Brake pads, squealing and related questions

[nthdegreeburns]

Today, I did the following...

• Bled front calipers
• Bled rear caliper
• Shot a video so other noobs can learn
• Still have the problem with the front calipers grabbing

I used a Motion Pro Hydraulic Brake Bleeder (Hydraulic Brake Bleeder | Motion Pro) to perform the bleed. I assume that I did everything right. You can judge for yourself with my demo video that, hopefully, others can use in the future...

My apologies, btw, for the video quality. I had the digicam set to the wrong quality setting.

[vimeo]67965114[/vimeo]

At the end of it all, I still have the prospect of replacing piston seals, but...

...at least I have fresh brake fluid front and back (see attached photo).

 

[FinalImpact]

Should someone pull the caliper from the banjo, I stop the fluid from leaking out of the hose by clamping a folded piece of plastic over it and blocking the holes.

You can use lids from various containers, just cut a piece into a rectangle shape, fold it over, and LIGHTLY CLAMP w/vise grips.

However, if the reservoir needs flushed, you may as well let it leak out!

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Should someone pull the caliper from the banjo, I stop the fluid from leaking out of the hose by clamping a folded piece of plastic over it and blocking the holes.

You can use lids from various containers, just cut a piece into a rectangle shape, fold it over, and LIGHTLY CLAMP w/vise grips.

However, if the reservoir needs flushed, you may as well let it leak out!

If you go back and look at the YouTube video from that Irish fella (Delboy) a few posts back, he takes the banjo and uses a coat hangar / bungee cord to keep it turned up and vertical. He notes that this is a way to keep all the fluid from leaking out and having to refill the system from dry.

I'm curious -- what IS the difference between what I did yesterday with fluid in the system vs. filling it from dry?

It's raining here today in Atlanta, so I haven't been able to get my bike over the mechanic to look things over. Giving me time to ponder doing the seals myself. :-D

nthdegreeburns

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you go back and look at the YouTube video from that Irish fella (Delboy) a few posts back, he takes the banjo and uses a coat hangar / bungee cord to keep it turned up and vertical. He notes that this is a way to keep all the fluid from leaking out and having to refill the system from dry.

I'm curious -- what IS the difference between what I did yesterday with fluid in the system vs. filling it from dry?

It's raining here today in Atlanta, so I haven't been able to get my bike over the mechanic to look things over. Giving me time to ponder doing the seals myself. :-D

nthdegreeburns

Hanging the lines higher will prevent some fluid from coming out but everything (all the rest of the fluid (ie in the MC)) will drain down to that level.

What you did was (besides changing the fluid) was to bleed any air (if there was any) in the system out.

Starting from a dry system, ALL the LINES ARE NOW FULL OF AIR. Your Motion Pro tool is not designed to bleed a completly dry system. Your pretty much doing the same thing (but not with that tool) and flushing ALL the air WE KNOW, IS IN THE DRY (bleed out) SYSTEM.

Some folks pump fluid from the bottom up (I've never done it that way and can't comment). Some have done it the old fashined way, fill the system at the MC, pump the lever, once some pressure is built up, open the nipple and let the air escape with the fluid. Starting with a dry system, this will take some time and is somewhat awkward doing this with one person.

With the vacuum pump, you connect it to the nipple, build up negative pressure, crack the nipple open, and the negative pressure pulls air/fluid into a container. Do NOT leave the nipple open without negative pressure on the system. Obviously, top off the MC as you progress. A one person job...

This is the unit I use, its rebuildable, can also apply pressure, heavy duty:

MityVac 4000 Silverline Automotive Vacuum on sale for $66.98

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Had an online chat with Partzilla.com today.

There are two pairs of obsolete caliper seal part numbers on their site for the 2007 Yamaha FZ6 (non-CA model). Per the online chat representative, this part number -- 3MA-25803-10-00 -- replaces those two different pairs of caliper seal part numbers.

Can anyone confirm? The 3MA-25803-10-00 part is $18 before shipping.

Thanks,
nthdegreeburns

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Had an online chat with Partzilla.com today.

There are two pairs of obsolete caliper seal part numbers on their site for the 2007 Yamaha FZ6 (non-CA model). Per the online chat representative, this part number -- 3MA-25803-10-00 -- replaces those two different pairs of caliper seal part numbers.

Can anyone confirm? The 3MA-25803-10-00 part is $18 before shipping.

Thanks,
nthdegreeburns

Per this OFFICIAL "Yamaha" ONLY, Yamaha web site, thats correct:

My Yamaha Prompt - Parts Catalog)

You should also need two sets of each, FOUR sets TOTAL. Look at the diagram, although you can't see it, one set of pistons is slightly smaller than the other(.25" maybe??), that's why theres a different part # for the upper vs lower seals- right and left side part #'s are the same(same calipers)

Its not unusual for Yamaha to change part #'s. I am surprised Partzilla didn't update thier website, the yamaha web site has them listed.. (Should be a total somewhere around $80 or so for all four). :thumbup:

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Before I order these seal kits today, I wanted to ask another question about my existing setup.

The HEL brake line website (dammit, y'all are getting me fired up about modding and I've not been riding but 3 months) mentioned that overfilling the MC would cause a pressure condition that prevented the pistons from retracting.

Should I try pushing the pads / pistons on the front in again, siphoning out some of that new MC fluid, and then pumping them back up BEFORE refilling the MC to see if this helps?

I'm just trying to rule out all possibilities before I go the caliper seal route.

Thanks,
nthdegreeburns

 

[FinalImpact]

Over filling although possible is not likely the cause. For most of us the bar angle/reservoir angle will prevent us from over filling.

You should just order the parts and be done with it! Although, as I mentioned, air in the lines can keep them from retracting.

The guy in the vid used rubber and pliers to grab the pistons, I'd use these:

Twist and pull..... Way better than risk of damage to the piston by griping the outside.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Before I order these seal kits today, I wanted to ask another question about my existing setup.

The HEL brake line website (dammit, y'all are getting me fired up about modding and I've not been riding but 3 months) mentioned that overfilling the MC would cause a pressure condition that prevented the pistons from retracting.

Should I try pushing the pads / pistons on the front in again, siphoning out some of that new MC fluid, and then pumping them back up BEFORE refilling the MC to see if this helps?

I'm just trying to rule out all possibilities before I go the caliper seal route.

Thanks,
nthdegreeburns

If you want to do that you can but I truly don't believe it'll make a diffference.

Heck, you can loosen/remove the bleeder screw at each caliper(or the brake line itself), (it of course will introduce air) which WILL relieve ALL the pressure, hydralic, air, etc.

If it still drags (which I strongly suspect it will), there's nothing holding the pistons applied BUT THE SEALS/corrosion inside (not likely) the caliper.

If your not riding it now, you have nothing to loose but confirm its the seals..

Good luck Mike...

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Tried to order parts today from Partzilla. They don't have the current part numbers either in their system or in stock, so I'm looking for another source that seems legit and beats a local dealership on price.

I've decided to get that mityVac and was wondering -- is there anything unique about refilling the MC if it drains when I'm taking off the calipers? I see a lot about not letting it go empty during a bleed but little about filling it back up sans air if it does go dry (e.g. Changing out brake lines or rebuilding calipers.

 

[DavesFZ]

If the MC goes empty it can/will likely introduce air into the lines and you'll have to drain the lines all the way to purge it. Other than being a time waster and a PITA, it won't make your bike explode.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It should be bit easier to bleed IF you go with SS, after market, dual brake lines. That's two lines straight doen from the MC to each caliper.

The line over the fender can be a PIA if you get a bubble stuck up in the middle of the hoop.

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Update since last post...

• Ordered the following piston seals (2 of each)
  • 3MA-25803-10-00 (Small piston)
  • 3GM-25803-10-00 (Large piston)
  • Piston seals ranged, online, from $18 and $20 to $26 and $30, respectively
  • Ordered from Ron Ayers - $86 for parts, $13 (ridiculous) for shipping
• Removed some (not all) brake fluid from the MC and pushed in the pistons sans pads again
  • Tested wheel spin this time w/ less brake fluid
  • Got 3-4 spins from front tire
  • Pumped up pistons/pads again and re-filled MC to just barely above LOWER level
  • No joy -- still grabbing

Video of my attempt to rule out too much MC fluid...

[vimeo]68351370[/vimeo]

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just a few tips when (if you) get ready to dissassemble.

Remove the pads, calipers still installed. Pump the brakes (keeping all the pistons equally coming out, same distance-for both right and left sides). You should be able to just about, if not get them to the disc itself.

Make note of the real sticky ones and eventually pop that one(s) out first. Once all are extended, remove the calipers to work on them on the bench.

Note: I haven't done this (as I have an air compressor) however, its been discussed in another thread and should work as long as you get all the pistons about equally out of the caliper. Have a very wet large towel, should a piston come out early to immediatly get the brake fluid off of everything.


Second tip, get two (one for each caliper line) large mouth plastic drink(or similar) bottles. Drill a small hole thru the top threads and put a zip tie thru it.

Once the brake lines are off the caliper, fluid is going to come out and make a big mess quick (keep the MC cap on to slow down the fluid at this point).

Stick the end of the brake line in the drink bottle and zip tie, rope tie, etc, to the bike/forks and it'll drain neatly into that container and make it not quit so messy. Wipe up any brake fluid splatter quickly with the wet towel..

 

[nthdegreeburns]

A minor update...

Those seals I ordered from Ron Ayers? Yeah...

 

[DavesFZ]

A minor update...

Those seals I ordered from Ron Ayers? Yeah...

That sucks. Its only a 6 hour drive, you could be back by midnight...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A minor update...

Those seals I ordered from Ron Ayers? Yeah...

Jeez, if you didn't have bad luck you wouldn't have any...

I'd call them ASAP and see WTF??

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Another update...

FINALLY received my parts for the calipers...

View attachment 48815

I forgot to order an air compressor (looking at 6 gallon Porter Cable), so I'll do that today and plan on working on this project over the weekend.

Cheers,
Nthdegreeburns

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Excellent!

Just a quick tip, below are pic's of the air blower with a rubber sleeve cut at an an angle (to add to the tip of your blower) for getting into the buried orifices to blow out each piston (once the caliper is off)

**Put a rag just opposite where the piston your working on will exit. With enough PSI, IT CAN/WILL spit out hard, and do watch your fingers, its really easy to get them pinched when that piston does indeed release..

You make have to play with the cut on the rubber tip some to get just the right seal but with 130+ PSI, each piston will come out...

Installation will be MUCH EASIER. Just some brake fluid on the seals/piston, make sure the piston is straight and push in, maybe a slight turning motion too. If its super tight (having issues), put just a very light layer of the pink grease on the leading edge of the seal, it'll slide in easier.

Last note, make sure you DON'T get the old seals mixed up with the new ones, maybe old seals on the left, new on the right or just don't remove from the package until ready to install. (I could not tell the difference by either looking or feeling a new seal next to an old one).

:thumbup:

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Just last night realized that the shop manual states that all brake hose related washers around the banjos (e.g. 7, including the one to the MC, if I were unhooking that) need to be replaced whenever the calipers are removed.

Yea or nay? No local shops open around today, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to finally do this if I need to get those washers.

Thanks,
nthdegreeburns