Broken my gears :-(

[AdamFZ]

Haven't had a chance to work on it today, was sleeping and am back at work now.

I'm going to start work on it tomorrow and start with removing the headers and oil pan. Looking in the Haynes manual, it would seem you can see a small amount of the gears once the oil pan is removed.

I will also look into removing the clutch and see if i can get the input shaft and gears out. I might even just drop the engine out... doesn't look that difficult and I've removed more complex engines before.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you can, lotsa pictures please of anything pertinent. :thumbup:

 

[AdamFZ]

If you can, lotsa pictures please of anything pertinent. :thumbup:

Ohhhh don't worry, there will be :thumbup:

 

[AdamFZ]

Well today I've managed to spend about 4 hours on it.... I've decided to remove the engine as it'll be easier and ALL 8 of the header bolts and nuts have snapped off !!! Thought that might happen given how rusty they were. Its pretty much ready to come out but i can not for the life of me get the header pipe to come apart from the cat... if anyone has any suggestions... please tell me !!! I even managed to snap the mounting bracket of the exhaust !!!

I'll let the pictures do the talking...

 

[dpaul007]

Ohhh man that looks like fun

 

[Chickenz]

Wow!

That's a lot of pics. How are you planning on getting the bolts out? Those eaziout things or welding new heads on if there is space?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Adam, I'm assuming, in the LAST PICTURE, you have the bolt out of that bracket in the far lower right (looks like a bracket sticking out)?

With all header bolts out of the way and that joint (the header and cat) cleaned up, if you have a set of torches, some heat and penetrationg oil should loosen up that joint. Having a steel bar going all the way across with a helper pushing downward, hammering the steel pipe downward should loosen the seal to remove the header. Also, if you can get the header clear of the studs, IF THERES ROOM, twist the entire header to the left and hopefully break that seal loose at the cat..

As for the header bolts, if you have access to a MIG WELDER, (and the engines already out, get some nuts snug over the broken studs. Some plug welds over the nuts and broke studs and twist out while still warm (apply some penetrating oil after a couple of smacks with a light hammer on the end) should zip them out..

Looks like it'll be out soon, great job and good luck.

 

[yamihoe]

Take your time! I realize there is a TON of corrosion on that bike but that's alot of broken bolts! Get like 6 cans of WD40 or PB and just soak the whole bike down, like Scott said use torches and gentle heat with a persuader to help things along!

 

[FinalImpact]

Right ON! Way TO DIG IN!!!
As said, soak it and soak it some more! Heat and time will get those apart. I would encourage you put the side covers back and clean it such that when you get to the case halves no added dirt falls inside.

Do you have the FSM? It should be pretty helpful about now. Do you have a way to hold the bike up?

Thanks for sharing all the pictures and you have an audience!

 

[AdamFZ]

Another busy day. Got the engine out once i had removed the header pipes. Took the header and cat out together. I then popped some covers back on and gave the engine a clean with degreaser. Then started the strip down....

I removed the oil pan and although i could see the gears, i couldn't see any signs of damage so i thought it's best to split the case. Once split, i could remove the output shaft and gears and see in the input shaft and gears.

Despite all this, i can not see ANY signs of damage !! There are no chunks or pieces of metal in the oil pan or pick up, no missing teeth... nothing !

More pics....

 

[yamihoe]

ok heres a THEORY!!! just throwin it out there.....


the gears are all pressed onto the shaft and im assuming they are held with a pin of some sort.??

well, when you slammed it into 2nd or 3rd (cant remember) the gear could have spun on the shaft? make sense to anyone? and now it can possibly be spinning on the shaft while riding, and im assuming it would feel as if the clutch is slipping ever so slightly.. only in that gear, which you didnt jump on it when in that gear because of the horrible screeching noise.....so you might not have been able to "feel" the "slip"

again, just a thought.

 

[AdamFZ]

Thanks yamihoe but the gears are not pressed onto the shafts. I've already stripped down the output shaft and gears.... Just need to get the input shaft out and strip it down.

 

[LERecords]

holy awesome engine porn!!! thanks for the pictures!!

 

[BamBam]

holy awesome engine porn!!! thanks for the pictures!!

+1 on that!

And to the OP, great idea numbering the cardboard for the bolts!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Great job and even better photo's, thanks..

You do really fast/good work form what I see. Hopefully the damage is on the other shaft, you got the really hard part done.

Heck, the shop doesn't work as quick as you do...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Another busy day. Got the engine out once i had removed the header pipes. Took the header and cat out together. I then popped some covers back on and gave the engine a clean with degreaser. Then started the strip down....

I removed the oil pan and although i could see the gears, i couldn't see any signs of damage so i thought it's best to split the case. Once split, i could remove the output shaft and gears and see in the input shaft and gears.

Despite all this, i can not see ANY signs of damage !! There are no chunks or pieces of metal in the oil pan or pick up, no missing teeth... nothing !

More pics....

SECOND PICTURE from the end, it looks like the gear in your picture (It would be gear #31 in the parts fisch, its designed with the big holes thru it) on the sprocket shaft, all the way to the left, has a chip in one of the teeth (at the top)??

Also, the SAME GEAR, about a third of the way down, that gear looks cracked or something, maybe just the lighting?

I think its the same gear, in the picture above the "Bolt holder" carboard, it appears to be two cracks, right at the base of teeth, again, about 1/3 of the gear apart from each other...

 

[yamihoe]

if they arent pressed on and not held in by a pin then how do they turn the output shaft?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

if they arent pressed on and not held in by a pin then how do they turn the output shaft?

Their splined shafts:

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2005 FZ6 - FZ6ST TRANSMISSION Diagram

Way back (and maybe now) pressed on gears were the norm (plus sliding gears of course). I did many a transmission ie, 2nd gear and second gear idler on my old Yamaha 2 stroke YZ125 (one was pressed on) when I stripped some teeth coming off a jump. Back then, the cases split side to side. You put the transmission, shifter cog, forks, etc in one side of the cases, then slipped over the other side..

Adam, you likely already know and will be looking for it as well but peek at the splines themselves on both the shafts and gears. I've seen an HD aluminum drive (front) pully strip out on the "sprocket shaft".

Steel on steel, I dunno...

 

[FinalImpact]

Scott I don't see what you see as far as cracks - but i'm in laptop mode. I also do not think it stripped the splines from the shafts or gears.

That leaves this and I hint at this from the first few posts: It sounds like two gears are rubbing either from a burr, the linkage is bent, or a shift fork is bent making two gears touch ever so slightly.

The shift drum should have no play side to side. The forks should keep the gears centered between the adjacent gears when all in "N".

That leaves 1 other notion which I'll rapidly dismiss. One of the shafts is no longer flat. << Not likely as it would make noise in all gears.

With it together, put it in the gear that makes the noise and check the relationship of the adjacent gears for contact on their thrust surfaces/clutch dogs. As far as gear numbering; from the OUTPUT shaft, The Largest OD gear is 1st (its also wider for strength i.e. takes added abuse of LAUNCHING Bike). The next smaller OD gear is second, and so on up to 6th which is the smallest on the output shaft. Look the shift forks over for stress marks, bends, or new wear. Look the gear thrust surfaces over for any small burr like on clutch dog that might be touching the adjacent gear!!!

Rep point coming your way for Boldy moving forward inside! Good Job Adam!

 

[AdamFZ]

TownsendsFJR1300, Thank you but that's just the flash making it look like that. I've double checked and no cracks or chips.

I'm having a mare of time getting the torx screws out holding the input shaft and bearings in.... They are punched to secure them but i can't lift the little flap so i tried drilling it off but again no luck. I'm starting to round them off if i try anymore and that will leave me 1 option... drill them out ! Anyone have suggestions ?