Battery not charging

[heath_AU]

Hi all.

Wow - has been a troublesome few weeks for me.

One day 2 weeks ago starting up my 2007 FZ6N (daily ride) i noticed that she was just slightly hesitant to crank over cold. Just enough to notice. Still started fine so i thought not much of it but then the next day it was much more hesitant to start. Started up but wouldnt have twice. So immediately i thought i would source a new battery.


Well that same day she died on me while riding. First the engine light came on, then the dash went out (as did all lights) then so did the engine. DEAD.
At this point the battery (engine off of course) was reading just 8v at the terminals.
So i trickled charged the battery, came back and started her but she was only delivering around 11.4 V or so at the terminals (@5000rpm) so i did some testing (as suggested on the SV650 forums) to check the RR and the stator and the test seemed to suggest the RR was faulty.
So - I have just ordered one in from the states - arrives today. Looks fine. Different to original unit (just smaller - quality looks to be same if not better) and install it, after giving the battery a full trickle charge.
Now she starts up fine (which is no surprise - even after being off for 2 weeks) but at the terminals i am still only seeing 12.4v at idle and around 12.7v at around 5000rpm and above.
So now i am worried. Quite sure the test on the stator showed no loss/shorts.

And i know this may seem obvious to some but just now (doing some online reading) I am thinking if a dead/dying battery could be the culprit.
At first i thought probably not as i have only had the bike for around 26 months however then i remembered - the bike was new when i bought it and it was manufactured in 2007. So even while it was not being ridden for 2 years (i bought it in 2009) the battery was still in it and worse still - was never being started or kept alive.

I should also mention that while waiting for this RR to show up i put the battery on the charge and it seems to hold a charge fine. After resting for more than 1 hour (after charging) it was still reading close to 14v at the terminals. (no load)

So - i am ready to take her down to the local (reputable) auto-electrician/bike mech to have her looked at properly but while i arrange that i thought i would put it to you guys.

Has anyone else had a similar issue and can you offer any advice?
Really am not too keen on shelling out more cash trying to guess what this issue could be. And I really do not want to fry my new components if it does end up being the dead/dodgy battery. (and by the way is it possible to damage the RR or stator by simply having your battery die a natural death?)

Hope someone can offer me some helpful advice - I miss riding my baby so much. (and i know you all know what i mean)

HeatH 8)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you do a search, there's a way to check the stator and see if that's your problem (not much else to the system).

PM Motogiro, he can give you the specific's..

 

[heath_AU]

Yeh we did test it. A mate (diesel mechanic by trade) helped me test it (they also work on bikes a lot) said they were quite certain the stator is fine though. (will look into it some more though)

Just curious to know if a dead/dying battery could explain the low charging voltage while running. I mean i know i am due for a new battery anyway (so i may as well sort that) but surely this would not explain the <13v while running....? (anyone?)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yeh we did test it. A mate (diesel mechanic by trade) helped me test it (they also work on bikes a lot) said they were quite certain the stator is fine though. (will look into it some more though)

Just curious to know if a dead/dying battery could explain the low charging voltage while running. I mean i know i am due for a new battery anyway (so i may as well sort that) but surely this would not explain the <13v while running....? (anyone?)

It should still charge about 14 volts at 5k RPM. If you want to hook up (jump)a GOOD, 12 volt, regular car battery (NOT RUNNING) with your battery, you'll see any difference.

Checking my manual, it says to check the main fuse, then battery, then stator, then rectifier, then wiring.

BTW, When my battery was failing, voltage dropped to 8 volts when cranking and still ran fine (of course I replaced the battery after that)..

 

[heath_AU]

Well as i now have a fully charged battery (due to 2 days of trickle charging) i will brave it tomorrow to work and see how i go. That said i plan on popping into the mechanic this weekend to have him take a look or better yet properly diagnose it (rather than me taking guesses and buying a new everything)

Will post my progress here - still keen for anyone else to share any experiences

 

[greg]

it's possible for the stator to partially fail, so it won't provide enough power under load

when mine died i was able to ride around for around 200 miles before the battery got too low, as the charging system was topping it up slightly

how did you test it? if you measure the AC voltage across the 3 wires coming from the stator they should all measure around 60-90v depending on the engine rpm. You need to take 3 sets of readings, if the labels were labelled A B C, then you'd measure AB, AC and BC.

You can also measure the resistance with the bike powered off, but IMO this is a less reliable way to do it.

 

[heath_AU]

Yeh this is what i am starting to suspect.

The test was done by checking the leads at rest but as i didnt do the test myself i cant really say with any certainty what was seen

Now the bike wont run with the RR unplugged i assume so are you suggesting i just tap the wires with a sharp multimeter probe?

 

[greg]

with a charged battery the bike will certainly run with the RR unplugged, it'll only work for around 15-30mins though at a guess

 

[iSteve]

Before you go any further why not try another battery. Bad batteries are the main cause of charging faults. Every problem you describe could be a battery problem. A bike that gets driven daily would likely put more strain on a battery, especially if used for short trips. And there is a good chance after you get these problems fixed you're going to need a new battery anyway.

 

[Motogiro]

Considering the steps you've taken and your most recent status you might remove your battery and charge it completely. Take it to a place that can load test the battery. You're looking for a battery that has a static voltage of 13.1-13.2 VDC. The load test will tell you Amp Hour rating or depth of charge.
Some batteries end up sulfated, a chemical condition of the electrolyte where the battery will never come up to its voltage potential even though it's reached it's total amp hour/depth of charge. The regulator never sees a charged battery so allows the stator to overcharge an already damaged battery. Your battery may be slightly sulfated.

Always have your battery load tested when in doubt and at the start of your trouble shooting. These systems are basically a 3 part synergistic system. The battery, the charger/stator and regulator. All three need to be healthy at the same time.

Never jump your bike from a car with the engine running. This can damage your shunt regulator. You can jump from a car battery but with the engine off!

 

[heath_AU]

Hi all.

Ok - I thought i would share my learnings about this issue in the hope that i may save someone all the bull**** i have had to endure to fix this issue.

Basically the issue I had ended up being a bad earth from the R/R. I was told it was corroded and i believe this may have also contributed to the stator dying as well. The R/R is fine. I made the mistake of getting a replacement unit from ebay (around $70 AUD from the USA) which i thought was a fair price for what i hoped was a quality unit. In short, it wasnt. It had died (exploding out into the connector plug) after just 4 days of operation. (i suspect the 40c heat accelerated this outcome)

So I had it sent back to the mechanic (this was the 2nd time as i had the newly rewound stator fitted 4 days before this) and he then identified the bad earth.
He just cut the old earth (black) off and ran a new wire to the engine block.
(i am yet to take a look to see where precisely)

So before when i was getting a mere 12.1v or so under revs i now get a solid 14.1v under revs and 14.0v or so at idle.

I decided to do the smart thing and also got me a new battery too. (as the old one was around 5 years old)

Anyway - i am over the moon as i have shelled out around $600 and was without my ride for around 7 weeks in total.

Hopefully this post will save someone all the hassle i went through

HeatH 8)

 

[charlie13561]

I am having a similar issue with my 05 FZ6N, replaced the battery but its normally flat within a week or so. Got a garage to look at the charging and they claim its fine, He did mention that the connectors were a little furry but he'd cleaned them off. Today I charged the battery again and looked at the Engine control unit, it also appeared to have a little fur in it so I have cleaned up and will retest when battery fully charged again. Reading the forum I notice that it could also be the R&R, were is that situated on the bike?

 

[charlie13561]

Okay done some more testing now that I have a little time and discovered the battery is definately not charging, (meter does not show an increase in voltage with engine running and revving). So I check the Regulator & Resistor, some green corrosion on that but all cleaned now. STill no charge. Does anyone know what wires I should be testing with a meter going into the R&R to see if its thats at fault, There are 5 of them 3 from the charging circuit I believe

 

[Motogiro]

Okay done some more testing now that I have a little time and discovered the battery is definately not charging, (meter does not show an increase in voltage with engine running and revving). So I check the Regulator & Resistor, some green corrosion on that but all cleaned now. STill no charge. Does anyone know what wires I should be testing with a meter going into the R&R to see if its thats at fault, There are 5 of them 3 from the charging circuit I believe

There are three wires that come from the stator. One fairly easy test would be to test the stator's resistance with an ohm meter. There are three windings you will test. If the stator passed the resistance test and your connections are good you would think it's the regulator/rectifier.

See attached:

 

[charlie13561]

Thanks for that will check it out and let you know how it goes

 

[charlie13561]

Okay done the checks and it loks like the R&R is kaput.......replaced it with a second hand one. Sucess at last, back to some decent riding.

Thanks for your help guys, appreciate the shared knowledge.:Flash:

fully charged battery reading 12.9v, fitted with engine running shows 13.8v so looks like it is now charging correctly

 

[charlie13561]

ops, my bad post appeared twice so removed second one

 

[charlie13561]

Okay done the checks and it looks like the R&R is kaput.......replaced it with a second hand one. Sucess at last, back to some decent riding.

Battery fully charged read 12.9v, fitted with engine on got 13.8v

Thanks for your help guys, appreciate the shared knowledge.:Flash:

 

[ChevyFazer]

Motogiro is the man when it comes to this stuff!!!