Attn: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

[RadarContact]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

You did. I guess the question is, does the ECU detect every occurrence of it misbehaving or just extremes like above 2000 RPM?

I think that any time it goes into the high idle, and it's like a switch that gets turned on when it does, the bike will code 37 and when I shut it off it clatters. However...if I then start it the next time and it doesn't high-idle, then the code will actually go away. (It gets stored in history, but no CEL type lights or codes displayed after it "fixes itself".)

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

Baseline;
What is the process to sync the TBs and set idle speed??

Example:

See that valve assembly with the large round tubes? This is Doing the same thing your LSC valve is doing. Well, sorta; as it does three things. The 4 brass screws allow us to Sync the throttle bodies. The hose and valves on the rightside, look at coolant temperature and adjust RPM for engine temperature. The thumb screw adjusts air volume for idle speed.
Your idle air is via the ECU and looks at AIR & WATER temps, Altitude (pressure), and current idle RPM as well as perhaps system load (Alternator).
POINT: both bikes need the throttle blades set proper to control the idle air or the Sync screws and idle speed can not be set or work properly.

Is there a TSB or section in the FSM on how to properly set the initial Throttle blade opening AND Idle Air (sync screws)??? Please list it here!

 

[RadarContact]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

Baseline;
What is the process to sync the TBs and set idle speed??

Example:

See that valve assembly with the large round tubes? This is Doing the same thing your LSC valve is doing. Well, sorta; as it does three things. The 4 brass screws allow us to Sync the throttle bodies. The hose and valves on the rightside, look at coolant temperature and adjust RPM for engine temperature. The thumb screw adjusts air volume for idle speed.
Your idle air is via the ECU and looks at AIR & WATER temps, Altitude (pressure), and current idle RPM as well as perhaps system load (Alternator).
POINT: both bikes need the throttle blades set proper to control the idle air or the Sync screws and idle speed can not be set or work properly.

Is there a TSB or section in the FSM on how to properly set the initial Throttle blade opening AND Idle Air (sync screws)??? Please list it here!

I want to sincerely apologize for leaving this thread hanging. I'm very sorry. To be honest, I got overwhelmed; you guys are so knowledgeable that some of the things were a little over my head. I diverted my attention to some non-engine-related mods on the bike because I was just so frustrated with the high-idle problem.

I purchased a stock ECU from a forum buddy and the bike ran perfectly for a while. I thought maybe the reflash WAS the issue. Then it started again even with the stock ECU.

Let me ask a question (if anyone is even still remotely interested in helping me out)...
The ISC valve connector MOLEX is a 6-wire version, all connected back to the ECU. The four "corner" wires are different colors and when I checked ohms at the ISC connector and at the other end ECU connector, I got consistent readings of 0.3-0.5 with the average reading hanging at 0.4 ohms. The two middle wires are both red/black and I believe are grounds. One goes to the ECU fuse then to the ECU, and the other I believe goes straight to to the ECU. Those wires, I think by the schematics, connect at some point in the harness. Those wires both read 1.4 ohms (1.3-1.5 fluctuating but mostly at 1.4).

I'm asking anothe Strat owner to check his to see if his gives the same results.

Since (we think?) the ISC valve is controlled by varying the ground...is this a good thing to be checking or just spinning my wheels?

My mods (batwing, custom dash w/stereo, a VOLTMETER, and a dedicated SAE connection for my battery tender) now allow me to monitor my voltage and the SAE connector SHOULD allow me to conveniently check my battery voltage by touching my digital voltmeter to the hot and ground posts on that connector, correct?

Thanks and again, I'm embarrassed to have left you guys hanging.

// Radar //

 

[RadarContact]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

I just went out to the bike and put my dvm on DC volts, and held them up to the battery tender "port" that's now installed on the bike's dash.

Pulled the tender off
Checked voltage - 13.1
Started bike - 13.1 then climbed up steadily
Went into "fast idle mode" after 20 seconds or so (like usual), and engine trouble light came on - right at about 13.98
Continued to climb until it peaked out at 14.1+
(Engine didn't race too badly this time, only about 1200 rpms; should be holding between 850-950. Yesterday after a 45 minute ride, it wouldn't go below 2500 rpms!)

// Radar //

P.s.
I'm going to re-read this thread tomorrow and see if I understand it better this time.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

It may have already been discussed, and this is for Yamaha Outboard engines, the ISC IS controlled by the ground wire. A characteristic of a bad ISC is VERY HIGH temps to the ISC (+210F, see below link)

The ECU sends out the signal to increase or decrease the ISC valve but does NOT monitor if it actually did anything...


Wether that applies for your bike IDK. Just a note for the all trying to help..


POST #2;
ISC valve replace? - Yamaha Outboard Parts Forum (By Rodbolt, a master marine mechanic)

 

[RadarContact]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

It may have already been discussed, and this is for Yamaha Outboard engines, the ISC IS controlled by the ground wire. A characteristic of a bad ISC is VERY HIGH temps to the ISC (+210F, see below link)

The ECU sends out the signal to increase or decrease the ISC valve but does NOT monitor if it actually did anything...


Wether that applies for your bike IDK. Just a note for the all trying to help..


POST #2;
ISC valve replace? - Yamaha Outboard Parts Forum (By Rodbolt, a master marine mechanic)

Thanks for your comments.
I replaced the ISC with a new one because I assumed it was indeed the problem. I put a new one in and it made no difference. I have since "discovered" that the Strat has a diagnostic mode where I can actually test the ISC using the run/kill switch as a toggle -- it runs perfectly in that setting. So I am convinced that the physical properties of the ISC are good, I.e., good valve that is getting bad instructions.

I realize what you said about the ISC / ECU relationship...it is a dumb relationship. Lol
For some reason, it just tells it to open, or keeps telling it to open. Or there is a short somewhere that is interrupting the signal and it stays open. Not sure if when I stat the bike if the ISC is in an open or closed or nominal position. ??

// Radar //

P.s.
I ran over the schematics with a friend today. He's the Chief of Maintenance for our radar, radio, and navigational aid systems at work (Air Traffic Control). He immediately corrected me about the red/black wires. He said red/black is the marker for FUSED POWER. He then quickly showed me how the red wire comes from the battery to the ECU fuse then turns rad/black all the way to the ISC and ECU. I'm still learning...

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

Baseline;
What is the process to sync the TBs and set idle speed??


Is there a TSB or section in the FSM on how to properly set the initial Throttle blade opening AND Idle Air (sync screws)??? Please list it here!

If all parts work - its the process.... Follow the process!

 

[yamihoe]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

Does the bike ECU use the TPS as a factor when varying the gound/signal to the ISC (Im used to it being a IAC lol, apologies if I slip up)

In some vehicles when the ecu detects a TPS above a certain % it will trigger an alternate, higher idle to decrease engine braking and make for smoother transitions from on to off throttle. If you did the TPS relearn or verified the absolute throttle position is within specs then it pretty much nixes the last 2 sentences.

As for following the process, the ecu being a problem has been eliminated by multiple ecu's, ISC has been replaced, wires have been checked, so what else feeds the ECU info on when and how to switch the ISC? TPS, CPS? heck, can the IAT give any feedback? I know some diesel trucks have a high warm up idle when IAT's are below a certain temp.

 

[RadarContact]

Re: Attn MOTOGIRO: Stratoliner ISC high-idle issue (ref via TownsendFJR1300)

Gentlemen,

I'm going to apologize yet again.

In my relentless internet searches I came across something yesterday afternoon that will (hopefully) be the answer to my problems...
The Yamaha Raider has the same engine, etc. as my Strat and it turns out that the FIRST thing most Raider owners do is COMPLETELY REMOVE THE ISC VALVE! They have it down to a science I guess: disconnect the ISC plug, pull the air tubes off the TB & plug-up the TB ports with 1/4" gas line plugs, install a manual idle adjust cable from a Yami Grizzly 600 where the throttle stop screw is, warm motor set idle manually, go back and tweak the settings in the PowerCommander for 0% and 100% throttle. TPS may need adjusting in my case since I've screwed with it a few times. We'll see.

Anyway, I just don't want anyone wasting their time on my ISC issue since I am almost certain that I'm gonna bypass it completely.
I know, the ISC does have some advantages, but I live in flat Florida so temp and altitude aren't too big a deal. And I can tweak the idle if need by using the grizzly cable.

I want to thank everyone VERY VERY MUCH...you guys are super knowledgable professionals and I really appreciate every second it took to write every word in response to my problem. God speed.

// Radar //

 

[FinalImpact]

Go to fleebay, grab an FZ6/FZ1? IACV for like $7.00, route the engine coolant through it and "T" two of the ports together to feed the bigger beast. It will take care of itself as the engine temperatures changes. Just a thought. I mean why have a manual lever when this could work. Perhaps They used it one the S2 FZ1 or some larger lung water cooled beasts. IDK!

You need this and the plate that has the hoses....

The plate is in this pic with all the hoses attached!

The one big loss is when the key is shut off, the missing IAC could lead to engine run on if the idle is too high when the engine is shut off. This would not solve that either.

 

[RadarContact]

FI -- Thanks for the info, but the Strat is air cooled...no coolant. and the manual/permanent idle setting actually sounds better to me than the auto hunt/manage system. The guys who have done this basically set it while the engine is hot, then never touch it again. It's not like a choke that has to be used every time you start the bike.
They start the bike and hold the throttle fracked for 20 seconds, then ride off when they are ready. The idle can be adjusted if necessary based on environmental or temp changes (I go to Colorado on it from Florida). Otherwise never needs to be messed with.

The reason for the cable is simply because to adjust anything on the TB, you have to spend an hour disassembling the instrument panel, gas tank, and removal of the air box. Huge PITA, so the cable keeps you from doing any of that to make a micro adjustment.

Riders who've done it actually say that the idle is steadier, and acceleration from idle is crisper than with the ISC installed.

// Radar //

 

[RadarContact]

UPDATE: bypassed the ISC valve both electrically and mechanically...bike runs perfect! So after a year and hundreds of hours of troubleshooting, my solution was a $36, 45 minute workaround. Lol. Crazy!

// Radar //