86 FZ600 Wont crank over.

[Tedpro]

Hello, I'm new the forum, and my 1986 FZ600 has been acting up.
I recently bought it , and everything was working great.
After about a week it started to get progressively worse , and now it just wont turn over.
--I'm not sure if this is the issue, but I put mid grade gasoline in it.

I took it too a mechanic and hes convinced that I need some fuel parts to get it working properly, so I found whats called a "used 1986 fuel pump set" on ebay, and I am currently waiting for it.
--Others have told me the bike does not have a fuel pump
The description below is from what I found on another forum, but unfortunately it was the users only post.
Does anyone have any ideas?

-Thanks,
Ted

Board Message

I have a 1986 fz600 (not fzr, but I'm hoping you guys can help anyway) that I'm in the process of getting running. So far I've cleaned the carbs and changed the oil. I'm at the point where I think she'd fire up if she'd turn over, but she won't. The funny thing is, that during the process of checking the charge in the battery when I purchased the bike, the engine was able to crank under its own power but now it seems like that is not the case. I've been going through the various electrical systems and so far have found nothing to be at fault, and the starter is able to crank the engine but its only when I short the starter solenoid itself (without spark of course). The only electrical component that was removed and then re-installed after the initial crank-over was the ignition module. Although I'm unfamiliar with transistorized ignition systems, I don't see how that could be the issue?

The start button causes the oil light to turn on, so I know that the start button circuit is not at fault. All the wires from the run switch, the light circuit, kickstand circuit and clutch circuit have been similarly tested with a multi-meter and they are all good. All these wires run through the flasher relay, and so far there is nothing to indicate that it is at fault either.

So far, I know that something is impeding the circuit between the start button and the starter solenoid but I'm running out of troubleshooting ideas, except to buy a full new set of mysterious black boxes (ignition box, diode box, flasher relay) when the ones I have are probably good anyway.

If anybody has any suggestion on how to narrow this problem, that would be much appreciated.

 

[Hellgate]

Is the battery fully charged? Are you getting any power to the dash? eg: are the idiot lights turning on? Sounds to me like the battery ran down. If it is dead can you bump start it or put it on a trickle charger?

Read your post a second time, I don't recall a fuel pump on that bike, could be wrong. I'm pretty sure that is a gravity fed system. Have you down loaded the service manual for it?

 

[Tedpro]

Yeah lights are showing up on the dash.
The mechanic said the battery was bad as well.
So I assume he tried it after replacing it.

I found diagrams on website : bikebandit.com
-- I don't think I found a fuel pump for anything, but I did order this part :

Yamaha FZ 600 Year 1986 FZ600 fuel pump set:eBay Motors (item 370221025428 end time Aug-31-09 15:54:41 PDT)

 

[Hellgate]

Have you tried bump starting it?

 

[Tedpro]

by bump start you mean drop clutch in 2nd gear while rolling?

Yes I have done this, and this did work for a while.

Now all it does it just try to turn over over.

 

[Fahren]

There is no fuel pump on theses bikes so cancel ur order...both me and my bro have 1987 model FZ600's...you say the only thing u removed was the ignition module? by that do you mean the little black box thats normally bolted to the top of the airbox? if so its called the CDI unit and if thats gone then ur bike wont start.....get a tin of electrical contact cleaner and clean every electrical connection u can. Are u getting a spark at the plugs? and is there fuel getting through..ur plugs will be wet if there is.

Again check and clean all connections, re-charge the battery, it wouldnt hurt to run some carb cleaner through the carbs either cos these bikes are notorious for gumming up if not used frequently.

When u try to start the bike does the engine crank or do u get a constant clicking...if its cranking id look at the CDI unit (might just need the connections cleaning) if its clicking then charge ur battery...make sure its topped up!...if it still clicks with a fully charged battery id say possible ur starter motor needs looking at. (my bro had same problem and ended up replacing his starter motor)....its a pain cos it could be something silly but its a case of cleaning and checking first then possibly look at replacing parts....let us know how u get on and post some pics

Hmm i just looked at the ebay link u posted...my bike doesnt have a fuel pump but then i have a UK model...not sure if US models have one but maybe its off the FZ750?...ill have a look at my FZ600 Haynes manuel

 

[Tedpro]

Hey Fahren,
--Sorry that 2nd part of my first post - its from another forum, that had a similar issue to me - but not the same issue.

So it should still have ignition module.

Unfortunately its with the mechanic right now, and he is certain that my motorcycle requires a fuel pump. He is completely stumped on how it ran gravity fed. I regret taking it to him , but since I have no way of moving it - I need to prove to him that it doesn't require a fuel pump.

When I try starting the bike, I do not receive clicking. Its cranking but not starting.

I will advise him to clean the CDI unit .

Any other ideas?

The part for the ebay product: I was able to find it on the one of the Fuel Tank Diagrams for FZ600SC(california) from http://www.bikebandit.com , the FZ600S does not have this. I'm not even sure if this product is even a fuel pump.

 

[Tedward]

Hey Ted. I'm Ted. I also have an '86 FZ600 that I recently bought. Although I am having issues, not the same one.

Your "fuel pump".. That's the evaporative emission control unit on california models. From my understanding of it it isn't even needed to run the bike. All it does is catch vapour, store it if the bike isn't running, and burn them off in the carbs when the bike is running. I agree with the "cancel your order" recommendation if there's any way you can.

 

[Tedward]

He is completely stumped on how it ran gravity fed.

We are talking about your fuel delivery right? Assuming you have the original pet**** it's a vacuum system. You should have two lines coming from it, one is the fuel line which goes down into the carbs, the other is a vacuum line that attaches to the #2 carb. You have 3 options on the fuel valve. "on" and "res", both need the vacuum working, which means fuel only flows when engine is running. "pri" is prime and bypasses the vacuum so fuel with flow all the time. You should only use pri if you've ran out of fuel or taken things apart, star the bike then switch it to "on".

 

[Tedpro]

Hey Ted :thumbup:

I can pass than onto the mechanic.
Is it possible that having it on one of these incorrect settings , I would be getting the problem I am experiencing?

-Thanks

 

[Tedward]

Well if there's no fuel in the line and it's set to on or res then it could cause the engine to not start.. no fuel already there to start the engine means no vacuum to let more fuel flow down right?

Personally I would set it to prime (pointing to the back of the bike I believe), let it sit for a few seconds and try to start it in that position. If it fires up, set it back to "on". If it dies again then you know you have an issue with the vacuum, be it the carb, vacuum line, or inside the pet****. If it keeps running then you should be good to just leave it set to "on", even when the bike isn't running - Lack of vacuum automatically closes the flow of the fuel.

I also installed a clear fuel filter in my line where I can see it with the bike together (no lower fairings) to see if there's fuel there or not. Takes a bit of the guesswork out of it.

There are of course plenty of other possibilities... Did you test your spark plugs at all? If we assume those are fine... Could be a blocked fuel line, bad compressions, leaking head gasket, choke or throttle not operating properly.. If the spark is no good then could be the ignition coil, ingitor unit, bad electrical connection someplace..

More serious possibilities.. broken starter gears,, siezed pistons or crankshaft bearings.. locked up transmission or clutch..

Anyways I'd say start with the pet**** and make sure you're getting a good supply of clean fuel, before we worry about the other stuff

 

[Hellgate]

Hey Ted. I'm Ted. I also have an '86 FZ600 that I recently bought. Although I am having issues, not the same one.

Your "fuel pump".. That's the evaporative emission control unit on california models. From my understanding of it it isn't even needed to run the bike. All it does is catch vapour, store it if the bike isn't running, and burn them off in the carbs when the bike is running. I agree with the "cancel your order" recommendation if there's any way you can.

Ditch the evap can, you don't need it, BUT if you are in Cali hang onto it.

My guess is you need a new battery. Then begin trouble shooting from there. You need three things in order to start the bike, spark, fuel and compression. If you have those three things you're good to go. But as mentioned on a 20 year old, 25 year old bike you will probably need to clean most connections on the harness including the plug in to the CDI. Electric bugs can be a big pain with older bikes.

Good luck with it! :thumbup:

 

[Tedpro]

Whats the spark plug gap supposed to be on these bikes?

 

[Fred]

Post deleted. I just stuck my foot in my mouth.

 

[Tedward]

Whats the spark plug gap supposed to be on these bikes?

0.6-0.7mm

Post deleted. I just stuck my foot in my mouth.

mmm foot

 

[Fahren]

Damn we will never know now cos u deleted ur foot!!! I lost me main lights the other night...checked fuses....checked bulbs...checked switch gear etc high beam worked but not main...turns out it was a corroded connection, lights work now!!

Sorry didnt realise ur main post was from another guy...but yes check power, spark and gas...get a cup and pull the main fuel pipe from the fuel tap and turn it to the on position if fuel flows u can eliminate the tank petc0ck...or just ask the mechanic to check if the plugs are wet.....how much do mechanics charge per hour over there...£35 here!

 

[Tedpro]

So I got the bike back.
Put the new gas cap on(the one before was falling apart)
Tried started , and no work.
But I bump started it in first gear, started up great - and now normal start works.
And since I've had it , it killed itself after a long ride when I was coming to a stop.

any ideas?
I'm thinking it was just battery.

The way the guy before me has this riged is that one of the fuel lines is blocked off from the pet****.

Also how often should I do oil changes on this bike? What type of oil should I use?

 

[Fred]

It sounds like your charging system is not working. Check that out. There's a good thread here somewhere about charging system diagnosis.

Also, the manual for your bike is only $35 on Amazon. Pick that up, and it'll answer all of your current questions.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/CLYMER-MANUAL-YX600-FZ600-M388/dp/B002CL96E6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1253290448&sr=8-4]Amazon.com: CLYMER MANUAL YAM YX600 & FZ600 86-90 M388: Automotive[/ame]

Cheers,
Fred

P.S. My foot in mouth post was to the effect of,"You're all idiots. That bike has a fuel pump between the tank and carbs. And if you don't know that, don't give out advice on the internet." Then I saw that you're talking about the FZ600, and I was thinking of the FZ700. So I'm the idiot.

 

[Fahren]

my bike did the same i.e. ran fine till i put the lights on then after 20 miles it stopped dead...turns out it was possibly the bushes in the generator housing or one of the electrical connections....not sure which but i cleaned and checked the connectors and the bushes and the bike worked after that...

hehehe foot in mouth bit i see what ya mean FRED i also thought it was maybe from an FZ750 but then i thought maybe the US model is different from UK spec......no worries either way! my bike is no more, it was destroyed in a head on smash on wednesday!! :spank:

http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf
this is the link Shamus put on here for me when i asked about power probs hope it helps you as much as it did me,.....cheers shamus!!

 

[Tedward]

Hey Ted,

Any luck?