and lubed before checking/adjusting. It, of course, will tighten up once on the ground. I've found 2" to be the magic #. Just make sure your checking at the tightest point in the chain

As for your particular brand chain, if you can find out the brand itself, an opinion can be rendered.

Thanks for the replies guys. I understand the downward play bit, as well as combining them to get the freeplay. What I still don't understand is, if for example TownsendsFJR1300 your chain hits the swing arm on the upward travel, how do you know you're actually at the 2" mark since you don't know when/where the chain would stop if not for the swing arm?

Perhaps I am missing something pretty obvious lol and if I am, I apologize.

If you don't mind me asking TownsendsFJR1300, would you measure how far away the chain is from the center stand when the center stand is up and the bike is on the normal kickstand, at it's closest point? I know there is nothing in the manual about this, it's just from eyeballing mine (I'll need to measure it later) it looks like it's only 1-1.5" away from hitting the center stand which seems too close to me. (Maybe I'm just paranoid)

As for the chain itself, this is all I could find by googling the markings on the side of the chain
http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/CATALOGS/PUST10/PUST10PG961.pdf

 

[Carlos840]

Have you tried measuring with the bike on the ground?
Or at least with pressure on the swingarm?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you don't mind me asking TownsendsFJR1300, would you measure how far away the chain is from the center stand when the center stand is up and the bike is on the normal kickstand, at it's closest point? I know there is nothing in the manual about this, it's just from eyeballing mine (I'll need to measure it later) it looks like it's only 1-1.5" away from hitting the center stand which seems too close to me. (Maybe I'm just paranoid)

And for Carlos too W/O a CC,


Just checked mine on the CC and on the side stand.

Now I'm measuring from the lowest part of the plastic, swingarm protector.

The chain does touch the bottom of the swing arm at full droop but barely.

(If you look at that protector, its actually got a groove machined in it for the chain going up and down to prtect the swing arm).

Measuring from the center of the tightest pin, its exactly 2"(full up, center a tape measure, then pull down, again using the tape measure).

As for your question, if you pull down on the chain and get more than 2", its TOO loose, (and vise versa if too tight and can't get 2")

Now, (for Carlos), I measured (and had the same pin in the same location) with the bike simply on the sidestand, at rest, under its own weight. (I do keep the rear spring on the softest setting). The chain play, obviously with the swing arm more horzontal now, was tighter by approx 1/8".

Just a side note, the FZ has one of the loosest chain settings of most bikes... You have to remember that once you load the bike, (between your weight, the bikes weight, the swingwarm straightens out(more horizontal) and the chain tightens. Its no where's 2" loose once underway.

Make sense?

 

[Carlos840]

Thanks for taking the time to do that!

I'm actually surprised that there is so little difference, you would think that the weight of the bike would be enough to tighten things a bit more...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks for taking the time to do that!

I'm actually surprised that there is so little difference, you would think that the weight of the bike would be enough to tighten things a bit more...

Your welcome Carlos.

You do have to remember, it was on the side stand, so the weights distributed at THREE POINTS, not two (just the tires). If I held it straight up, I'm sure it would be tighter. Put more weight, tighter yet of course.

Yep, I thought it would be a little tighter. I guess that's why Yamaha (from what I read) has the tightness setting the same without the CC..

**I would thou, if checking the tightness on the side stand, get as much weight on the sidestand (as if the swingarm is as low / hanging as possible)

Actually, if you had a helper lean on the right side of the bike (on the kick stand), getting almost (if not all) the load off the swingarm, it'd measure up the same as if on the centerstand (the swing arm would be pretty much at full droop)

 

[FinalImpact]

An artist I am not so I'll try to paint a virtual picture.

First off, look at where the swing arm pivots from. Its inches away from the the drive sprocket. If however, its pivot was from the same location as the front drive sprocket, the chain would have the same tension regardless of the swing arm position. i.e it could be 90°, 180° or 270° and the chain tension would not change. However, its actual pivot now plays a huge role in chain tension based upon the angle of the swing arm (SA).
When the front sprocket, the pivot, and SA are all in alignment the chain has maximum tension because the rear driven sprocket is at its maximum distance from the front drive sprocket because they are 180° opposite each other.

In short - if all bikes made have 300 mm length fully extended rear shock, we can compare all bikes while the rear tire hangs down. Spring tension has nothing to do with this as the there is no load on the rear shock so all things are equal.

For those without a center stand you need to know this:
When the SA is straight out, flat 180° opposite and inline with the front sprocket (via SA pivot), does the chain have adequate slack or is it too tight??
You have to duplicate this condition!!!!! You could load the bike until the SA is straight to produce a maximum required chain length (sit on it) but it needs to be straight or it could bind when you hit bumps and it does straighten out! Placing it on the padoc stand is bike weight, but how does the slack look with bike and rider? What does the the SA angle look like?

As Scott and Carlos know, I replaced my rear shock. It has more travel than the OEM shock but it is the same eye to eye length as the OEM. Because of this I can use the same chain slack measurement as specified by Yamaha.

Its a valid point about the chain hitting the SA on the upstroke as it now stops movement. So if the measured number now exceeds spec, its likely too loose. But if pulling it down and raising it up it still comes short of maximum spec, well you should add weight until the SA is striaght out, and see what slack you have!

A quick visual using our friends!
Identify friends:
- front sprocket
- S/A pivot
Blah - rear sprocket

Swing arm pivots same arc as front sprocket
--------------------- Blah

=========================
Actual:
Swing Arm pivot on its own arc

-- --------------- Blah

From this we see that when the swing arm (b l a h) is straight in line with the other two smiles, this is when our chain would be most taunt. But when the Swing arm hangs down, b l a h is closer to so the chain gets slack.

 

[Carlos840]

That was beautiful!

 

[FinalImpact]

That was beautiful!

Blah FTW! :thumbup:

I thought I had a picture of me on the bike to see the loaded SA angle but I was on the kickstand. Picture was for rider position and seat work. But you can see that with the stand down, the suspension didn't compress much. Anyway, now you have me curious about my own bike! lol But I run it loose so its quiet!

Also, something I advocate about bike setup can be see here. Notice my fingers are nearly straight in line with my wrist and forearms?? The OEM lever position has your wrists pitched upwards to reach the lever which cuts off circulation. Point: adjust those levers so your wrists are parallel to your forearm so you have a straight pull.

 

[FinalImpact]

In short - if all FZ6's use a 300 mm length fully extended rear shock, we can compare chain slack on them while the rear tire hangs down.

I corrected this so its not taken out of context. We are just talking about this bike!

For anyone who modified the shock length to "lower the bike" the chain slack number will be different for your bike. Specifically those who shortened the lower section of the shock as this made the eye to eye distance shorter.

Also, although mine has more travel now, it may make the chain too loose as it bottoms. So far it has not been an issue but its something to be aware of. Honestly all I was looking for at the time was would the tire hit anything and it didn't.

 

[Carlos840]

Also, something I advocate about bike setup can be see here. Notice my fingers are nearly straight in line with my wrist and forearms?? The OEM lever position has your wrists pitched upwards to reach the lever which cuts off circulation. Point: adjust those levers so your wrists are parallel to your forearm so you have a straight pull.

Big +1 on that!

Tilting the levers down makes it so much more comfortable. One problem though is hat if you want the levers to be aligned you end up with crooked mirrors, if you want aligned mirrors, your levers will be at different heights.
(the mirrors are mounted on the lever bracket)

At least this is how it is on the naked model... No idea why they didn't give both sides the same angle!

 

[FinalImpact]

Big +1 on that!

Tilting the levers down makes it so much more comfortable. One problem though is hat if you want the levers to be aligned you end up with crooked mirrors, if you want aligned mirrors, your levers will be at different heights.
(the mirrors are mounted on the lever bracket)

At least this is how it is on the naked model... No idea why they didn't give both sides the same angle!

Bend them once you know what you want! :thumbup: